i have a tourer drift/track slag!

[Karan]

engine sweet
body sweet (but faded!)
pulls hard but scary to go above walking pace at the moment cos suspension is incredibly shagged and car is basically out on the piss all the time!!!

but for the money i couldnt have asked for more

gotta sort susoension and brakes and install my bucket seat and spare lsd and voila! a drift tourer is born



pics to follow

[Ant]

no comment

[Karan]

no comment

......... LOL

[Jhonno]

white or green?

[Karan]

white or green?

pink

[M5pilot]

Nice meeting up with you today karan....hope you enjoy the biatch.

INteresting night though, drove your 2.7, then the C2 and gave it the thumbs up after final remap, got pullled up by cops (queens english came in handy!) and then drove the 320i!

[Demlotcrew]

Sal, do you still think your C2 is faster than karans?

A

[Jhonno]

white or green?

pink

[M5pilot]

I dont have a C2 to be exact, it belongs to a friend of mine.

Its not easy to compare the two cars because Karan's car is load sensitive and the Alpina is Throttle sensitive. Therefore when GUG is under load it responds better. The C2 has that electric throttle response and you have to tell it what to do where load is concerned.....there's alot more driver involvement when it comes to throttle control.

Acceleration wise Karan said the C2 had alot more bottom end torque.

I drove both cars back to back and found the Alpina to have the edge throughout the rev range and in ultimate acceleration.


The Alpina runs 225/50 tyres vs GUG's 205/50 tyres so the roling radius on C2 is much bigger. C2 has a 3.64 Diff vs GUG's 3.91 so basically there is a big difference in gearing.

The C2 would be significantly faster with 205/50's and a 3.91 diff but then the C2 has a brand new engine at the end of the day with only 3000 miles on it and the fuelling and timing equipment is much more sophisticated. Its also got a lightweight flywheel and the crank is steel (dunno if the steel bit makes a difference).

However saying all of that, on the road there wouldnt be much in them, the C2 may gain say a car length upto 100mph.

They are two totally different cars because of the way the engines are setup. The GUG is loud all the time, the C2 very quiet at low revs under no load and serioulsy loud when pushed.

ON the track GUG would totally waste the C2 because of the excellent handling it has. The biggest thing I was impressed with was the ride quailty which was superb over the normal roads in my area. H&R cup kit really is the best suspension Ive ever come accross.

Personally, If I owned either I would be very very happy. They are both serioulsy quick, both make individual and really nice noises and both look great. C2 will be getting H&R Cup 60/40 this month + anti roll bars.


Just to add, I greatly feel the GUG has more to give yet with a remap.

[Sjoerd320i]

[Nelly]

Would it be a Blue slag by any chance?

I'll have to pop round soon and say hello to your Dad and see how the "projects" are coming along if thats ok with you.

[Simon13]

Sal the steel forget crank used in the C2 lump is unbreakable! Which means if u have one (like BMBOB git beat me to it!) then u could turbo your already tasty 2.7! oh i tremble at the thought!

The Eta effort however can break and twist at over 5000 RPM as it was designed to plod along at under 3k for most of it's life. But as we know they are usually fine!

Karan u coming Sat?!

[M5pilot]

Nice to have a steel crank then! No turbo plans as yet as its already quick enough. The owner is more than happy with it.

I may be going turbo soon though!

I think the ETA cranks are ok, never heard of a 2.7 breaking a crank. There isnt much point in revving a 2.7 past 6250rpm anyway as they seldom make much power after that unless they have a 288 cam.

[Andy335Touring]

Karan, after you have sorted the M5 powered beast put a turbo on the Touring !!

[Karan]

Karan, after you have sorted the M5 powered beast put a turbo on the Touring !!

