Is the 320i the worst model?

[lance1a]

316 carb....crap???? I dunno..I loved mine.

[StuBeeDoo]

seems the ones who have actually tried them find the 320 to be a perfectly capable car, if a touch thirsty(depending on driving style).

Quite. The only complaint I had about my 320i's performance (when it was still a 2.0) was that it had nothing much to give below 4k rpm. Once you got it there, though, it was plenty quick enough to 6.5k and beyond. That's why they're so shite on fuel. ....And also why they're tiresome to drive.
It was easily sorted, though. eta bottom-end and 3.64 diff. Dyno proven to have more power and torque than a standard 325i all the way to 5k, and the economy's no worse than the 2.0 - 30+mpg on a run.
320i is an ideal recipient for a 2.7 or 2.8.

I've never driven a 4-pot BMW, so I'm not going to diss them. Having said that, I've always been in the "proper BMWs have 6 cylinders" camp.

[Jim320i]

316 carb....crap???? I dunno..I loved mine.

Such a geek! That looks very fresh.

[leeparkes]

I ran a b20 for about 6years and put about 50k on it, only time it ever let me down was a duff starter motor, yes there not as quick as a b25 but i did chase a 318is and he couldnt shake me off, in a straight line he may have had the slight edge but not by much.

[martauto]

a 316 M10 with a carb and a spaz box is sadly the very bottom of the bag,

Mine has done me OK for the past six years

I have a 525 for a bit of fun.

Mart.

[Speedtouch]

Slow is a Morris 1000...

Not if driven properly! They are a lightweight, nimble little rear wheel drive car with only 2.5 turns lock-to-lock steering rack, and can be hussled along at a surprisingly fair lick.

My first E30, a 1984 poverty-spec 320i moredoor with L-Jet, was pretty rapid also, giving a 0-60 mph time of around 8 seconds, onto 125 mph. It rapidly accrued me 9 points on my licence, and I had to sell it and go back to driving my Morris 1000 Traveller, which rarely gets the attention of plod.

[leeparkes]

Nice slot mags Maurice

[Speedtouch]

Cheers, Lee

[LeChiffre]

Slow is a Morris 1000...

Not if driven properly! They are a lightweight, nimble little rear wheel drive car with only 2.5 turns lock-to-lock steering rack, and can be hussled along at a surprisingly fair lick.

My first E30, a 1984 poverty-spec 320i moredoor with L-Jet, was pretty rapid also, giving a 0-60 mph time of around 8 seconds, onto 125 mph. It rapidly accrued me 9 points on my licence, and I had to sell it and go back to driving my Morris 1000 Traveller, which rarely gets the attention of plod.

Teal blue ftw! Had an Austin 1300 that colour.

[DavieP]

Just completed the Xmas round trip up to the Midlands and back in mine - 320i auto with a sensible suspension set up to cope with the bendy bits, which it does superbly. I fitted an Evolve chip that made a marked difference in power delivery and overall consumption and all in all it's a sprightly car that's a joy to drive. Took 2hrs 20 mins to do a somewhat brisk 177miles return trip (mostly M-way) , cruised very quietly with no fuss in the 85 - 95mph zone and still gave 34mpg.

Pootle around in the low (sub 2K) revs and it can be 'leisurely' in its pick-up, but floor it and the moment it gets above 3.5K it really does pack a punch and carries on to well over 6.5K Agreed it doesn't have the poke of a 325i, but unless you're racing everywhere trying to prove a pointless point, it doesn't really matter. Well not to me it doesn't.

I've long suspected that the majority of 320i dissers here haven't driven one with the majority of the criticism being closer to hear-say of hear-say than reality and this thread seems to bear that out. I've had mine for nearly 5 years, it's a daily driver and I don't really want anything else. Each to his own and all that, but if you want something that is going to see off everything at the lights, you should be looking well beyond an E30. Or at least think in terms of M52 transplants.

[e30-EVN]

M50 with the right upgrades will do me nicely.... Untill I get bored and brainstorm something else
Having said that I have to say that the 320 isn't as slow as people think but when I bought my current car (with my head and not my heart, for the shell), I had already had 2 325i's so in comparison it did feel a bit slow to me.
Especially below the magical 4000rpm when, in all fairness it did start to come alive after, but when driving hard like this you pay the price for juice!
Not the worst- by far!

[jonb]

Sure, but apples with apples. The specific output of a M20B25 was way ahead of it's day which is why they are still sought after. A modern BMW Twin Turbo Diesel is hardly a fair comparison, and only manages to knock a second off the 0-60 time......not exactly massive progress. The E90 325i is actually slower than an E30 325i in terms of acceleration.

