Engine Sale comeback from buyer. Advice please.

[capri_rob]

Just thought I'd put this out there following an unpleasant phone call this afternoon.

Back in Marc/April time I sold the engine & gearbox from the Bronzit to a guy from Stoke on Trent for £200.

He also bought some other ancillary bits - Rad/Cooling system/Hoses and a few other bits and pieces for about another £100.

A few months ago he contacted me to check which gaskets had been replaced as the engine was leaking oil - I re-confirmed with him that the gaskets I'd replaced were the rocker cover and throttle body gasket both with genuine parts - this was on the FS ad.

I've just had a 20 minute argument with the guy who is now saying that he has only just put the engine in the car after having all the bodywork done and its "knocking".

I'm at a loss as to what to do :
1) as anyone who saw the bronzit car thread will know the reason the car was scrapped was rot. Mechanically the engine had never had any problems in the 3 Years I owned it.

2) The guy has had it for months. I didnt offer any sort of guarantee as as far as I was concerned the engine was good - why would I have sold it otherwise ?

3) On the FS ad there was a youtube video of the engine running prior to being removed from the car - no knocking sound can be heard.

The guy is saying the youtube vid could have been taken at anytime but its clear in the ad that there is no bonnet on the car or lights in ( as I was midway through stripping it )



Anyone who knows me and has dealt with me on sales or purchases knows that I'm fair and I would never knowingly sell anything that wasnt as described

I don't have a number for the guy, don't know his Zone username so can't get back in touch with him as he witheld his number when he called me.

He clearly wants money off me but I don't really see why I sould give him anything as far as I was concerned the engine was all good when I had it, at £200 for the engine and box it was cheap ( What its cost him in transport and fitting isnt down to me ) and he's had it for months.
He's saying I can go and see it in the car and that will prove that it hasnt been used since he bought it as the car has only just come out of the paintshop but again I've only got his word for that and I can't be bothered to spend hours on a return trip to Stoke to see something that doesnt prove anything.



I'm not a trader - I broke a rotten but mechanically good car and sold the bits.
Me paying him any money now is an admission of guilt which I'm not prepared to make - but he's talking about paying to have the engine removed and taken to a specialist to prove that its "fooked". I can't really be arsed with any of that - should I stick by my guns and say no, make a token gesture of some sort of compensation, or offer a refund ? At the end of the day its my word against his - I have no physical proof that the 133k 22 Year old engine and gearbox he bought off me for £200 were mechanically perfect - other than that it wasnt "knocking" when it was removed from the car. His response is that as the car hasnt been anywhere I must have known it was fooked when I sold it to him.

All input welcome - if the guy is reading this let me have your number/contact details once I've got a few opinions and if the general consensus is that I need to pay you something we'll sort it out.

[youtube][/youtube]

[Jhonno]

Sold as seen.


\Thread.

[kieran325]

As above^

[bab-91]

Sold as seen anything could of happened when he was transporting ... storing it.

Trying his luck, forget him!

[E30BeemerLad]

All comes with the risks of buying an old donk as far as I'm concerned. It's always a roll of the dice.

I bought the M50 from a zoner, it had done the headgasket and a coilpack was down. I got on with it (after some whinging), rebuilt it but still wasn't happy so sold it onto Dez for his 3ltr project and bought the 328i to rape.

Just done an engine swap on the wife's golf, bought the engine unseen, came on a pallet from the Isle of Wight, since fitting it I have had to replace the starter motor, crank sensor and buy another ECU just to get it to start/run.

[zaust]

Same as above. If it was the next day fine and understandable. Months later forget it.

[Morat]

Sold as seen.

[shedrool83]

I personally would stick to my guns.

When i sell a lump i try to leave it in the car for as long as poss so a buyer can come and hear it running .If it sells after its been removed its sold as seen(as Jhonno said above)

Not saying it has but the engine may have been fitted for months,just fitted and ragged,ran with no oil who know what the engine has been doing since you sold it.(apart from the buyer)

[andyp]

Same as above. If it was the next day fine and understandable. Months later forget it.

spot on comment.

[craigieeb]

Sounds like the the tappets need adjusting, going by the vid you posted,
That's doesn't warrant a refund IMO

[capri_rob]

Good.

Thanks for the advice people - I thought I was right to stick by my guns but after the conversation I had with the guy went round in circles for 20 minutes I was beginning to doubt myself

At the end of the day the car was being scrapped - anything I didnt consider resellable was left on it - If I'd known the engine was fooked I definately wouldnt have gone to all the aggro of pulling it out of the car for the sake of £200 and potential aggro after sale !

