M3 vs 190E

Post Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:04 am

Great post. Do love 190s. would love to buy one but theyr all bloody autos

Post Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:06 am

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-Benz ... 1c261b5dbd

no there not verde

Post Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:08 am

Used the same box as the e30 m3

Post Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:19 am

Apparently the auto's the one you want?

Post Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:11 pm

wondered that myself, people say the auto ? yet its a sporty type car surely manual be better ? and able to hold it in 2nd,3rd for longer, drop it down to whatever you want when you want,etc ? , im not sure i would like an auto

im pondering a 190e cosworth 2.3 myself, could be my next car

seems a bit off they compare a 2.3 with an me evo, not a standard m3 ? and there was an evo 190e aswell...why not get that in against the evo m3 ?

, but whats the jist of what hes actualy saying ? as i have no sound on my laptop

Post Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:59 pm

hit up youtube with this vid: NSVjcrTkmds

just try not to blink @4:45 !!

Post Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:40 pm

[youtube][/youtube]

Tubeway Army

(Are Friends Electric strangely, not Cars)

excellent link Barclay

Post Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:15 pm

cool vid , id go for manual dogleg box if i were to ever get one

Post Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:47 pm

Cheers Adi.. what a fine combo hey? gary numan and 80's DTM

where did I place that time machine

Post Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:57 am

The 190 is the cooler car...?..... Typical yank. That guy is a joker

190's are cool but in no way better than the m3 sorry

Post Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:10 pm

in DTM dressup, the 190 is the cooler looking imo

Post Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:47 pm

hi i am lucky enough to own both cars the m3 for me all day long

Post Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:23 pm

snakebrain wrote:Apparently the auto's the one you want?

No way..... General rule for all Mercs is to stick with an auto, as MB cant make manual gearboxes and their cars are more suited to autos...

But the Cosworth was the only exception to that rule, the high revving engine demands a manual to get the best out of it.... and the gearbox in the cosworth is of course made by Getrag....

Values in 190E Cosworths reflects this and manuals generally command more money...

Post Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:28 pm

polsta wrote: seems a bit off they compare a 2.3 with an me evo, not a standard m3 ? and there was an evo 190e aswell...why not get that in against the evo m3 ?

Must have been down to availability...

Evo1 190E was a great car but the Evo2 190E was totally insane and commands serious money...

Post Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:43 pm

so anyone got any tips/advice for buying one and what to really look for thats more specific to the 190 as oppoosed to the average things

theres 2 im planning on looking at this week , im going for it

Post Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:11 pm

main thing is rust....

Front wings...

Rear jacking points, in front of the rear wheels, are known to rust..

See if you can remove the plastic boot trims situated in each boot well (each side)

Rear quarters rust and the Cosowrth plastic wheel arches can hide it pretty well... So have a feel around...

Lumpy idle can be down to valve clearances being out..

Bad starting can be down to cold start valve..

Make sure the ASD (traction) light works, many have the bulb taken out...

Make sure the rear Self leveling rear suspenion is working and the shocks are not leaking fluid, if its not already been binned for some Billies....

Doorcards will almost certainly have lifted at the tops and the lap timer will have almost certianly have bled, but not the end of the world there....

Post Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:36 pm

Im not lucky (or rich enough) to own a cossie but my 190 (2.0 auto) is such a nice car to own, they are nice to drive and seriously over engineered. Mine is by no means a particularly quick car but its a pleasure to drive.

Polsta, if your seriously looking i would recommend joining the 190 forum and look to buy a members car, these guys are as fanatical about their 190's as we are about E30's.

http://mercedes-190.co.uk/index/

One further point, you can pretty much still get almost any part for the 190 from the steelers new...some parts take a week or so from germany but the parts supply is as good as main dealer bmw.

happy hunting.

Post Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:04 pm

e30-dk wrote:The 190 is the cooler car...?..... Typical yank. That guy is a joker

190's are cool but in no way better than the m3 sorry

The yank is right, The 190 is indeed a cooler car !

Cooler does not necessarily mean it is better looking/faster/more valuable/worthier etc. It just means it is cooler.

M3s are now expensive, they are now often owned by c0cks who in between w4nking furiously over old DTM videos and telling everyone how valueable there rusty old D plate snotter is are very sad individuals.

The 190 is much more underground and you need to be a real enthusiast to own and run one.
The 190s cool status is under threat though, polsta is on the hunt

Post Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:42 am

Low_E30 wrote:main thing is rust....

Front wings...

Rear jacking points, in front of the rear wheels, are known to rust..

See if you can remove the plastic boot trims situated in each boot well (each side)

Rear quarters rust and the Cosowrth plastic wheel arches can hide it pretty well... So have a feel around...

Lumpy idle can be down to valve clearances being out..

Bad starting can be down to cold start valve..

Make sure the ASD (traction) light works, many have the bulb taken out...

Make sure the rear Self leveling rear suspenion is working and the shocks are not leaking fluid, if its not already been binned for some Billies....

