318iS V 325i Sport

[Davenotouring]

christ the the b16a1/2 used in civic Vtecs has practially no torque!

And despite being a 1.6 still tear up a 325! Woohoo!

[320Touring]

ahh the old question...

I've had plenty of experience of both lumps (all be it my m20 is a b20, not b25).

I would say its all down to your driving style...

If you're a lazy ass who likes to rag it sometimes, then m20 is your bag- great sound and plenty of poke from idle.

If, however, you like to feel like you're on coke all the time-living on adrenaline and 6+k revs, the iS is for you.

Both are great cars, just in different ways.

As for the "m42 heads blow, m20 heads blow" as long as the coolant is changed REGULARLY, and you service both engines well, they're both liable to be as reliable as a rolex,but with significantly more go

[Simon13]

if the head is going to go it will go end of. coolant this coolant that yeah it makes some difference but not alot.

it was a joke about a big vibration it was a dig at how rough 4 pots can be.

a 318iS is NOTHING like an M3! drive both then u will see like i said 16v is where the similarities end.

2.8 Z3's are a quick hairy arsed car. Very similar to a 2.7 E30 in weight and torque deliveries. Appletree u must of driven a lemon I've had the arse out on my mums Z3 in 4th gear in the dry. shit myself damm right!

[appletree]

I didnt drive it as i'am not insured to drive any car coz am only 19. i was talking about how it felt and how never realy seamed to pull any more or less through the rev range which i think is the fun part of the IS IMO.

It did handel though we went through a corner that i normaly do at 80mph in the IS at 90 odd mph.

would you say the Z3 2.8 is quicker or slower then a good 2.7 then?

[M5pilot]

A 318iS is not going to beat an M20 engined 2.5 ..... in a straight line. Round bends it may well be a different
story.

I'd personally have the 2.5 due to the very nice torque spread and revability.

We are taking about standard cars here.

Once modified the 318iS can certainly give a noticeable increase in torque and BHP. The cars pull alot harder and the difference then closes in.

However, spend some money on a 325i with some good bolt on mods and that gap is again widened.

The 2.5 can be made to handle very well if the suspension is carefully chosen, it won't have the same balance as a 318iS though.

As for 318iS vs 215bhp M3 - no comparison. Even a very good 2.7 will lose the an M3 (once on the move) in terms of acceleration and more importantly handling and balance.

Just my opinion.

Sal

[Davenotouring]

A 318iS is not going to beat an M20 engined 2.5 ..... in a straight line.

But will the 2.5 beat the 1.8 ?

I'm not too sure....

[Simon13]

yes it will. Me and demlot had a good go back in tut day!

his 318iS had a BBTB, he'd tinkered with the timing and a viper chip.

my sport had stainless system and zone chip at the time.

both cars had sweet engines

Sport won! but only started to make a good sized gap in 3rd gear when the extra torque and bhp showed. Very close up and till then.

[pacerpete]

Ah but Simon, Demlot has aids and weighs 4 1/2 stone , and you are a normal healthy lad, it was hardly a fair race !

[Davenotouring]

Pete! You horrible scoundrel!

[e30bmlover]

i must be making it all up then

how many of u 318is owners have owned a 325i sport aswell, or both at the same time to give a balanced opinion if needed?

a good 325 will be quicker in most situations compared to a good 318is. I've done the races!

"and if four pots are so out of balance why did they use them in e30 race cars for years on end?" because they made a f**king big vibration damper for it! 4 pots are flawed and u know it.

Dan why are the bmw touring cars of today 4 pots then? Mr 42 designer topped himself maybe? or because a 6 pot is better i wonder?

the only thing in common with an M3 is the 16v valve bit and thats where it ends really oh and the doors and bonnet how could i forget.

lol you kill me!
lol compareing the m42 to a s14, dont make me laugh. a 325i will piss a 318i.s. its m20 all the way for me!

[Simon13]

AND! as andrew said my sport was a really heavy 325i becasue it had leathers and a tech 2 kit lol, his had none of these high spec features and 4 doors

[Davenotouring]

a 325i will piss a 318i.s. its m20 all the way for me!

Rubbish!!!

[Simon13]

it won't piss it but it will beat one! but any ropey 2.5's will probably be slower than a good 318is tbh

[e30bmlover]

i.s = 4 pot screamer(please bare in mind that you are 2 cylinders short of a real engine) b25 = power and smoothness , its a no brainer really.

[Davenotouring]

b25 = power?

That's the funniest thing I heard all day.

B16 = 160bhp that's decent power from a small engine. 10bhp down on an engine with 900cc extra!

Start looking at E36 M3s for cars which make decent power from a an engine size you'd expect!

[e30bmlover]

to true about the e36, but they are heavy. would love to have a s50 in the e30, now thats power!

[Davenotouring]

S50 in E30 = brilliant!

[Simon13]

nah S38 more power and 300lbs of torque 3.8 styleee

[M5pilot]

S38 = ball ache getting it in and changing anything like plugs......but what a car it would make!

E36 M3 3.2 is a superbly balanced machine and a real weapon round the track.

