Shite and Turds

[sideshowbob]

For those of you who are followers of the Zone, there is a bit of a debate going on regarding the Zone and the BMW Car Club. The essence of this seems to be that some Zoners see the E30 as a potential classic car and would like more integration of the model into the BMW CC while others on the Zone while appreciating the worthiness of the E30 see the BMW CC as something to be avoided as they feel they will be looked down on.
There are then members on the Zone while appreciating the qualities of the E30 refer to them as 'shite' and 'turds' and enjoy 'fragging' them.
As a member of the BMW CC and a follower of the Zone and occassional contributor I find this 'language' and attitude somewhat counter productive to the development of the E30 as a future classic and I can see that this sort of attitude will not endear Zoners to the BMW CC.
Does anyone else feel like this on the Zone, nothing would please me more than to see my 325i convertible appreciate in value and become the classic that I think it deseves, but while Zoners frag their shitty turds I think my dream will be a long time coming

[polsta]

i tend to agree with some of that, the turd thing i never quite liked, and seems like there is such a fragging culture, but depand for the parts and the ££ to be made, people should think about it a bit more really, some of the half decent cars picured and posted and the "if it doesnt sell for xamount within a week im fragging it" culture, is a bit discgraceful reeally

some models will be classics, cabbys, sports, hartge, alpina, etc

look at some of the selling prices low milage decent ones sell for, good e30s have no problem selling for good money...

[Ilkorin]

It's all supply and demand though isn't it... soon we'll start running out of breakers and the ones that are left will be worth more whole. There will come a time where you'd earn less breaking a car than selling it whole as an E30 'shell' becomes more desirable and I guess that will be the day when the car becomes a true classic.

I always thought turd was more of an indication of the condition of the car...and in many cases it's a pretty good description... I'd say one of my cars is a turd, the other is not.

[capri_rob]

I can see both sides to this being a regular poster on here and a BMWCC member.

I affectionately refer to my Touring as a Turd. It is. Its not some minty concourse garage queen with mirrors underneath and is probably always going to be a bit rough around the edges. However if I can get it to a condition where everything works, it passes the MOT without advisories and looks generally presentable I'll be very happy.

I have also fragged my last E30 - this enabled me to buy the touring and fund most of the new bits it needed - and also taught me a massive amount about how the E30 is screwed together - very useful.

Much of the language used on the zone is just banter and makes the zone an entertaining place to spend time - the BMWCC forum is dead in comparison.

I don't have a problem with BMWCC though - the mag is great, discounts etc are all good and the work that daimlerman is now putting in will definately push things in the right direction with better E30 representation within the club.

The E30 is moving towards classic status anyway - every one that is fragged is one less on the roads and makes remaining ones rarer - thus pushing the E30 further towards "Classic" status.
Not referring to them as Turds won't do anything to get the E30 to classic status any quicker.

[Grrrmachine]

The status of the E30 as a future classic is inevitable; it was a style icon when new, and will therefore continue into the future. Cars that were dull on their introduction (like the Renault 9) will always be dull, and therefore will never achieve classic status.

However, being a classic and being valuable are two different things. As Clarkson pointed out on top gear last week, there's ONE left of some poxy '70s tin driving around. Is it a classic? Definitely. Is it worth anything? No. Supply and demand is that basic. If there's too much supply, the price will be low. If there's no demand, price will be low. At the moment, and for the next five years, E30s will continue to have both a high supply and a low demand, so they won't be worth anything.

Versions which were rare when new, like the Alpinas and M3s, or constantly desirable models like cabrios, will always hold their value, but unless a saloon has racing provenance or is utterly OEM, it will never be worth anything.

Unfortunately for the E30, unlike other cars in the BMW stable, it was very popular with modifiers, either playing with the engine or the setup, or with aesthetic modifications like wheels and paintjobs. E24s in comparison were never played around with in that way, and are therefore treated as more "serious" cars by clubs and collectors.

While the E30 remains numerous, it will continue to attract all sorts of owners from OEM homos to wideboy tuners, and I don't see anything wrong with that. And as long as the "fraggers" keep tearing apart "snotters", "turds", "rotters" and other "shite" to supply parts for other E30s, then diverse forums like the Zone will survive, which is far more important than approval from such a limited club as the BMWCC. If we ever want the E30 to become a serious classic, we need the fraggers to get the shitters of the road, and then you can have the exclusivity that BMWCC members crave.

[DanThe]

So you think the zone is holding you and your future classic back? You didnt really need to tell us about your CC membership did you

Until all of these 'shitty turds' are either gone or repaired properly the E30 will never be a classic, have you thought about that?