It was not way ahead?

The bloody m20 dated back to the early 70's iirc. 170bhp in a car out of the box in 86 was awesome yes, but it was no better than the 130bhp from the 2 litre gm lump.

I was not comparing the new bmw with the old one. Only commenting how things have moved on. Its time to get into the real world....

[jonb]

So your 350 BHP Merc will out perform a BMW with half the engine capacity? Then I also pose the question.....WTF have you been doing on here for the last six years (and racking up over 3000 posts) if all along you thought the E30 was such a shit car? Are you also a member on Passion Ford or VeeDub and think their cars are crap too?

I have been on this forum since the start as i do like the e30, but i do not see it through rose tinted glasses as per most forum folk.

I personally think the e30 is great to drive, and i have had plenty.

[lance1a]

[quote="jonb"
it was no better than the 130bhp from the 2 litre gm lump.

I was not comparing the new bmw with the old one. Only commenting how things have moved on. Its time to get into the real world....[/quote]

The reailty is that This 'real world' is a forum about old E30's, not about later models. Which 2.0GM lump are you on about?

[lance1a]

As for your second post...I don't see it through rose tinted specs at all, I genuinely belive that E30's are still about the best in terms of value for money, build quality and about as modern a drive you can get with something over twenty years old. I've had over thirty E30's and about 100 other 'classics' in the last few aeons, and I keep coming back to the E30 as it ticks all the boxes. If someone said to you they could get you a well built german car with 170 bhp and RWD in a well balanced chassis for under a grand, you would think it nigh on impossible.

[GemE30]

I had a 320i touring and it was gutless. Never again would I have one, I preferred driving my fella's 1.8is and certainly prefer the tourer now she's a 2.5.

[jonb]

If someone said to you they could get you a well built german car with 170 bhp and RWD in a well balanced chassis for under a grand, you would think it nigh on impossible.

Come on. Who on earth specifies that when looking for an old car, and tbh there is nothing else with thoses credentials is there lol.

The gm engine i mentioned was the 2 litre fitted to the cavalier mk2.

The e30 is great fun to drive. Does it handle well in standard form?....no. The 4 pot models models are balanced though, so i agree with you on that.

I have owned an old 405 diesel estate for about 4 years now. Its a tired old piece of shit with nearly 180k on it, but it handles and steers better than most of the e30's i have owned.

[e30-EVN]

How in the hell can you compare a modern day 3.0 bi turbo to a 20+ year old motor??...
All be it a derv, modern diesels have come on leaps an bounds, my cousins vectra sri cdti 150 for example is a flier! 150bhp but over 240 lb ft torque which is the equivilent to an astra vxr!!! Without the rev range mind you.

As per your older post, ref golf gti 8v ect, an m20b25 would kill the 8v I agree but my old b25 would slay a 16v gti (150bhp if healthy) and driven by me!
I do not see the e30 through rose tinted spectacles but as said above, you try and find any rwd with 170bhp untouched and and as refined as the e30 that's 20yrs old+..... Answer.... You won't!!
I think your lost my friend, your batting in the wrong court

[e30-EVN]

Ah, the old cav's lol, I've had every one of those all bar the turbo and I tell you the one I would go for... Redtop every time, but even still only 150bhp, although with the right suspension setup handle like feck! But in standard guise like a pig!!! But then that's the case for 'most' cars, even the modern stuff otherwise where would there be a gap in the market for suspension companies?
2.0 8v gm motor = 130bhp and fuck all torque!
2.0 6 pot m20 = 130bhp and around the same in torque.
Now compare!

[jonb]

How in the hell can you compare a modern day 3.0 bi turbo to a 20+ year old motor??...
All be it a derv, modern diesels have come on leaps an bounds, my cousins vectra sri cdti 150 for example is a flier! 150bhp but over 240 lb ft torque which is the equivilent to an astra vxr!!! Without the rev range mind you.

As per your older post, ref golf gti 8v ect, an m20b25 would kill the 8v I agree but my old b25 would slay a 16v gti (150bhp if healthy) and driven by me!
I do not see the e30 through rose tinted spectacles but as said above, you try and find any rwd with 170bhp untouched and and as refined as the e30 that's 20yrs old+..... Answer.... You won't!!
I think your lost my friend, your batting in the wrong court

You have contradicted yourself. You mention that i compared new cars performance against old, and the you harp on about a 0.2 0-60 difference against a 25 year old car? christ who gives a shit.

