325 tds

[m8782538]

Has anyone droped an E36 325tds lump into an E30? just wondering what the power and torque would be like in my 2dr?

should be much better mpg and more power/ torque, but is it going to be real bugger to source and fit?

[m8782538]

or is it 324tds, i can't remember basically the E36 diesel lump.

[Blitz]

There not that economical and and savings in fuel cost would be wiped out in trying to convert it. And its a diesel.

[mattrs]

I heard the 36 d lump was better on derv than the 34 lump, coupled with a lighter chassis I would think that driven like a snail you could easily get 50+mpg. I would think that it would be more torquey than a m20 petrol, probably no more power though!

Surely its worth exploring!

[m8782538]

As new i think it was 168bhp and over 200lbs of torque, pop that in an E30 and it should be quite good, plus they are easily and cheaply tuned. only downside i suppose is the weight and its not a light lump.

I assume then that this has not been tried before then?

[Blitz]

It has 143BHP and 192 ft-lb of torque.

[mattrs]

Iirc a m20 2.5 is 170bhp and 2ltr 120??


Not sure about torque?

[m8782538]

may have to consider the conversion depending on the cost, lump etc won't cost much, just the labour. i do easily 350miles a week, backroads and also urban so diesel would be ideal. Luckily my 2dr is an M10 316i so shouldn't be too bad on fuel but diesel will be better.

[mattrs]

what does the 316 average?

[m8782538]

I say M10 316i, Its a German import 1756 M10 Injection 316i, same a 318i but slightly less power. 99bhp instead of 105bhp i think.

I am hoping for 35mpg buti do 350miles a week so its going to cost quite a bit.

[damageandyy]

arnt they all fly by wire throttle? making the conversion just abit harder having to modify the pedal box.

[e301988325i]

LPG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[THEHOOD]

LPG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+1 worth doing

[mattrs]

would a lpg conversion be cheaper than a diesel engine conversion?

Which would be cheaper to run?

If the op's 316 does 35mpg on unleaded what will it do on gas? 25-28?

[m8782538]

diesel i can use the same fuel tank, just need to clean the system, LPG means i loose boot space when i need it for my sons pushchair etc.

Would have to be a spare wheel well LPG tank and fill via the tank, don't what a filler on the bodywork. plus LPG is about 70p a litre here and surely having diesel works out cheaper overall, whats the cost of a good LPG setup?

[m8782538]

I can get a sequential LPG system for £799 which estimates i will save £861 in fuel so it would pay for itself within the first year. but i am still more keen on going diesel, no idea why, just never driven an LPG car before, just weiry i guess.

Whats an LPG car like to drive? you have a fuel guage and switches etc and i have no idea where they could be fitted in my E30.

[Morat]

http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/savings_calculator.php

A full drive in/drive out commercial LPG setup is about £1300 from various places.

[mattycoops43]

Drives exactly the same as petrol, I ran V8 rangies on it for years. The only downside I can see is that the price of LPG is gradually getting nearer to the price of petrol, it used to be 38p where I live and now it's 70p plus! and were not talking about more then 2 1/2 years ago.

No dials and gauges, just a small matchbox size unit that can mount under the dash somewhere so yo can see it. Spare wheel tanks are more expensive so push up the price of a conversion by a couple of hundred.

[Morat]

I can get a sequential LPG system for £799 which estimates i will save £861 in fuel so it would pay for itself within the first year. but i am still more keen on going diesel, no idea why, just never driven an LPG car before, just weiry i guess.

Whats an LPG car like to drive? you have a fuel guage and switches etc and i have no idea where they could be fitted in my E30.

My wife is the same, doesn't like the idea of LPG. She can't say why.

[Brianmoooore]

Possible to do a DIY LPG installation for around £200, using mainly selected second hand parts.
The difference in price between petrol/diesel and LPG is greater than it has ever been, and similarly, the savings per mile are greater than they have ever been.
LPG is by far the safest fuel for any vehicle. 60 litres of highly volatile liquid in a thin plastic tank that easily ruptures and leaves you surrounded by the stuff, or a very difficult to ignite liquid in a bomb proof steel container, whose contents will quickly blow away in the breeze if it did somehow leak?

[mattrs]

A 2500cc will be much quicker than a 1600cc petrol!

Do lpg conversions make petrol engines lose a little power when using the gas?

[m8782538]

mine is really a 1.8 not a 1.6 but mine is the lower powered 1766 M10 Injection so its classed as a 316i, was registered as that from new in germany and also registered as 316i here.

I have heard that you can loose a small amount of power on lpg, but you can always switch it off and use petrol if you want i suppose.

[m8782538]

the £799 setup i found take around 2 days, drop off in the morning and collect the following afternoon.

I wouldn't pay over £k for it, i would need a full propper install with spare wheel tank for no more than about £850.00 all in, all fitted, warrantied and certified.

Probably going to go down the diesel route in the end. i can get a lump for about £300, add on the extra cost for the other parts required and it will probably work out cheaper.

[Grrrmachine]

changing out the engine and pipework for a diesel setup introduces a whole new level of unknowns to your car. Can you trust the engine, the new wiring, the new fuel lines? Are you sure you can get the tank out and clean and back in with no issues? Will the extra hundred kilos you're lugging around, and the higher cost of diesel, be offset by the slightly better mpg of the project, plus the cost of all the work, parts, and declaring to your insurer that you've substantially changed the car?

