m42 schrick cams and chip

[Brian28]

E is definitely inlet (put some 272 reground cams in mine yesterday) whatever German is for inlet starts with an E

[tim_s]

Inlet = E, exhaust = A, think it's for Einlass and Auslass, someone who actually knows some german I'm sure can correct me. You feeling less certain on the cam timing then?
It should be pretty obvious if you've fitted them the wrong way, your cam timing will be out by quite a bit. You probably would have noticed when fitting from the position of the cam lobes on cyl 1 compared to how they were on the cams you removed. I've run exhaust cams on the inlet side (timed them manually by using a dial gauge and a protractor on the crank), they're out by quite a bit if using the square on the back of the cam.

[B15NAC]

well monkey on here did it with me and we did it right i think! i was a bit worried that schrick may have done it a differant way may pop the rocker cover off to cheak all is ok?

[Andyboy]

Inlet/Entrance(E) = Einlass/Eingang etc, Exhaust/Exit/Way out A = Aus/Auspuff/Ausfahrt etc.

How many have fitted cams thinking E = Exhaust......?

[tim_s]

Mine is on his system for comparison too, was done with standard engine and chip so a good benchmark.

What did yours look like on Paul's then Brian? Be quite good to plot a few M42s against one another, Paul's got the 1.9 one on there too - be quite good to do 1.8, 1.9, 2.1 graphs!
Here's an old graph of the 2.1 - the latest incarnation of that engine has a few new tweaks and is still going strong according to the current owner

The AFM removed one needed tuning - was just a quick test to see what difference it made.

[Barx325i]

bring out some torque with a longer inlet & definitely check yr EA configuration

Your max HP is too high up the rev range, which can be shifted with the verniers cunningly supplied with the m42

[B15NAC]

Right just had the rocker cover off and the cams are the right way and i checked the timming and its spot on! so it must be down to fueling?

[tim_s]

bring out some torque with a longer inlet & definitely check yr EA configuration

Your max HP is too high up the rev range, which can be shifted with the verniers cunningly supplied with the m42

Huh? You on about the 2.1 r/r or B15's 1.8 ones? for the latter, the opposite is the case - a factory m42 makes peak power at just over 6k rpm iirc - check the owner's handbook, but most make power at at least this point, mb a bit higher. with the cams, about 6,7k which is what he's seeing is probably about right - a 1.8 16v engine with sports cams should make peak power right at the top I'd have thought. think the 1.9 I built with kent regrinds was v similar. Basically with a small capacity like that, you need some rpm to make some power!

For the former, absolutely not! from 5,7k to the redline at about 7,3-7,4k it's making over 190bhp, one hell of a wide powerband to play with. You try to make 200bhp out of a 2.1 litre 4 cylinder engine at any less rpm, and try to get more than 1500rpm of 190bhp+.
On torque, look at the rolling road, its making more than the peak torque of the 1.8 engine from 2,5k rpm all the way to the redline, and over 150ft/lbs from 4,5k rpm.

Right just had the rocker cover off and the cams are the right way and i checked the timming and its spot on! so it must be down to fueling?

Good news! Maybe on the fuelling, but get a compression test going on across all cyls, let's see what numbers you've got first. A tester's gonna cost you less than a tenner!

[B15NAC]

I have also spoken to fritz bits and i may be going up next week they seem to think they can get the air an fuel right? so may give that a go to. what should the compressions be?

[pacerpete]

The world needs more mavericks but out of interest, how much has your 140 bhp cost you ?

[Andyboy]

More than the £350 a really nice 171 bhp 325i mill would cost I imagine..............

[tim_s]

I have also spoken to fritz bits and i may be going up next week they seem to think they can get the air an fuel right? so may give that a go to. what should the compressions be?

Cool. I'm not sure how they intend to adjust the air/fuel ratio, be interesting to see what they do. I'm really not an advocate of messing with the AFM spring, and other than that I don't see how they'll be able to do that without altering the map or changing parts... Have fritz' got some rollers? Be great to get AFRs on full load, would really help get some clues here - if you do ever get up to chippenham, getting it on paul's rollers and getting a graph comparing against other M42s could really help identify what's what.
on the compression, depends on how you rate the condition of the engine, but a decent figure for a 10:1 CR M42 on moderate duration cams such as yours (warm cranking compression using a proper screw in gauge with the throttle held open and all spark plugs removed) would be a nice even 190 across all cyls, that's what my 1.9 used to do on slightly more spiky cams than yours but on a skimmed head, the 2.1 did 210-215 across all cyls but was a much higher CR. There are some rules of thumb, sort of 170-180psi suggests that the duration of the cams is a bit too much for the condition of the engine. There's normally a pretty good correlation between compression numbers and power on a standardish engine all else being equal.Try some oil in the bores too and see if that brings the compression up at all, this is a good indicator of problems. You can do all of this with a £10 compression tester from your local parts shop...

[B15NAC]

The cams were 200pound and the chip 50! so not to bad so far

[tim_s]

£200 for the cams is fantastic value I'd def measure the lobes etc though if they're second hand, make sure you're actually getting what you expect.

[B15NAC]

it went alot better after fitting the cams so im guessing there pucker

[tim_s]

it went alot better after fitting the cams so im guessing there pucker

Well your graphs don't tell that story - 140bhp from a tinkered with IS is a tad disappointing imo. It's not necessarily that they're not pucker that's in question - just worth checking they're not well used/worn etc.