'Attitudes' and 'language' dont make cars classics, and until all these low life scummers have scrapped their shite I suppose E30's will always be associated with us peasants

[polsta]

At the moment, and for the next five years, E30s will continue to have both a high supply and a low demand, so they won't be worth anything.

have to dissagree, e30s arnt the cheapest of cars now ! 2k+ for a nice 2 door for a 20 year old car, isnt cheap, up to 4/5k for nice ones, a few is`s have sold in the 2-3k range this year, that red 316 for 4k recently

how many posters are there looking for nice ones ? takes a long time and constant looking to find a "nice" sport these days, m3 prices are sky high and rapidly growing out of reach of most people, the next bracket cars will soon start to rise in price and stature even more maybe when those look to them models thinking 15k for a 25 year old m3 ..

also have to look at prices of other 80s and early 90s cars..what else is as sought after/as big a following as the e30? ok theres quite a lot of e30s about due to the long production times, but with each sport thats too far rotten to repair and broken and each base type that fragged for parts and scrapped...it pushes the e30s further towards rarety for nice ones etc

bmw are still well made cars, look at old fords etc of same era, now they were rust buckets compared, metal is metal and any car will rust over time, e30s arnt that bad and have done well really

anyway- who really cares too much what a car will be worth or how rare in 10 years, drive and enjoy them !!

[Grrrmachine]

You've quoted one part without reading the rest, it seems.

Versions which were rare when new, like the Alpinas and M3s, or constantly desirable models like cabrios, will always hold their value, but unless a saloon has racing provenance or is utterly OEM, it will never be worth anything.

So yes, I agree, M3's will command high prices in the classic market, but only because they cost a lot more when new too. As for an E30 costing over 2k, that will only be a 325; a 316 will never command that money, in the same way a 1.6 Capri even in mint condition won't go much over a grand, while the 3.0 or 2.8 can, and often do, reach silly money.

Other cars of that era, like the Audi Quattro, Golf GTI and Escort XR3i are all capable of selling for much much more than an E30, while their mechanically mundane versions still sell for just a few hundred pounds. It's the best of the best of any model that appreciate in value, and if you'd like to prove me wrong, show me someone paying 4k for a moredoor 1.8 E30

[suchy]

E30's aren't even close to being classic status so don't hold your breath!! We cherish them on here that's all
We are just an owners club, NOT a classic car owners club.
I agree there are some 'collectable' models among our range but not in the real world of collectable cars- ok the M3 has a motorsport heritage so these are desirable.
As others have pointed out already, it'll take a few years to remove most of the peasant/trash/rat/murdered out scrap out there and the boring lower spec/engine/base models to be fragged for profit before the remaining models to even have a hope of being 'classic'.

So don't all pat yourselves on the back for owning a slice of motoring prestige, just enjoy ownership of a nice boxy bad handling crap fuel economy 20yr old car while you still can before legislation outlaws them.

All this "we don't approve etc" from snooty BMWCC bores can just stay on their own dull forum, talking dull, being dull, and leave us peasant trash owners to banter on here and have a laugh together talking a load of cr*p

[Dezzy]

We all call our cars turds. It's meant as a "joke" or a "wind up". My car is called a turd. It's far from it btw.

No wonder the cc isn't well thought of among some zoners. A sense of humour is a requirement to enjoy zone banter.

Everyone stop saying bad things about our cars and they will become the next big thing over night......


Ffs

[Jim320i]

I dont see what the issue is here, they're all turds... Even Dezzy's... Especially Dezzy's. I seen it in Turd weekly.

[suchy]

God, you two get a room will ya

[Dezzy]

I dont see what the issue is here, they're all turds... Even Dezzy's... Especially Dezzy's. I seen it in Turd weekly.

Ffs Jim think of the value!

[Jim320i]

We could be Rich!


Sorry to the Op - Like Dezzy said. Its all banter on the zone. The word Turd is just a reference to our cars... It could be a M3 barn find in mint condition and it would still be called a Turd by most on here.

I think, when the BMW CC is ready to accept us throwbacks, they'll let us know... Until then, don't sell your cars as you wont be Rich!

[polsta]

You've quoted one part without reading the rest, it seems.

As for an E30 costing over 2k, that will only be a 325; a 316 will never command that money, in the same way a 1.6 Capri even in mint condition won't go much over a grand, while the 3.0 or 2.8 can, and often do, reach silly money.

Other cars of that era, like the Audi Quattro, Golf GTI and Escort XR3i are all capable of selling for much much more than an E30, while their mechanically mundane versions still sell for just a few hundred pounds. It's the best of the best of any model that appreciate in value, and if you'd like to prove me wrong, show me someone paying 4k for a moredoor 1.8 E30

more doors dont really count on any car like escorts and e30s etc, but bet some very nice top 4 doors have fetched good money

im sorry, but dont really think you know the market here !! plenty of e30s sell for over 2k, e30 sport prices/ series 1 rs turbos,/rs1600i , are in the same sort of bracket now, obviously variations on prices of all depending on condition with both having cars in the 3-4k range and 4-5k for really top examples, xr3 etc sell for the same as e30s not loads more, you can pick up base model e30s for £400 as same as mk3 escorts, nice example base model mk3 escorts now fetch a £1000+

and finaly with regard to your 316 comment- a 316i with standard engine etc in stunning condition sold for the £3995 asking price about a month ago, search the threads on here, ok we know most wont fetch that, but very very nice e30s of all models can fetch good money here

not just 325i at all that go for more than 2k

[scott180gtb]

They are all Turds

One good idea for increasing value and image would be to level Birmingham.

