Re Shell Advice

[scott180gtb]

Can anyone advise me on re-shelling my sport. I'm looking at a clean 320 tommorrow that has a very clean shell. If I transfer all my sports bit on to the clean shell, what do I need to do with regard to re-registering the car? Can I keep my sport log book and claim/inform the dvla that it has been re shelled, or do I have to keep the log book of the 320?

[Kos]

if you are planning on transfering the ID then technically its going to be a ringer.

you can only legitimately re shell with a new shell and papers to prove.


you have 2 options,

1 keep the log book as a 320i, and have all the paperwork from your original car but the car will always be a 320i with sport bits

2, with the donor car, change the chassis number which is located on the scuttle and in chassis plate on the front pannel. re paint the car to the original sports colour and hey presto you have ringer, HOWEVER whe chaging the chassis number use your original sport log book to purchase a complete scuttle and replace it all. do not just stitch it in, replace it properly.

[daimlerman]

What you will end up with is a 320 with 'sport' bits added on.
DVLA will require to see an invoice for the engine swap for starters,or a letter from the supplier of the engine,on headed notepaper no less,stating it's exact capacity,number and fuel type...
A car's identity is all in the number stamped into the scuttle panel....
And on a small rivetted tag plate over the o/s headlight...

[Kos]

i dont even thing the DVLA will entertain it, just do it and keep quiet lol

or invest the money to re build / repair your existng original shell.

[scott180gtb]

O.k. in real terms does re shelling have an effect on the value of the car. Is a rusty restored sport worth more than a clean original 320 converted to a sport? Is this a stupid question because it depends on your own individual point of view!

[Cloggy Saint]

What you will end up with is a 320 with 'sport' bits added on.

Isn't that exactly what a sport is anyway? An E30 shell with sport bits added on?

[scott180gtb]

The only thing left in the sport is the engine. The rot is quite serious. I'm thinking that it would be much cheaper in the long run to swop over all the parts into a clean shell. The price of all the new panels plus paint is about three times as much as re-shelling!

[zaust]

When I re-shelled, I transferd all the bit's and as above got a headed note saying engine swapped from car ### to car ### and a that was it. however I swapped in to a 325 auto shell so it was easy to make manual. But to change the car from a 320 to a 325 you will need to take the car to a bmw dealer when the work has been completed and get a letter from them to confirm the Model change or it will always be a 2494cc 320.

[Kos]

O.k. in real terms does re shelling have an effect on the value of the car. Is a rusty restored sport worth more than a clean original 320 converted to a sport? Is this a stupid question because it depends on your own individual point of view!

the car will be 320i, no matter what you do to it.

a restored car is still a sport and if its a documented rebuild then its worh doing.

is what a few members here have done, like beardymatt and simon13

[daimlerman]

The value of a 'sport' is the V5c with the magic word on it!
A 320i with 'sport' bits is worth the sum of it's parts.
Your main problem is that new shells are NLA,so the only option is the method outlined by Kos.
Up to you to decide on the morality of the issue!

[Kos]

When I re-shelled, I transferd all the bit's and as above got a headed note saying engine swapped from car ### to car ### and a that was it. however I swapped in to a 325 auto shell so it was easy to make manual. But to change the car from a 320 to a 325 you will need to take the car to a bmw dealer when the work has been completed and get a letter from them to confirm the Model change or it will always be a 2494cc 320.

in english ?

unless you change the chassis number over from your sport to the 320i , you are left with a 320i with sport bits.

if you move the chassis number over then you are creating a ringer. i'm sure its not allowed because you are removeing one ID from a car and replacing it with an other

[Blitz]

What kind of rust has it got?

[Kos]

What you will end up with is a 320 with 'sport' bits added on.

Isn't that exactly what a sport is anyway? An E30 shell with sport bits added on?

yes but they are worth more

[schnaarf]

When I re-shelled, I transferd all the bit's and as above got a headed note saying engine swapped from car ### to car ### and a that was it. however I swapped in to a 325 auto shell so it was easy to make manual. But to change the car from a 320 to a 325 you will need to take the car to a bmw dealer when the work has been completed and get a letter from them to confirm the Model change or it will always be a 2494cc 320.

How would I go about getting a headed note if I transferred an engine from a 325 to another 325?