[B15NAC]

theres no wear on them at all and they are brand new apart from being in a mates e30 before he put a m50 in i think about 3000miles? i got all the documetation and stuff with them to. How would i cheak them to make 100% sure?

[tim_s]

sounds like they're fine then dude - would take much more miles than that to get worn. To check measure the base circle and the lobe end-to-end and subtract the former from the latter - the number should give you the lift. Check on all lobes, make sure you get the same figure. bit of a ballache if you're convinced they're good. Def do compression test before that!

[B15NAC]

yea will do i will also let you no how i get on next week at fritz bits. what happened to your 2.1 318is?

[tim_s]

Sold it after I bought the boxster. Basically bought the boxster pretty much on impulse, then had 3 cars (boxster, e46 330ci and IS)! Put both 330ci and IS up for sale in a bit of a panic to get rid, 330ci sold quickly, was contented having IS + boxster, then a chap off here pm'd me asking if I still had the IS, offered good money for it and I really couldn't say no as two toys wasn't really what I needed, I needed a runner and using the IS for that would have been a bit of a shame. The dude who bought it is totally sound and glad I've sold it to someone who can enjoy it Do miss it though.

[Dave_M3]

Haven't seen you on here in a while Tim
Did you rebuild the 2.1 again and sell the car on?

Would second Paul for setting it up properly too. be hard to find another knew knows how to setup his 4 pot E30s better and really friendly lad too!!!

Hoping to get my 2.1 over to him once done but that could be a while as I've got the 3.2 and 3.6 toys to play with

[Brian28]

First run (April) was with a fresh standard engine, chip had a live remap to optimise everything. Second run (July) was because the car felt like it was running out of steam a couple of weeks previously on the long straights at Snetterton. I had fitted a carbon cone type Pipercross filter in between times, looks like it as strangling the car and robbed it of 5 brake. Original run was with cold air feed into standard airbox, K&N flat panel filter. Next run (later this month/early next month) will be with reground 272 cams and R1 bike carbs.

[tim_s]

Looking good, Brian! Thanks for posting them, reckon that's a healthy engine, some impressive figures from a 1.8.

Hey Dave, yeah rebuilt it I dunno 18 months ago now I guess as cyl 2 had a slight scratch on the bore which was causing a bit of oil usage - nothing dramatic but by all accounts it wasn't going to get any better so I tried to hone it out. No luck with that so decided while I had it in bits I might as well rebuild with a new set of rings. Drove it for mb 9 months or so after that inc probably its best nurburgring trip, then got a good offer on it so reluctantly let it go. Out of the current fleet, the boxster is a keeper, the others not so sure - just getting used to the b3, and I love the touring as a runner - loads of room and drives well enough, but may chop them in for something more modern and interesting down the line. 3.2 and 3.6 you say - juicy! s50b32 and s38b36?

[B15NAC]

standard Camshaft : Duration: inlet 252 exhaust 252 Lift: inlet 10.2 exhaust 10.2
and the technical info on my schricks are duration: inlet 256 exhaust 256 lift: inlet 10,4 exhaust 10,4

[Dave_M3]

Cool, last I spoke to you you were just starting to rebuild it for the final time. wasn't sure if you did it or not.

I have your old ITBs in my workshop at the moment, Feens never followed through with them and then blew up the M42 as he let the timing chain go too far so has an S50b30 in it now.

Friend of mine bought the ITBs then for his car so will hopefully get them on it soon.


Yep one is an S38 that I must rebuild. Other is an S54... I think S50s are soooooo last decade




As for the cam specs; they definitely don't warrant a very lumpy idle anyway so something is definitely up.

[tim_s]

Cool, the s50b30 TBs or the evo ones? the former had seen better days last I heard!
s54 What's that going into?!

[bss325i]

Inlet/Entrance(E) = Einlass/Eingang etc, Exhaust/Exit/Way out A = Aus/Auspuff/Ausfahrt etc.

How many have fitted cams thinking E = Exhaust......?

With BMW is Eingang and Ausfahrt.

[Dave_M3]

Cool, the s50b30 TBs or the evo ones? the former had seen better days last I heard!
s54 What's that going into?!

Look like B30 ones to me anyway. All seem fine anyway but must look at them closer.
S54 is for an ould drift and track slag, lol.

... if I ever get the finger out and finish college to get time and funds to finish it

[NoTurbo]

Ancient thread I know but, I find myself referencing this more than once for trouble shooting tips.

So I have narrowed down the process and added these points in order to help anyone else that also uses this thread :

1 - Is the incoming air clean? (pollutants, oil in airflow blocked etc)
2 - Is there a Compression loss in cylinders (compression check)
3 - Condition of the Plugs (oiling excess burn, coked up)
4 - Timing set properly (Check Dwell and advance M20 and distributors only good link bit.ly/1iQjOS7)
5 - Timing position everything correctly at TDC (pistons and cams)
6 - Fuel Pressure (perform a leak down test and FPR diagnostics)
7 - Injectors (Check they are seated right, clean and firing correctly - service every 80k)
8 - Conditions of Belts / chains tensioners
9 - Look for Correlations between each above element
10 - AFR - Last resort measure AFR and check again with a spare airbox before twiddling with AFR