now you see Tiff was 'drifting' the E30; that's all 4 wheels

[orangecurry]

just getting the back end out isn't drifting.

(onslaught please....)

[Zayyan]

Eh?

You're wrong.

[Zayyan]

"Drifting refers to the difference in slip angle between the front and rear tyres of a car. When the rear wheels are slipping at a greater angle than the front wheels, the car is drifting, or oversteering. The rear end of the car appears to chase the front end around a turn, while the front tyres control the actual direction of the car."

[Chaos]

just getting the back end out isn't drifting.

(onslaught please....)

spot on

[Chaos]

"Drifting refers to the difference in slip angle between the front and rear tyres of a car. When the rear wheels are slipping at a greater angle than the front wheels, the car is drifting, or oversteering. The rear end of the car appears to chase the front end around a turn, while the front tyres control the actual direction of the car."

thats sliding

a drift is sposed to be all 4 wheels

[Zayyan]

Show me a definition.

[orangecurry]

well Vicky just said '...and the M5 managed the longest power slide...'

so losing the back end will be sliding then

[agent006]

Powerslides are what seems to have become this craze of "drifting". I.e. who can hold the largest angle sideways for longest.

A 4 wheel drift is what drifting traditionally is. Where all 4 wheels are sliding slightly. It's the fastest way round a corner in a car with no downforce. It's also a lot harder than the modern concept of drifting. See any old 1950s grand prix footage for examples.

A friend of mine does the modern drifting thing and it's a great laugh, and very hard to do well. A good 4 wheel drift is just that little bit harder though.

[orangecurry]

and there we have an excellent definition from someone who knows what they are talking about.....

so let's have no more 'how many of you drift all the time' posts

[orangecurry]

A good 4 wheel drift is just that little bit harder though.

oh but hang on - 4 wheel drifting is MUCH harder than a powerslide come on

[Zayyan]

A 4 wheel drift is what drifting traditionally is.

Surely this indicates that the meaning has changed?

I refer you back to the (recent) encyclopedia entry I posted.

[orangecurry]

as I think you said Zayyan so brilliantly

pffft

drifting is drifting, and sliding is sliding

[Zayyan]

Surely if a car is losing grip on all 4 wheels it's sliding?

[Jhonno]

no because the car ends up 'drifting' across the road

[orangecurry]

Zayyan - I just found your definition (using Google) and it is from an American site, and we all know they don't speak english well, or use the correct words for the correct objects

fanny
fortnight
ass
beer (they think Budweiser is beer)
etc etc

[orangecurry]

Fall - Autumn
almost everything on a car
Christmas - Holidays

erm... anyone?

[Martinaston]

Aluminium - Aloominum
John - BOG

[astondg]

I think the more contempary "drifting" is more just sliding the rear as in a powerslide it usually involves getting a car sideways before a corner using a scanenavian flick, the handbrake, clutch kick maybe, or something similar and the holding that slide into, through, and out of the corner. A powerslide is usually just using the power to slide out of the corner (usually from the apex or maybe just slightly before). Which is why I said in the other thread that I don't drift on public roads because that requires me to be very committed and makes it very hard to back out if things change. Sometimes I get a powerslide happening, which is I think what people mean now when they "drift", but only when no-one is around and I think I can do it safely.

There is also the Drift Bible which I think is considered one of the best how to drift guides by someone who knows quite a bit about drifting (and driving in general). Near the begining when he is showing the types of drifting a powerslide is one of the things he does.

A 4 wheel drift has been called that for as long as I can remember and I saw the term in a magazine from about 1970. Being called a 4 wheel drift makes me think that there are other types of drifts as well.

I do believe that the 4 wheel drifts that they had to do in the earlier days of racing are the ultimate form and the hardest BUT I do think that a lot of the reason they had to drive like that was because of less advanced cars and especially tyres. Things have come a long way and cars don't want to do that sort of thing anymore, I think it might actually require a car that is setup for that to do it properly now.

BUT I am all for the old style of 4 wheel drifts, lets all drive around in 1960's F1 cars . Oh and I mean that seriously, please someone give me a 1960's Ferrari F1 car!

EDIT: I think some of the rally drivers also get into 4 wheel drifts, AWD cars seem to be good at them.

Aston

[Karan]

drifting is ANY movement against the pointing direction of the 4 wheels of a car.

this could include back end sliding or all 4........

NB....4 wheel drifting in a 4WD car is fcukin easy and my grandma could do it

[Conan]

you been waiting 3 days to say that?

[orangecurry]

it was probably Karan who got the Website fixed, JUST so he could get that in.....

'against the pointing direction of the 4 wheels of a car....'

does just turning a corner count then?

[Conan]

[zaust]

it was probably Karan who got the Website fixed, JUST so he could get that in.....

'against the pointing direction of the 4 wheels of a car....'

does just turning a corner count then?

if the back comes out and you can then hold it at an angle for a while
(not just a flick) it count's..

[hoshy]

As Aston says. proper drifting is getting the car sideways before the corner.

[Karan]

As Aston says. proper drifting is getting the car sideways before the corner.

drifting is holding a slide////

if u can get it sideways before the corner..... u r skilled

[stoic]

I've done all that but I called it crashing.

[Conan]

good call Stoic

[kam-325i]

Ok, here is the spanner in the works......

When 4 wheel drifting. why does the car NOT carry on in a straight line ?

Does the law of physics not have a law covering this ?

If all 4 wheels are slipping, how is the constant change of direction achieved to get around the corner ?

When all 4 wheels loose traction, would the car not continue on in a straight line corressponding to the moment of traction loss ?

[orangecurry]

no spanner there

when a wheel is sliding, you still have the effect of the momentum of the car PLUS the force exerted by the driven wheel - hence the car travels at an angle

[kam-325i]

But how can a slipping wheel have drive ?

[orangecurry]

eh?

are you havin' me on?

s'pose you spin your wheels from zero - does the car just sit there, smokin', forever?
No - grip overcomes the inertia of the car.

[kam-325i]

eh?

are you havin' me on?

s'pose you spin your wheels from zero - does the car just sit there, smokin', forever?
No - friction overcomes the inertia of the mass.

So all 4 wheels are not slipping then ?

My point was that a "Proper" drift cannot have all 4 wheels slipping. there must be some traction/grip to cause the change of direction to get around the corner.

Mass of car gonig left, rear wheels providing foward momentum(sp), causing a deviation in the otherwise linear path of the cars mass.

[orangecurry]

a 'proper' drift has all 4 wheels slipping.

If the lateral force on a tyre/wheel/axle/whatever is greater than the grip exerted, the wheel will slip sideways - it's as simple as that

the wheel might be being driven or it might not - if not you are simply going round a corner too fast for the grip available - e.g. understeer if just the front, oversteer if just the rear.

ok?

[JimmyC]

In simplest terms a 4 wheel drift is the optimum way to take a corner

The car will corner with all wheels straight, the turn is controlled by the throttle.

As said above it is implemented with slip angles- it is a "4 wheel drift" full name! so it is not the only kind of drift

i have a definition on my ards vid somewhere but cant be arsed to dig it out- sorry

[orangecurry]

an ards video - wow... video hadn't been invented when I took mine