In contrast, a mixer, a relay, a switch and a donut tank, running in tandem with your original engine and fuel setup, is a piece of cake. It's a much smaller ballache to install, and much cheaper to run. Petrol to diesel is a fool's errand, IMHO.

[m8782538]

if an lpg conversion all in with a doughnut tank is over £850, i can't do it simple. I can do a diesel conversion for less than that, warrantied lump and all other parts from the same car, fuel lines will need to be custom (copper pipe, nice and easy)etc but shouldn't be too difficult.

Insurance wise shouldn't make too much difference really, upgrade the brakes and suspension for the increase in weight and performance and shouldn't cost most than the donor car to insure. As a rule you insurance goes upto the same level as the donor car. E36 325tds are not that high on the insurance scale.

[hongkongfuey]

isnt there a 318 diesel? that would be cheaper?

[George]

IME E30s + economy does not mix.

You'll have to do a fair amount of miles before you see a 'return' on your investment. How many miles do you drive per year?

Diesel conversion would be time consuming and a lot of bother. LPG is more sensible.

Tbh mate, for £800 you can buy an old school diesel Pugeot or equivalent and save yourself the bother.

[m8782538]

Got my E30 for free and its going to be my daily driver my mileage can vary from 250miles a week upto about 500. I use it for business use, don't get a car allowance, just 45p per mile.

average i suppose about 15k-18k miles a year

[mattrs]

IME E30s + economy does not mix.

You'll have to do a fair amount of miles before you see a 'return' on your investment. How many miles do you drive per year?

Diesel conversion would be time consuming and a lot of bother. LPG is more sensible.

Tbh mate, for £800 you can buy an old school diesel Pugeot or equivalent and save yourself the bother.

He wants his cake and eat it!

[Grrrmachine]

70p a litre, 24miles per gallon, LPG would cost £1986 to do 15k miles.

£1.40 a litre, 35 miles per gallon, diesel would cost £2724 to do 15k miles.

And that's if you get 35mpg. If it's only 30mpg, it'll be £3178.

I've done the maths so that you don't have to. In the for sale section is an LPG kit (minus tank) for £60. Still want to go down the diesel route?

[e301988325i]

Sulphur is an EP (Extreme Pressure) lubricant and the E36's pump is designed to run on this, oh hold on the government took all the sulphur out of diesel. The pumps don't last, I bought my second E36 325TDS, a touring this time, just having had a refurbed pump at £1500, 50K later it's starting to let go again.

When you're cruising in an E30 with a 325 TDS, it will be under such light load that it will take ages for the turbo to wake up when you want it to go.

If you did convert you would expect 40mpg, they're just not that economical, my LPG'd 325i does 40-45mpg equivalent driven hard everywhere.

See my install here, good pictures of the switch installed neatly.

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... 62&start=0

[Brianmoooore]

Possible to do a DIY LPG installation for around £200, using mainly selected second hand parts.

[bigmace2004]

have been reading you thread e301988325i and brianmoooores comments,

i have a 318is, i am interested in adding LPG but my dad says it knackers cylinder heads, which is putting me off.

He said a friend who used to do conversions packed it in as so many customers were coming back with problems to valves i think, was not really listening.

Any info about problems, longevity etc?

Would like to buy a new kit or at least the important safety bits as i am a bit paranoid about gas, fitted a refillable LPG system 'gas low' to my camper van but not sure i could do wiring etc, how much all in getting someone to fit a decent system?

Where to look, i.e. companies?

Cheers

[Brianmoooore]

Any info about problems, longevity etc?

I have a M50 engine in daily use which has covered 228,000 miles; at least 150,000 of those on LPG, another M50 in daily use that has covered at least half of its 160,000 miles on LPG, and the red touring in my sig. covered at least 100,000 of its total mileage burning LPG.
LPG has no lubricating properties, and burns slightly hotter than LPG, so, if you are daft enough to but something like a F*rd, or an offering from certain other manufacturers, where accountants have dictated that the materials used for the valves and their seats are downgraded to save the last possible 0.1p in costs, then you may have trouble, but, as long as you have the white and blue roundel on your bonnet, you will not.
The majority of engine wear in a petrol engine takes place when the engine is started from cold, as excess fuel has to be injected to keep enough fuel from condensing back to a liquid to keep the engine running. This excess fuel ends up washing the oil film off of the cylinder bore walls, which results in ring and bore wear. LPG requires no cold start enrichment, and does not wash away oil films.
Petrol (and especially diseasal engines) heavily contaminate their oil with all sorts of corrosive combustion by products. The oil from a LPG powered engine is much less contaminated, and will be drained from the sump at a service, the same golden colour as it was when it went in.
If you want your BMW engine to last, run it on LPG.

Paranoid about gas? You think 60 litres of highly volatile petrol in a thin (often rusty) steel can is safe? In the most horrific crash imaginable, the one part that can be guaranteed to survive will be the LPG tank.
The most basic LPG set ups don't actually have any wiring, apart from a simple switch to stop the petrol flow and to switch on the gas flow.

[mattrs]

Personaly I think an decent e36 d lump in an e30 driven very sensibly on a run would average 50 mpg especialy with a well matched diff and wheel size!