Doorcards will almost certainly have lifted at the tops and the lap timer will have almost certianly have bled, but not the end of the world there....

thanks mate,very helpful

ive heard about the cold starting, and also get it up to temp and have a bit of a drive,and see if it then ticks over nicley with no cutting out

how do i check the ASD LIGHT ? how do i engage it, and what if it doesnt work ? how important is it ?

what i dont want...is one that needs paint and rust and messing about with the body, want something i can drive and enjoy and maybe just tinker and make nicer bold on bits etc, doesnt have to be the most amazing one out there, but a nice enough one with scope to work on improving

one ive been speaking about, was going to see this weekend, hes now saying it has a missfire and is in bits investigating it, and turns out it also has no history with it bar the v5, but in speaking to him it sounds nice other than that and he sounds like an honest guy, and price reflects the above so im not really sure what to do, i may go see it for a nosey and a drive, if they fix it, if not for anything just to get a feel for them and sit in and drive one

Post Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:46 am

aimlessrock wrote:
Polsta, if your seriously looking i would recommend joining the 190 forum and look to buy a members car, these guys are as fanatical about their 190's as we are about E30's.

http://mercedes-190.co.uk/index/

happy hunting.

thanks mate, its a car thats been in my mind for a while and on the cars to own list, thanks for that link il give it a good look, theres a good buyers guide on there too ive just seen, nice one

what sort of prices do they fetch on there ? i dont really want to spend top money and buy the best example, as these can fetch -10 grand asking prices ive seen, yet some nice enough looking ones go for 2-4k , which is my sort of range im looking at, seen a fair few sell in ebay etc between 2-3 grand that ive thought that looks nice

Post Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:04 pm

polsta wrote:
how do i check the ASD LIGHT ? how do i engage it, and what if it doesnt work ? how important is it ?

When you turn the key to the ignition and all the lights on the binnacle light up.... ensure that the light that says 'ASD' in the row of warning lights comes on. Additionally the warning triangle ASD light in the middle of the speedo clock should come on also.... Once the car is started all lights including these two should go out...

To engage the warning triangle light, its simply a case losing traction of the rear wheels

.... This will ensure that the system is in full working order and you can enjoy the benefits of the electronic rear diff that can lock up all the way to 100%....

Post Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:08 pm

Low_E30 wrote:
polsta wrote:
how do i check the ASD LIGHT ? how do i engage it, and what if it doesnt work ? how important is it ?
When you turn the key to the ignition and all the lights on the binnacle light up.... ensure that the light that says 'ASD' in the row of warning lights comes on. Additionally the warning triangle ASD light in the middle of the speedo clock should come on also.... Once the car is started all lights including these two should go out...

To engage the warning triangle light, its simply a case losing traction of the rear wheels .... This will ensure that the system is in full working order and you can enjoy the benefits of the electronic rear diff that can lock up all the way to 100%....

thanks mate, il make a note of all this and print it out, take a mate with me who knows his cars very well he can check this sort of thing, so what if it doesnt work ? is it a walk away job or what ?

thats wheree with things to check on cars it becomes grey areas knowing what are walk away things or not , with things like this when they dont work /are not right

Post Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:14 pm

polsta wrote:
aimlessrock wrote:
Polsta, if your seriously looking i would recommend joining the 190 forum and look to buy a members car, these guys are as fanatical about their 190's as we are about E30's.

http://mercedes-190.co.uk/index/

happy hunting.

thanks mate, its a car thats been in my mind for a while and on the cars to own list, thanks for that link il give it a good look, theres a good buyers guide on there too ive just seen, nice one

what sort of prices do they fetch on there ? i dont really want to spend top money and buy the best example, as these can fetch -10 grand asking prices ive seen, yet some nice enough looking ones go for 2-4k , which is my sort of range im looking at, seen a fair few sell in ebay etc between 2-3 grand that ive thought that looks nice

3-4 K should buy you a nise example, if your can't afford a cossie (they can be dear to run) the best one i would go for is either the 2.6 petrol, which is a supurb drive if not a little juicy, or the 2.5 diesel, avoid the 2.0 diesel as they are underpowered.

I would also avoid the manuals as the boxes whilst good are not that good. A well maintained slush box will go on for ever...i actually met a guy on the 190 forum who drives his merc to Turkey twice a year and it had close to 500,000 miles on ....and was still going..