[zaust]

Not all sport's have sport on the v5, You can only tell by going into the bmw site and checking with the vin.


And Jamie if you are friendly with someone at a garage and they are willing then ask.

[Kos]

ignore that, if you are doing an engine swop "engineers reports" are not really needed these days. they were required in the past by insurance companies and the DVLA, i've not been asked for one for the last swop i had done

you're just replacing like for like, so just advise dvla of a change in engine number

[Nay]

Either way mate, record everything you do. Keep all documents, photo all the changes and so on. So when selling time comes, you've done the work, you know the score and you can say that it is just a shell change with all the parts from this "sport".

TBH, good sport alikes hit similar money to the genuine ones, due to the fact a sport is just a 325i with a predetermined pack of goodies.

[daimlerman]

When I re-shelled, I transferd all the bit's and as above got a headed note saying engine swapped from car ### to car ### and a that was it. however I swapped in to a 325 auto shell so it was easy to make manual. But to change the car from a 320 to a 325 you will need to take the car to a bmw dealer when the work has been completed and get a letter from them to confirm the Model change or it will always be a 2494cc 320.

How would I go about getting a headed note if I transferred an engine from a 325 to another 325?

Just my current position with project cabbie!
If your engine is 'like for like',frankly I would not bother to tell DVLA,but in my case I have swapped a puny 4 cylinder girls for a man's 6 cylinder one,so it is just a bit obvious.
Letter from DVLA(and I am quoting here after sending in the V5c giving ALL the detail asked for on the V4c)....
Thank you for your recent application for a V5c.
Your application included a change of:
Engine size(cc)
To update our records with the change of vehicle details,you must provide evidence from the list below(choose one)
*A receipt of purchase on headed paper,from a garage,confirming the engine number,engine size(cc)and the fuel type for the reconditioned or replacement engine,if one has been fitted.
*An inspection report from an organisation such as the AA or RAC.
*An inspection report provided for insurance purposes.
*Written confirmation from the manufacturer showing engine number and size.
If your existing engine has been converted or the change took place before you bought the vehicle we will accept:
*Written confirmation on headed paper from the garage that carried out the conversion;
or,
*written confirmation of the change on headed notepaper from an indipendent garage.
Please note:very few manufactuters produce an engine of exactly 1990.If your evidence does not provide an accurate engine size,it may be rejected.
etc etc.

I am now on my third 'form of evidence'....if anyone can provide me with a sheet of 'headed notepaper from a garage',I would like to hear from you!

[badassyas]

if you are keeping it, dying and being buried in it, then do it. if you plan on a resale later on then that is a super duper ringer! everyone is talking about scuttles. there is a little problem with that.
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... highlight=
so what you would wanna do is buy one, but reuse the original one. if it comes to light that all seems a little iffy, then show the invoice and claim that what you have on the car is a replacement and here is the invoice to prove as it was rotten. the police wont know that the replacement scuttles are shite.
but yes either way its a ringer

[bss325i]

Just transfer the ID to another shell.

Its rife in old RS escort circles!

[Brianmoooore]

Either way mate, record everything you do. Keep all documents, photo all the changes and so on.

The last thing I would do! The reshell never happened!
A shell is a shell - they're both from the same era, so this would be more 'original' than a repaired shell with various new panels welded/bolted to it!
Chances are that various trim and other bits have been replaced previously, or will be as part of the resto.
I can't see that changing one component, the bodyshell, with one from the same era, makes it any less original.
How many restored classics do you think are actually all original?
Even more so with ex motorsport exotica - four replacement shells, twenty engines, suspension entirely replaced several times. How original is that?

[Kos]

the only time to keep the documentation is if he retians the donar cars ID and transfers the sport bits over to it, but it will still be a 320i with sport bits

brian, you have some very valid points but and original shell thats had work is still an origianl shell.

Mk1 and Mk2 escort shells that need work go for stupid money. the e30 can be compared to them, popular car for the masses that has cult following and in time prices will follow the way escort prices have gone

[daimlerman]

I inherited my grandads old yard brush.
I have fitted two new heads and three shafts,but it's still grandad's old yard brush....

[Kos]

I inherited my grandads old yard brush.
I have fitted two new heads and three shafts,but it's still grandad's old yard brush....

thats what trigger did, but it was still the same broom

[Cook318IS]

I am now on my third 'form of evidence'....if anyone can provide me with a sheet of 'headed notepaper from a garage',I would like to hear from you!