Andy could u please PM me ure number and ill call u about the exhaust, what time would be good to call? sorry to have kept u waiting so long!!!! ive been so busy that i barely ever coime on my computer recently

id love to turbo it but i do not have the ability to pull it off!

the engine is really really sweet on this with no smoke from cold ore at anytime-150k miles!!! these m20s are solid---touch wood
pulls hard

i put offset m3 tca biushes on today and the iS lip. 3.73 lsd goes on tmro,

i had been wondering why the steering did not self centre that well and it turns out that the wheels are really toed out so much so u can see it from the front really badly!!!! no wonder it drives like a pile of shit and pulls randomly from left to right. getting shocks and springs this week too!

i plan to only use 2nd hand bits to keep costs down,

after driving this around today..... and getting in the sport in the evening for a longer journey... i realised how lucky i am to have a complete car like that,.... and i had been gettoing bored... i think everyone should drive a sshitter round all day then keep their proper car for special use!!!!

[Adammcf]

Nice one! Get that big arse out! ;)

[Demlotcrew]

Sal, i just dont believe your explinations for the extra speed the GUG can carry, all that about the diffs (this would be valid if they have the same gear boxes) anyway i just find it hard to believe that the C2 has more bottom end torque (what do you mean by bottom end?)
What do you mean by load sensitive? and throttle sensitive?

A

[Jhonno]

i think the c2 runs aftermarket ecu and the throttle position dictates the fueling etc as its based on a fuel/revs/throttle position graph thing

whereas Karans is still using the standard setup (ish! MAF i know..)

[Demlotcrew]

i think the c2 runs aftermarket ecu and the throttle position dictates the fueling etc as its based on a fuel/revs/throttle position graph thing

whereas Karans is still using the standard setup (ish! MAF i know..)

And the GUG sports a stage three head!

A

[Jhonno]

i think the c2 runs aftermarket ecu and the throttle position dictates the fueling etc as its based on a fuel/revs/throttle position graph thing

whereas Karans is still using the standard setup (ish! MAF i know..)

And the GUG sports a stage three head!

A

yeah

i was just trying to explain the load/throttle thingy..

having been in GUG briefly i know it is rapid, not even seen the C2 however

[Karan]

they feel similar to be honest and the figures are about the same however i believe the c2 has a flatter torque curve and pulls sweetly from low revs very hard whereas mine is quicker from 3.5-5k.

basically its like comaparing one 325 to another.... they are the same but GUG is ay more noisy

oh and heres some food for thought..... with a 3.7 diff my car was 0.2/.3 secs quicker to the 1/4 everytime with gtech having tested this extensively, but the 3.7 diff lost 0-60 time

therefore i reckon GUG would be quicker mid speed machine with longer gearing, but lose of the line ability marginally

also ill be getting a lightweight flywheel soon as the c2 has this and i reckon its the reason behind it spinning up more freely than the GUG.

may have it mapped again soon as the new manifold really changed things

that C2 is soooooooo much quicker than before

Karan

[Davenotouring]

What's your quickest G-Tech 0-60 mate?

Using another chaps lauching style, launch at 7k, seriously! Whereas I normally launch at 4.5k, I pulled a 6.2 to 60!

Normally get about 6.5/6.6

[Karan]

What's your quickest G-Tech 0-60 mate?

Using another chaps lauching style, launch at 7k, seriously! Whereas I normally launch at 4.5k, I pulled a 6.2 to 60!

Normally get about 6.5/6.6

taking average i get 5.9-6 ona real good day, but quickest was a 5.8, but u have to disregard these absurdly quick speeds

[M5pilot]

Sal, i just dont believe your explinations for the extra speed the GUG can carry, all that about the diffs (this would be valid if they have the same gear boxes) anyway i just find it hard to believe that the C2 has more bottom end torque (what do you mean by bottom end?)
What do you mean by load sensitive? and throttle sensitive?

A

You have a habit of never believing anything I say so I'm kinda getting used to it now...LOL.

Why do you find it hard to belive the Alpina has more bottom end torque?

The diff theory makes every bit of sense + your forgetting the big difference in rolling radius. Shorter gearing = torque multiplier.

Load sensitive: GUG is dependant on readings from MAF

Throttle Sensitive: C2 is mapped using throttle angle.

I definately felt the C2 rev faster through every gear harder than the GUG but this is to be expected simple because its a newer fresh build of near the exact same spec as the GUG. The C2 also gets more powerful everytime its dyno'd which is quite normal.