Post Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:32 pm

500k

i need to drive some, id buy a nice normal sort or one or a sportline , but ideally want a cossie 2.3 , im not sure id like an auto long term, ideally need to drive both, all just depends what comes up really, im in no rush at all so just have to see what comes up and go see local ones that pop up, trouble is when you see further afield ones that are too far to just go view, you have to sort of be sure and want it if its all as described and nice and go to buy

i thought the 2,3 cossie as it would make a nice car to pair with my tech 1, and use as a more daily car and most of the year, what sort of mpg would a 2.3 cossie return vs say a 2.6 petrol like you say ? would the 2.6 be more guzzly ? (i dont want a diesel) , even a 1.8 or 2.0 would do me if a really nice and cheap non cossie model, seen some nice 190es like that for the 800-1200 range,some with cossie kit , so would concider

Post Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:03 pm

Rich320I wrote:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-Benz ... 1c261b5dbd

no there not verde

Oooof, I couldnt afford that shit or to insure. Poverty spec 190 would probably be all I could get. Gotta be maual. Iv got a habbit of drifting off whilst driving mums scooby, its an auto. Its just so boring, plus expensive if the box goes and they mince through benzine

Post Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:16 pm

I had a 1987 E-reg 190E 2-litre manual, in gloss black, with Zender bodykit and AMG alloys - a proper "Hood's motor", as my dad called it!

This was borne out when I removed the door trims to find a tide-mark of mud going half-way up the inside; it had obviously had a gangland-style murky dunking in some estuary somewhere...

I found the gearchange a little odd at first, it feels clumsy and baulky, but you just need to allow the spring-loaded gearchange to do its thing and not try to force it, then it's not too bad.

A very tough, well engineered car, and very comfy on long motorway hauls. People tend to move out of your way quickly when they see a black Merc in the rear view mirror too!

It would do around 30 mpg on average, so not an expensive car to run either.

Post Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:21 pm

polsta wrote:
Low_E30 wrote:
polsta wrote:
how do i check the ASD LIGHT ? how do i engage it, and what if it doesnt work ? how important is it ?
When you turn the key to the ignition and all the lights on the binnacle light up.... ensure that the light that says 'ASD' in the row of warning lights comes on. Additionally the warning triangle ASD light in the middle of the speedo clock should come on also.... Once the car is started all lights including these two should go out...

To engage the warning triangle light, its simply a case losing traction of the rear wheels .... This will ensure that the system is in full working order and you can enjoy the benefits of the electronic rear diff that can lock up all the way to 100%....
thanks mate, il make a note of all this and print it out, take a mate with me who knows his cars very well he can check this sort of thing, so what if it doesnt work ? is it a walk away job or what ?

thats wheree with things to check on cars it becomes grey areas knowing what are walk away things or not , with things like this when they dont work /are not right

Could be something simple like OVP relay or could be something more costly, either way it s a tool to haggle...

2k will get you something thats on its last legs with rust and mechanical isues, 3-4K will net you somehing tidy and a good basis for a decent project...

Spend a abit more now and you will save money, time and heartache in the long run putting things right....

Post Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:32 pm

i fully agree mate

just from merly observing them on ebay over last 6 months on and off and looking for local ones and watching prices, what ive seen.. the ones like the 5 grand one linked above/ones polished up sold by dealers/traders for top money, look and sound nice, but dont seem to sell, i dont think ive seen one on an "auction" with bidding, go for over 4 grand

those ones on auction sold by a private owner, tend to stick around the 1800-2.5 k - 3k range, and all "look" fairly decent from pics alone , so im sure theres bargains to be had, ie if see a local one listed like that, check it out, and do a cash deal or if hes letting it run, maybe get a bargain that youve alrewady checked out

and i bet amidst them ones, you could pay 2-3k and have one thats as nice as one being asked 4.5-5k from a dealer, so i think id rather try that market/approach with one of these, than pay top money from a dealer, but thats just my observation

Post Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:49 pm

make sure and have a poke around the rear windscreen as they rot like mad there and as said abobe get the plastic arch liners in the boot out as they rot like hell there too,my cossie was one of the best cars i have ever owned,great cars get one,ill have another one at somepoint,ive also been looking at getting one as a daily

Post Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:28 pm

Heres mine, 3 previous owners, 24 main dealer stamps iirc, dogleg manual, half leather, almandine red, bog standard right down to the Becker stereo.......

Post Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:31 pm

Low_E30 wrote:

Heres mine, 3 previous owners, 24 main dealer stamps iirc, dogleg manual, half leather, almandine red, bog standard right down to the Becker stereo.......

Like it

Post Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:33 pm

Here's Senna's one:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mercedes/6 ... newsletter

Post Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:29 am

there are two models 1 is the 190e 2.3-16 and the other is 2.5-16

Post Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:38 am

Low_E30 wrote:main thing is rust....

Front wings...

Rear jacking points, in front of the rear wheels, are known to rust..

See if you can remove the plastic boot trims situated in each boot well (each side)

Rear quarters rust and the Cosowrth plastic wheel arches can hide it pretty well... So have a feel around...

Lumpy idle can be down to valve clearances being out..

Bad starting can be down to cold start valve..

Make sure the ASD (traction) light works, many have the bulb taken out...

Make sure the rear Self leveling rear suspenion is working and the shocks are not leaking fluid, if its not already been binned for some Billies....

Doorcards will almost certainly have lifted at the tops and the lap timer will have almost certianly have bled, but not the end of the world there....

You forgot to mention the battery tray area as these are known to rust out on the 190's