[Grrrmachine]

it's a couple of hundred for an engine, that he let sit around for more than half a year, and now he's getting narky? Some people have a lot of cheek.

You're a human, not IKEA.

[hongkongfuey]

this isnt like a set of wheels which might be buckled that you may/may not have had balenced before getting rid of,

you would know if the engine was on its way out , you sold this 8ish months ago, no one gives that sort on guarantee second hand bits, its normally 30 days

if the engine has been sat around for that long, you have to ask, did it have oil in it? who fitted it? has he screemed the hell out of it from cold?

also i see he asked months back what gasket were done as it was leaking oil, but then it says he has only just put the engine in?

you also said "He's saying I can go and see it in the car and that will prove that it hasnt been used since he bought it as the car has only just come out of the paintshop"

i think he has buggered the engine in one way or another and is trying a fast one.

let him know if he contacts you again that its obviously down to him , and it was months ago , you will not be giving him anything ,ask him not to contact you again , conversation closed

but as said it has to be "Sold as seen" and its been too long to now complain.

[leeparkes]

All comes with the risks of buying an old donk as far as I'm concerned. It's always a roll of the dice.

This.

[fuzzy]

tell him to get fooked.

[Kedge]

Tell him to f*ck off Rob!

Any fully licensed breaker would, at most offer a 90day gaurentee on an enginer and i dare say that's only on something fairly new, i doubt they'd offer more than a 30day on an old M20. If you don't get that engine in and running in that time and find something wrong then tough luck, they wouldn't be interested.

In this case you've done all you can to show the engine was fine when selling the engine and never implied there was a gaurentee. Buyer needs to stop being a prick and do one!

Things like this are what makes me hate selling engines, i almost demand the buyer to come see it running in the car before selling it.

[suchy]

Sold as seen- end of! Absolutely zero comeback months later.

The risks associated with buying 'blind' on a £200 engine.
Anything could have been done- drained of oil and left for months outside, or no oil on refit and run dry etc etc.

Absolutely not your problem now. If you did sell him a donkey, it's on your conscience but seller cannot do anything about it.

By being agressive/arsey about it stinks of eBay/Paypal refund tactics, especially if there's a travel distance involved...

Who's the Zoner in question, maybe someone close could go take a listen/look? Could be genuine trouble with engine (but not your problem still) or he could be pulling a fast one?

[capri_rob]

The guy mentioned the zone in our original dealings and on the phone today but I don't know his username and as he witheld his number when he called me I have no way of getting hold of him even if I wanted to.

**EDIT - just been through my old emails and I think his ebay username is azza53 - his location is right and he was the last one to contact me via ebay asking for my contact details**

He kept on about Jason at the E30 centre in walsall and Nigel at moseley motorsport in Telford- neither of which I know personally but it was Moseley motorsport he was on about taking the engine to so they can pull it to bits and find out wahts wrong with it.

My consicence is clear - the engine as far as I knew was all good - apart from the usual m20 top end tick there were no other noises hat shouldnt have been there, why the car was scrapped was obvious, the youtube vid was taken hours before the engine was removed and as far as I'm concerned he could have done anything to that engine in the 8 months he's had it.

Thanks for the responses

[suchy]

Who would take a second hand £200 engine to a motorsport garage for them to strip apart and diagnose a problem on it eh??? Seriously??

Comments like that lead me toward scammer theory

[hongkongfuey]

good luck to him taking it to a garage, thats what £50+ per hr, how long for an engine strip? and parts to put back together?

you know you sold an engine that wasnt fubard, end of, have a nice christmas

[capri_rob]

Who would take a second hand £200 engine to a motorsport garage for them to strip apart and diagnose a problem on it eh??? Seriously??

Comments like that lead me toward scammer theory

I think he though keep namedropping and I'd back down.

He seems to think that because he spent about £300 with me plus whatever it cost him to hire the van to pickup the engine and fuel to me and back that I owe him something

Another way of looking at it - At the end of the day whats a quiet 325i Gearbox worth ? - £50 maybe ? so out of the £200 he paid for the engine & Box the engine was £150 - there was more than £150 worth of genuine parts fitted in the last 12 months I had it where it did less than 1000 miles - KWP water pump, genuine cambelt and tensioner, genuine rocker gasket, NGK plugs, Quality Semi Synth Oil, Genuine BMW oil filter and probably more that I can't remember - all of which were detailed on the FS ad - so the engine was virtually free !