Look. The e30 is in the same bracket as the old 205 gti, golf gti's etc. Its an old car that some people would love as a second car as they remember them from there youth or they have seen the reviews in "evo" or on pistonheads.

[e30-EVN]

Where have I contadicted myself??...
And the one that gives a shit the most seems to be you! Banging on about the e30 being, in your opinion, shite in every way???
I'm still struggling to understand why the feck you are here and how you seem to have racked up over 3000 posts? If you are so aginst the car this very forum is dedicated to?? Or am I missing something mate?

[HartgeH27]

Keep it on topic guys. This is a car forum, no need to get personal.

For information Jon was one of the original zoners way back in the day, hence his post count.

Jon, appreciate it if you would keep it within decent boundaries and rules.

[e30-EVN]

Its not your postcount, its what you do with it!!

[barker246]

I've got a 320i and it's rusty!

[Simon13]

320's are sh!t. Most popular model when new, least popular now they're old.

[HairyScreech]

actually the m20 is leagues ahead of a lot of the other stuff that came out of the late 70s.
in terms of combustion chamber design, mixing quality, porting and valve train design it blows the old cav engine out of the water, what the cav engine benefits from is a larger valve/capacity ratio than the m20, bigger valves = easier to get more power.

and thats having compared the two directly as i spent the last year living with a guy who tunes and races the 1.4 version to 140hp for grass track.

[HairyScreech]

320's are sh!t. Most popular model when new, least popular now they're old.

shit compared to what though si, shit when next to a 325/327/328 but compared to other 2l cars there not that bad, whats a 2l duratec? 140hp out the box? and there considered to be very good na engines.

we cant go comparing a 3 legged donkey to red rum.

[Speedtouch]

+1. The M20B20 was stunningly refined in comparison to alot of then contemporary engines, such as the clattery old lump of pig iron that was the Ford Pinto used in Cortinas, Sierras, etc.

Even the Mercedes 190E used a rather dull and uninspiring 2-litre 4-pot, with nowhere near the sparkle of the silky smooth six-pot BMW.

[e30topless]

I had a 320i a few years back, an Agate green 1986 car - it was a decent enough thing and went quite well. I don't recall it being bad on fuel, and it wasn't much slower than the 323i I had before (an '84 car).

that's interesting, not Many zoners have owned a 320i in Agate green, in fact there's only one I recall,

[e30topless]

+1. The M20B20 was stunningly refined in comparison to alot of then contemporary engines, such as the clattery old lump of pig iron that was the Ford Pinto used in Cortinas, Sierras, etc.

Even the Mercedes 190E used a rather dull and uninspiring 2-litre 4-pot, with nowhere near the sparkle of the silky smooth six-pot BMW.

as much as i like a dirty old 320i, they couldn't catch a 190E 2.0 ,

[HairyScreech]

the interesting thing about the pinto is the head had really nice steep downdraught ports when it was designed.

but as it was an upright engine rather than a slanter they had to lower its stack height.

so they squished the head downwards resulting in the mess of a head the production cars had.

[Speedtouch]

as much as i like a dirty old 320i, they couldn't catch a 190E 2.0 ,

How so?

Merc 190E: 118bhp, 0-60mph in 10.5 sec, top speed 120mph.

BMW 320i: 125/129bhp, 0-60mph in 9.5 sec, top speed 125mph.

I know that the two chromey B- and E-reg L-Jet 320i's I had were more sprightly than the E-reg Merc 190E 2-litre (manual) I owned.

[toby]

No, they're fine. 'Only' 125 bhp but they're not heavy so they'll still do 100 mph anywhere and will do 30 mpg on a run. The 316i/318i are okay - better on fuel but the engine is not as robust (and 320i's are practically unbreakable) and just a bit ordinary. 318iS's are a bit faster and better on fuel, but are quite harsh and noisy - the 320i is smooth and sounds glorious at higher rpm. The M42 engine isn't unreliable, but they have more 'issues'. 325i's are a fair bit faster, but more expensive too.

A good 320i is a nice car to drive, no question.

I've not had anything like the number of cars in my ownership as you Andy but I have owned every model of the E30 and totally agree that the 320i is a lovely car to drive.

If you want a fast car, buy something else.

I loved the 316 carb - it was light and so chuckable. The more it got thrashed the better it got.

Where do people get the nerve to come on the forum and slate E30s? This is not the place (and I don't mean you Jon).

[swindler]

The prefacelift 320s are certainly faster than post, but both are undeniably smooth engines...

[lance1a]

The prefacelift 320s are certainly faster than post, but both are undeniably smooth engines...

My 1983 68000 mile 320i is the quietest M20 I have ever not heard.