Get your friendly local MOT man to do one when he does the MOT, job jobbed

[daimlerman]

I inherited my grandads old yard brush.
I have fitted two new heads and three shafts,but it's still grandad's old yard brush....

thats what trigger did, but it was still the same broom

Exactly!
Hey Kos,we see eye to eye at last!

[Brianmoooore]

brian, you have some very valid points but and original shell thats had work is still an original shell.

If I change the boot, bonnet, front panel and doors this year, it's still an original shell.
If I change the roof skin, sills and floor pan next year, it's still an original shell.
If I change the bulkhead and inner wings the next year it's still an original shell.
If I change the boot floor, rear bulkhead, rear quarters and rear panel the year after that, it's still an original shell.
It so happens that all these panels came from one good shell that I happened to have, and carefully drilled out the spot welds.
If I do it all in one go, and save all the welding, it's not an original shell.
Would you rather have a shell that's unmolested, or one that has welds everywhere?

[daimlerman]

brian, you have some very valid points but and original shell thats had work is still an original shell.

If I change the boot, bonnet, front panel and doors this year, it's still an original shell.
If I change the roof skin, sills and floor pan next year, it's still an original shell.
If I change the bulkhead and inner wings the next year it's still an original shell.
If I change the boot floor, rear bulkhead, rear quarters and rear panel the year after that, it's still an original shell.
It so happens that all these panels came from one good shell that I happened to have, and carefully drilled out the spot welds.
If I do it all in one go, and save all the welding, it's not an original shell.
Would you rather have a shell that's unmolested, or one that has welds everywhere?

I would rather have the sound shell with the 'sport' VIN number..
Does that make me bad?
Better still,I'd rather have a V5c for my bloody project cabbie!

[Kos]

the things is you are still using a different shell

now some repaires are necesarry, but i doubt anyone will ever change that many panels. in regards to the repairs, if they are done to a high enough standard, and its done on a Jig whats the problem apart from cost ?

[daimlerman]

the things is you are still using a different shell

now some repaires are necesarry, but i doubt anyone will ever change that many panels. in regards to the repairs, if they are done to a high enough standard, and its done on a Jig whats the problem apart from cost ?

Seem to remember that there is a zoner somewhere re-building an M3 shell using this principle...

[bss325i]

I would rather have the sound shell with the 'sport' VIN number..
Does that make me bad?

No! Finaly something we agree on!

To put it another way, say when the car was two years old it got rolled and had an insurance repair which involved a brand new shell.

It would still be the same car just with one component replaced.

The problem now is new shells are NLA just like some other parts are NLA so what do we do, get a secondhand part.

With regards to ringing, if the the rusty car isn't stolen and the donor shell isn't then its not technically ilegal.

An E30 shell has its ID in two places, the VIN stamped into the scuttle and the chassis plate rivited to the slam pannel.

If the car a rusty scuttle and then had a front end impact which needed a new slam panel, both of these items would need to come off.

I would rather have a rot and damage free donor shell over a welded up car thats had half the panels on from the ETK.

Its also cheaper to.

I think this may start to become more common practice in the not to distant future.

[Kos]

the things is you are still using a different shell

now some repaires are necesarry, but i doubt anyone will ever change that many panels. in regards to the repairs, if they are done to a high enough standard, and its done on a Jig whats the problem apart from cost ?

Seem to remember that there is a zoner somewhere re-building an M3 shell using this principle...

2 right there is !

and there are a few who will follow and agree with it

[e30topless]

a shell is a shell, they all came from the same place.....if you can get a solid one needing no work then go for it,

I had this problem when starting mine ..rust tons of it ! I refuse to own a car that has been welded/patched and the rest so i sourced a perfect one and my re-build started ,

as has been said already you will lose your 'sports' pedigree if you go this way, which will affect it's re-sale value

unless you conduct a scuttle-ectomy
you will then need an identical colour donor, finding a solid rot free e30 shell is almost impossible. took me about 6 months of hunting before i got lucky

[Kos]

i'd like to know how bad the sport is

[daimlerman]

I would rather have the sound shell with the 'sport' VIN number..
Does that make me bad?

No! Finaly something we agree on!