E46 m3 engine conversion?

[Gwynleym10]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... Track=true

This would be pretty awsome in a e30. Has it been done yet? anyone know of any info?

[Martinaston]

bet it won't go for that starting price.
Would be nice though

[Jimbob]

Some guy who goes into my local $tealer has an E46 M3 powered E30 M3

Yet to see it though...perhaps it's just a myth!

[M3Compact]

I've been told that unlike the E36 M3, the E46 M3 has the Ecu linked with the ABS etc, making it very difficult to use outside of its original environment. (Unconfirmed.)

[Karan]

im sure if u can get the whole car loom its not impossible to do...

i think mr gumball/chippeduk is doing it on his cab....

its not dissimilar to the e36 m3 lump i think... just the fly by wire issues to deal with along with the ews....

Karan

[Jimbob]

The cab sold ages ago man

[Karan]

ohhhh my bad....

i want an e46 m3 lump soooo bad

[buster]

i thought gumball/jayson put in a s50 same as what im doing ?

[Zayyan]

Yeah it was an E36 Evo engine in that red cab that was on eBay...

I thought S54 engines were nicknamed "time bombs" or something as they're known for blowing up?

Some nice feedback the seller's got

[M5pilot]

E46 M3 engines are not really time bombs, its just that kind of car that gets driven really hard and you dont know if the owners are revving the crap out of them cold.

Remember, alot of people but M3's just because its an m3 and its fast, they arent necessarily enthusiasts who know anything about cars.

E46 engine is alot more powerful than the Evo engine, evo engines rarely put out in excess of 290 bhp. The E46 engine apprently puts down stock figures.

[alpina527]

Don't bid for this engine!!!! he is a scammer.

[nav786]

how do you know that. the feedback is dodgy

[astondg]

I already have a standalone engine management system that is supposed to handle VANOS (not sure about double VANOS though) so I wouldn't need the factory ECU would I? That engine would be nice . I guess shipping to Australia would be expensive, maybe I can find one out here.

Aston

[Moofles]

actually i think the e46 m3 engines were known as timebombs due to a defect part - crankshaft or something i think it was?

much more of a situation in america, in fact i can't confirm it happened here, but e46 m3 engines within a certain manufacture period could be fixed FOC (bad crankshaft or whatever was used in this period). Initially, and possibly still the case, they refused to fix s54 m roadster engines...because (in america) they had a 7500 rpm limit it's believed they [BMW] thought the engines were OK to not repair (or didn't have a problem)...the e46 m3's had an 8000 rpm limit (which I think is what gives a different power output, 325hp vs 343hp).

Anyway, the point is they had a problem in america so maybe they had one here - I don't know.

[Karan]

i know the s50 had probs with bottom end con rod bolts.....i 'think'

[M3Compact]

I think it's the E46 S54 that had the recall for end cap/con rod bolts.

Certainly the S50 is prone to twisting the crank if it spins a shell.

Afaik, the E46's increased power is down to the increased capacity and 7800 max revs, as opposed to 7400 with the E36.

evo engines rarely put out in excess of 290 bhp.

I've heard that too, but I've also spoken to a RR that had the cars on 'back to back' with only 18 BHP difference at the wheels.

[astondg]

Afaik, the E46's increased power is down to the increased capacity and 7800 max revs, as opposed to 7400 with the E36.

Yeah, both are 3.2L but the S54 is nearly 100cc bigger (94 actually) . Also I am fairly sure that the S54 in the E46 M3 is redlined at 8000rpm and I have heard that the limiter is 8250rpm. Power is at 7900rpm anyway so it at least revs that high.

Also, what about the E46 M3's variable M differential lock, can that be made to fit an E30? Easily? It sounds good.

Aston

[M3Compact]

Also I am fairly sure that the S54 in the E46 M3 is redlined at 8000rpm and I have heard that the limiter is 8250rpm. Power is at 7900rpm anyway so it at least revs that high.

You're right Aston. Peak power is actually at 7900 in the E46, as opposed to 7400 in the E36.

Also, what about the E46 M3's variable M differential lock, can that be made to fit an E30? Easily?

No, it can't be built in to an E30 casing. The only practical difference is that the LSD unit is wheel speed as well as torque triggered. (It will operate when it senses extreme differences in road wheel speeds, not just 'wasted' torque, as the previous LSD units do.)

[astondg]

I thought that a normal LSD just locks up and sends 50% of the power to each wheel when it detects slip? The M differential is supposed to be able to send anything up to 100% of the power to the wheel with traction if the other wheel has no traction.

Aston

[M3Compact]

No, it can't be built in to an E30 casing. The only practical difference is that the LSD unit is wheel speed as well as torque triggered. (It will operate when it senses extreme differences in road wheel speeds, not just 'wasted' torque, as the previous LSD units do.)

.... The M differential is supposed to be able to send anything up to 100% of the power to the wheel with traction if the other wheel has no traction.

Aston

Could that amount to the same thing Aston?