Prices seem to be rising for good ones now.

Sal

[Dan318-is]

If, however, you like to feel like you're on coke all the time-living on adrenaline and 6+k revs, the iS is for you.

Both are great cars, just in different ways.

As for the "m42 heads blow, m20 heads blow" as long as the coolant is changed REGULARLY, and you service both engines well, they're both liable to be as reliable as a rolex,but with significantly more go

both those points mirrow my views exactly neil

[Dan318-is]

i also have to echo what sal said about ian haynes car; that thing is a machine!

dave thats a great comparison between the b16 and the m20!

but have you ever seen a b16 head

[Bob_S]

the "is" is the affordable sport.
Simple as that, it's better on fuel, the insurance is cheaper, they dont rust as bad, there seem to be less cooling issues with the M42.

However being as the big debate is mainly on fuel usage, I'd suggest a nice frugal 106 diesel for your commuting

[Davenotouring]

dave thats a great comparison between the b16 and the m20!

but have you ever seen a b16 head

Thanks mate, just showing that the M20 is poor in terms of power/cc

B16 head is awesome. Awesome tolerances on the Hondas. M20 is guesswork. Haha! just kidding, before you all start crying.

[Dan318-is]

yes the head is silly. im still not fully aware of how it operates either. its complicated shit, still got no torque and driving the wrong wheels tho!

[Davenotouring]

Lets not start the wrong wheels one again!

Yeah, it's got no torque, but it also weighs..............fu*k all!

See if your mind is changed after a lap at the 'Ring.

[Dan318-is]

i cant argue with that

[Splondike]

The only people who call them the baby M3 are iS owners, usually when they are trying to sell them to the unsuspecting public...

I have a Sport bias as I have owned one and driven a few... I love the noise and the way the power is delivered, makes me smile every time I plant my foot... I have driven an iS a while ago and it was very nice...

As for the engine weight difference - how much is it, less than 20Kg ? Blimey I could eat a few extra pies over the weekend and and undo all the good my wild cam or btb manifold is doing or even worse make my sport as slow as an iS Why in all the figures is the 325i quicker than the iS - because it is....

They have different merits which have been stated, ie the iS is better on fuel, less prone to rust (unless it has a tech II kit on it) cheaper to insure , and handles like an M3 (eerm ok then....)

How many people drive them so close to the limit that they would really get the benefit of that mahoooooosive weight advantage anyway ! These days many are so old and shagged it would be more likely down to which had been the better maintained etc...

This subject is always good for giggle..

Oh and Mr Notouring I guess there is no point in comparing the M42 and the V-tech either ?

[Davenotouring]

Your points are very valid Mark, most of my chat here is banter. I think a good 325 will beat a good 318iS, but there's not as much in it as many think.

Honda B16 1.6 = 160bhp
BMW M42 1.8 = 140bhp

They are getting there!

[Splondike]

Your points are very valid Mark, most of my chat here is banter. I think a good 325 will beat a good 318iS, but there's not as much in it as many think.

Honda B16 1.6 = 160bhp
BMW M42 1.8 = 140bhp

They are getting there!

I know mate...pretty impressive.

You can see why the Civic will rip up a 2.5

[Davenotouring]

BMW is classier though, and looks nicer (a Sport anyway!)

I can see the argument from boths sides unlike some. Pointing no fingers. *ahem* most of you lot *ahem*

[Dan318-is]

the arguement from the six point corner i can empathise with; i no they sound nice and are theoretically more balanced, but just because you have six cylinders it doesnt render the engine superior! thats almost an american mentality; bigger is better you know what i mean?

il take an s54 please

actaully il have the best of both worlds and have a five pot, out of the s2 please!

[Davenotouring]

bigger is better you know what i mean?

So true!

[Bob_S]

But lest we forget as BMW say, Apart from the M3 sports car, the new BMW 318is is the most dynamic model in the range"

[tim_s]

Lol. I think most of us have bought our respective cars for a reason, and there are obviously benefits to each engine.

for the weight difference thing, to be fair its not jsut the engine, the 318is are lighter full stop by almost 100kgs. plus the engine sits very far back in the engine bay, further than the S14, compared to the m20 which puts way more weight past the front sus. turrets. I also have a handful of articles from back in the day that call the 318is the 'baby m3' - it was the motoring press and BMW marketing who played that game, although sure lots of owners have taken it up.

Honda V-tecs are very impressive indeed. I've not spent enough time with them, its mighty impressive the piston speeds that they get away with and still make an engine that is quite reliable. im a big S2000 fan, front mid-engined rwd 4 pot rightness
sadly my friend who had one and really used it managed to destroy a bottom end after 40,000 miles. surely the price of running such high piston speeds on a road car?

[GBE30]

I would have to say that in my opinion they are both great cars.

The 318IS is a great all round car lacks power at low revs and requires more gear changes but comes alive in the higher rev band.

The 325i will pull in any gear and makes a brilliant noise and super smooth power.

I love them both and own an IS now due to fuel consumption reasons only.

Neutral but leaning toward 325i Sport as a preferance but extremely happy with my 318is!