Without knowing the spec of the C2 engine you shouldn't jump to conclusions. The spec of the engine also includes total seal rings.

If your still doubting then come down and have a test drive and you'll understand.

[Davenotouring]

but u have to disregard these absurdly quick speeds

I do mate!

Just thinking, the G-Techs might be as inaccurate as each other!

[Karan]

Sal, i just dont believe your explinations for the extra speed the GUG can carry, all that about the diffs (this would be valid if they have the same gear boxes) anyway i just find it hard to believe that the C2 has more bottom end torque (what do you mean by bottom end?)
What do you mean by load sensitive? and throttle sensitive?

A

You have a habit of never believing anything I say so I'm kinda getting used to it now...LOL.

Why do you find it hard to belive the Alpina has more bottom end torque?

The diff theory makes every bit of sense + your forgetting the big difference in rolling radius. Shorter gearing = torque multiplier.

Load sensitive: GUG is dependant on readings from MAF

Throttle Sensitive: C2 is mapped using throttle angle.

I definately felt the C2 rev faster through every gear harder than the GUG but this is to be expected simple because its a newer fresh build of near the exact same spec as the GUG. The C2 also gets more powerful everytime its dyno'd which is quite normal.

Without knowing the spec of the C2 engine you shouldn't jump to conclusions. The spec of the engine also includes total seal rings.

If your still doubting then come down and have a test drive and you'll understand.

i think they wpuld be the same down the 1/4

[Simon13]

well explain the spec of the C2 lump then, cos it sounds like it isn't how it was when it left sytners all those years ago..................

Reving more freely than gug doesn't mean it pulls harder?!

[Karan]

well explain the spec of the C2 lump then, cos it sounds like it isn't how it was when it left sytners all those years ago..................

Reving more freely than gug doesn't mean it pulls harder?!

spec is identical to mine really apart from it has mbe and lightened flywheel

however i feel my head may be taken a bit further than the alpina head but i dont really know. oh and the c2 has the same cam as me too
it pulls as hard i reckon but id have to drive it to say

Karan

[Karan]

fcuk the 2.7 debate..... as Sal said they do both rule but c2 needs suspension work and will be getting same as GUG as he said

this threads about tourers!!! they rock!!! they are so darn practical

i realised today that the reason for the shite steering was tracking.... ther was serious toe out... so i adjusted this and it seems better now however will be getting proper suspension soon

also removed open diff wrongness today in prep for lsd tmro canyt wait to get this beast sideways!-not to say that i havent been already

[Sjoerd320i]

as this thread is about tourers, show us yours mate

[TOURINGDADDY]

lsd's on tourers rock i have soooooooooooooooooooo much fun in mine

[Karan]

as this thread is about tourers, show us yours mate

will take pics tmro...!!!

its currently pink/white one side and quite a nice brill red the other, as ive polished one side up

oh it has iS lip now too

[Karan]

lsd's on tourers rock i have soooooooooooooooooooo much fun in mine

they get the arse out so much more easy even on open diff when u chuck it in compared to my sport...however it needs an lsd to keep the arse out.....full report tmro!!!!!

[Davenotouring]

Easier than yours!

Bloody hell!

I found my Sport easier than my touring by a long way, must get those rear dampers changed!

[M5pilot]

Just to answer Simon's question about the C2 engine.

Compression slightly higher now, Total Seal rings and Shrick 284/272 Cam + lightweight flywheel is whats different from when it left factory.

Engine has 3k miles and was rebuilt by Bexleys and is gaining power everytime it goes on the dyno. First dyno gave 200bhp and now its 215 bhp.

Outside the engine its BMC Carbon Aibox, BTB 6 branch manifold, Stainless steel exact Alpina copy Exhaust, MBE stand alone management, M30 injectors, FSE boost valve - maping all done by Bexleys.

The car is currently in my possession and I drove it again today and its very very quick. Power delivery very very linear with no peakiness. Very flat torque curve.

As for tourers....they rule! Looking forward to seeing Karan's slag (used to be my slag) when its finished.