My understanding is that the diff uses a pump to drive the clutch plates, that is triggered by differences in wheel speed, as well as torque slip.

Obviously some torque has to be applied to the wheel with less traction, in order to 'monitor' the available traction.

If the diff can control the traction to each wheel independently, then the ability to direct the traction based on speed discrepancies between the wheels, as opposed to just 'torque slip', could provide the more efficient distribution.

I thought that a normal LSD just locks up and sends 50% of the power to each wheel when it detects slip?

There are different ways to view this. My view is that they're more efficient than is obviously apparent.

Most traditional LSD units (Quaife ATBs excepted) are capable of locking the diff/axle. This transmits 100% of the torque across the axle.
Torque is effective against resistance. If one wheel in a locked axle has no traction, obviously it'll spin but cause little resistance, the other wheel will provide the resistance and demand the torque to drive it, using the majority of the 'effective torque', whilst the axle as a unit provides the resistance.

In this case the torque, although applied equally to each wheel, is effectively being used differently.

If you attach a dyno' to one driven wheel on a solid/locked axle, while allowing the other wheel to spin freely, the dyno' won't read 50% of the engine's torque output.

I suspect that some of the claims about the 'variable' diff may be exaggerated. I can even for see circumstances where a traditional LSD would be more efficient. (Drifting etc.). If I've misunderstood, more info' would be interesting.

[H35-IAN]

actually i think the e46 m3 engines were known as timebombs due to a defect part - crankshaft or something i think it was?

much more of a situation in america, in fact i can't confirm it happened here, but e46 m3 engines within a certain manufacture period could be fixed FOC (bad crankshaft or whatever was used in this period). Initially, and possibly still the case, they refused to fix s54 m roadster engines...because (in america) they had a 7500 rpm limit it's believed they [BMW] thought the engines were OK to not repair (or didn't have a problem)...the e46 m3's had an 8000 rpm limit (which I think is what gives a different power output, 325hp vs 343hp).

Anyway, the point is they had a problem in america so maybe they had one here - I don't know.

moofles its to do with the crank shells m8 the problems with the e46 m3 lumps !! my m8 works for bmw and is a top technicion he got the job of doing the recalls on them! hope this helps however u cant rev the shit out of them from cold no chance as they rev harder as they get warmer if uve ever driven one u will know.
wicked engines though

[astondg]

Could that amount to the same thing Aston?

Don't think so, you are saying how it decides when to distribute power, I was saying how it distributes power (well probably how it can distribute power). Both are important.

...
Obviously some torque has to be applied to the wheel with less traction, in order to 'monitor' the available traction.

If the diff can control the traction to each wheel independently, then the ability to direct the traction based on speed discrepancies between the wheels, as opposed to just 'torque slip', could provide the more efficient distribution.
...
Most traditional LSD units (Quaife ATBs excepted) are capable of locking the diff/axle. This transmits 100% of the torque across the axle.
Torque is effective against resistance. If one wheel in a locked axle has no traction, obviously it'll spin but cause little resistance, the other wheel will provide the resistance and demand the torque to drive it, using the majority of the 'effective torque', whilst the axle as a unit provides the resistance.

In this case the torque, although applied equally to each wheel, is effectively being used differently.

Like you said it provides maximum traction even when one wheel is in the air or on a very low grip surface and the torque difference between the wheels can't be monitored properly. That is a situation when a normal LSD is inefficient.

If you attach a dyno' to one driven wheel on a solid/locked axle, while allowing the other wheel to spin freely, the dyno' won't read 50% of the engine's torque output.

Yes but I'm not talking about how much torque is available, I am talking about how much is being used to move the car forward. If there are differences between the traction available for the left a right wheels and the differential is locked up there is only so much power it can take away from the spinning wheel so that wheel could still have too much power for its traction and be getting wheelspin. Much less then an open differential but there is still wasted torque.

I suspect that some of the claims about the 'variable' diff may be exaggerated. I can even for see circumstances where a traditional LSD would be more efficient. (Drifting etc.). If I've misunderstood, more info' would be interesting.

From what I have seen and read the latest M3 is great for drifting so the differentail can't be that bad.

I'm not trying to make people want it, just saying that I do and wondering if I can fit one. Probably requires a computer and stuff anyway, and that is probably part of the main ECU.

Aston

[M3Compact]

Don't think so, you are saying how it decides when to distribute power, I was saying how it distributes power (well probably how it can distribute power). Both are important.

Agreed.

I'm not trying to make people want it, just saying that I do and wondering if I can fit one. Probably requires a computer and stuff anyway, and that is probably part of the main ECU.

I'd be very interested in trying one too, tho' I guess you're right about the Ecu aspect, this could be another of the reasons that the S54 is difficult to use outside of its original environment.

From what I have seen and read the latest M3 is great for drifting so the differentail can't be that bad.

I'd assumed that the variable diff would be more 'Mr. Sensible' orientated, which might hamper the sideways action, I hope I was wrong.