[leeparkes]

Tell him to lob some of this in to quieten it down a bit.

[MOODY]

the guy who has got the engine is a zoner too think his id is azza, and he has been having a e30 restored, he purchased the engine a few months back fair does, either he buys it today or few months back the engine is knackerd, its been fitted by a local garage, as you only sold the block for 200 and i told the guy you were a zoner he expected a good engine, the engine start up fine and sound good and probs the same in the vid but it knocks from bottom end now and again and its heavy sound, the bottom end will neva knock just like that, but im not a mechanic and cant really say,
either way its sold to a zoner and its no good need be sorted, its not about the money either its trust of a fellow zoner,
ive heard and seen the car its not been driven either, the body still need building up,
think about it why would he just say its knocking???????

[fuzzy]

no one else can know for sure what the engine was really like when sold but if i knew hand on heart that something was fine when i sold it i wouldnt entertain them. especially as its a cheap engine from a breaker. if someone wants guaranteed top quality they need to be looking at stuff with a price to reflect that.

[pnd]

i have sympathy for both parties but at the end of the day it was a second hand £200 engine and you take a risk with all second hand parts. I have had a far worse experience recently but I know i will have to take it on the chin and won't even ask for money back as i believe it was sold in good faith.

[sweep]

Rob i have sold many engines/parts.i always 99% of the time leave the engine in the car for them to hear,in your case a video which is fair enough, i have just sold a 2.8 m30 engine using a video on my mates phone as i couldnt leave it in the car as i needed to scrap/weigh the car in.i never offer a waranty as i state to the customer this is a 20 year old engine! they've only got to fit it and not bleed the coolant properly and hay presto the head gasket/heads cracked! selling parts for these cars really gets yuou down sometimes its easier to sell internall organs (possibly)

[AZZA]

hi all
i purchased the block and gearbox for 200 and 100 for rad and hoses alt,
i had to buy a ecu and power steering pump and other bits from else were its all mounted up so its not cheap!!!!!!!!!!
either way i want my money back, as i purchased in good will from a zoner,
ive even told rob to come and view the car and see for himself, ive got nothing to hide,
just want some justice

[bss325i]

Who fitted the engine, you or someone else?

How does rob know that it was fitted correctly?

Someone may have done something retarded like not putting oil in it before starting it or leaving an oil filter loose etc etc.

[mattycoops43]

WTF? Goodwill? Justice?

Try words like 'Eight' and 'Months'.

Sympathy if there is something gone wrong, but engines don't like to be sat for months on end without being run, especially with hoses etc undone, letting air and water moisture in to rust things on the inside, and electrical connections to corrode.

Sorry, but a s/h engine is not something you would ever expect over 6 months warranty on, 30 days possibly from a professional car breakers, but not from a bloke somewhere stripping to sell. Time to move on I think and not turn this into some big aggro argument thread. read the previous comments, NO ONE thinks you have a case.

Oh, ps Mr Moody- " but im not a mechanic and cant really say, " So why are you talking then? Sorry, but it gets my goat people commenting as if they have all the answers, when they have no clue!

[adit]

i had a bad experience with my Baur.
the original engine had seized so i bought a replacement through ebay. i commandeered my mate into going up to Somerset to pick the engine up.
a couple of weeks later, after i had fitted it, it p155ed out oil and ran hot, useless!
despite being mis-described, it was bought c.o.c. with only a verbal guarantee. there was nothing i could really do about it
(not suggesting that your engine was bad when sold btw Rob)

[sweep]

I have sold plenty of m20's even with 190k on them and the bottom ends just dont knock unless some drift monkey has hold of them.

[magpie]

just want some justice

ooooH,

[BEERBOY123]

I can't see this standing up in court. You bought an old mechanical item as seen several months ago. You've just got round to trying it out, and now you're unhappy. Bit late innit? Honest John would tell you to get real.

[adit]

i had to buy a ecu and power steering pump and other bits from else were its all mounted up so its not cheap!!!!!!!!!!

of what relevance is that?

[Jhonno]

I bought an S50 conversion 'package' that I never heard running.. The engine was fooked, the MAF no good, and the diff wrong. I can guarantee I was much worse off than buying an old M20, but due to time passing had to deal with it. Get me justice.

There is a video of it running.. Sounding fine. Bought as seen, end of. A breaker wouldn't entertain you, and you'd have paid much more for the engine.