[Dezzy]

They are all Turds

One good idea for increasing value and image would be to level Birmingham.

Sounds great to me mate. F uck to do with E30's either.

[beemerbird]

E30s are a victim of their own success. The sold huge numbers when they were in production, and certainly in the UK it was a boom time for many, so the latest BMW 3 series would have definitely have been on the shopping list.

Add to that the fact they are an absolute hoot to drive, you now find yourself with large numbers of high mileage cars who will have attracted not particularly attentive care over the years.

Very few with original cloth interiors are without seat damage. The subtle E30 ICE install will have been augmented on huge numbers, etc, etc.

There may be a point when all the shitty ones have been loaded onto a container bound for China, but the pure fun of E30 ownership will more likely mean that they get passed on and on to newer and younger owners to rag the ar8e off.

[Cotty]

There are then members on the Zone while appreciating the qualities of the E30 refer to them as 'shite' and 'turds' and enjoy 'fragging' them.
As a member of the BMW CC and a follower of the Zone and occassional contributor I find this 'language' and attitude somewhat counter productive to the development of the E30 as a future classic and I can see that this sort of attitude will not endear Zoners to the BMW CC.

Do you really think the rest of the world will be swayed by the terms expressed by one UK forum dedicated to the E30? They will look at the car and based on its merits or not be passed into the heady hights of classic status.

[pacerpete]

The only good turd is a sold / weighed turd !

[DHFiS]

Some models if unmolested with go on to have a future and might appreciate in value if the price of fuel, insurance and road tax stay affordable.

I cant see a 316/318 ever becoming a desirable investment even if mint - people will always say 'shame its not a 325'.

For yours to go up in value you need people to 'frag their shitty turds' and leave nothing but the rarities. There are still too many around at the moment.

[johnl320]

I don't think my 2 even qualify for 'turd' status.

[Duke137]

The only good turd is a sold / weighed turd !

Might have known you'd be there with a witty comment about a weighed in turd

[pacerpete]

Some models if unmolested with go on to have a future and might appreciate in value if the price of fuel, insurance and road tax stay affordable.

I cant see a 316/318 ever becoming a desirable investment even if mint - people will always say 'shame its not a 325'.

For yours to go up in value you need people to 'frag their shitty turds' and leave nothing but the rarities. There are still too many around at the moment.

There may still be plenty of E30s around BUT there are very few good ones. The values of anything low mileage and nice are already going one way.
Rampant rust and the ever increasing cost / difficulty of dragging a sad turd through an MOT are already doing a good job of removing most of the rubbish from the roads.
As the numbers dwindle the values will continue to increase as will the price of rare tasty morsels

[mercdriver]

e30's are an icon and are a classic. Just because we don't wear tweed and call a bath a barrrth and its a garage / shed not a garaaaaaarrrge. Toffs know fack all, they've just got a bigger wallet than me! I dont need no education - I don't need no thought control!

BMW CC - LEAVE ZONERS ALONE!

[beemerbird]

e30's are an icon and are a classic. Just because we don't wear tweed and call a bath a barrrth and its a garage / shed not a garaaaaaarrrge. Toffs know fack all, they've just got a bigger wallet than me! I dont need no education - I don't need no fault control!

BMW CC - LEAVE ZONERS ALONE!

Fault control?

Thought control, my good chap

Stop being silly, BTW

[mercdriver]

i'm too young for that song, i'll edit...

not being silly i didnt think

[Duke137]

i'm too young for that song, i'll edit...

not being silly i didnt think

You need 'fault control' in that fooking barge you drive ....

[mercdriver]

can it shite stain in ur peasant e36 snotter - ahaaa grassed u up! He's a betrayer to all e30 fans

[clipper]

people will always say 'shame its not a 325'.

And if it is a 325 they'll just say "shame its not an M3".....

Closest comparisson I think is the Lancia Delta. Standard models are arguably nice looking, but old and uneconomical cars that will, more than likely all end in the scrappy at some point. whereas the motorsport versions are really different cars in a class apart and can't really be compared.

That said, I like my chromie and try to keep it 99% standard and I am a member of an official BMW classic car club.....

[e30topless]

, nothing would please me more than to see my 325i convertible appreciate in value and become the classic that I think it deseves,

unless your car is a limited edition ie M'sport cabby /breathed on by alpina ect, then you will be waiting a long time, 325i cabs were produced in millions, plenty of good examples are still around and can be bought for peanuts,

but while Zoners frag their shitty turds I think my dream will be a long time coming

hopefully if more people frag cabs your turd may go up in value ?

[Green]

So basically, if we all drive turds around we're devaluing e30's.. turd form or not?

[DanThe]

Surely its about more than just what the turds are worth? If thats what it all comes down to then you need to get a life IMO

[e30kev]

Surely its about more than just what the turds are worth? If thats what it all comes down to then you need to get a life IMO

couldnt agree more mate

[gooner1]

Surely its about more than just what the turds are worth? If thats what it all comes down to then you need to get a life IMO

Succinctly put Dan, succinctly put.

I know i would never get back , financially, what i've put into
my Cab but for me it ain't about the money, money, money.
To coin a phrase