Oulton park circuit! Who went and what happened..!!

[andyp]

yeah not bad following them cars round kind of made you look a good driver

[Demlotcrew]

No that was the MK60 DSC a‘a

[andyp]

car looked like it went very well

[Jon_Bmw]

That was a good video Andrew. I am still not sure I would like telemetry in my own car, I'd be forever critisising myself for being generally hamfisted and mostly useless and it all being clear as day for me to see it.

One thing I notice is that when you have a car in front you do not get near the braking performance of the car. This is the difference I badly suffer from compared to a 'racing' driving I think. A racing driving(even on track days) is hitting 1.2g or whatever the max braking g force is for the car every time whether there is a car infront or not! I have been out with a few pilots and they are always the same. Max braking and I think over pressurizing the car in front. But they soon carve their way through traffic whereas I find myself being too nice and waiting for a written invitation!!!!

I would be interested if you could post up some basic telemetry for one of the laps in the video to see how it all works when comparing to the video. Perhaps speed, braking and cornering G to keep it simple for morons like me. Your gear indicator needs sorting!

[Demlotcrew]

Cheers Jon, I know what you mean, but this is a club day and its best to play nice. Its very easy to get carried away and you just don't know how experienced the other drivers are, so I just try to give everyone a wide birth.

For me, the data is there to show how my additions and modifications are playing out, plus its good to refer too and to debunk some myths and conventions.

Here are some interesting data plots.

Highest braking G's on the fastest lap was at the end of the pit straight @1.457g (hard to see blue crosshair on the map).



Highest cornering G's was after Foulstones @ 1.894g (hard to see blue crosshair on the map).



The next one is of Speed, Braking and Cornering (GPS map is speed coloured - hot fast, cold slow).



Also some other interesting plots.

Lap Lon Track report.



Lon G's vs Pressure



Damper Histograms - Theres a wiring fault with the front left, but because the rear right 'bins' are looking good I know its all gravy. (You can tell my front damper settings are set higher than my rears )



Damper frequency report (again front left not working correctly - ground loop fault).



Understeer/oversteer with LSD slip ratios - Oversteer is mostly down to my bad heel toe and shift locking on the downshift otherwise its extremely neutral to drive with little or no weight over the rear axle.



Tyres are Khumo V70's in hard with a square size of 205 45 16.

All of the above is from Lap #2, let me know what you think

[Jon_Bmw]

Andrew,

Thanks for posting those. I am far to thick to understand the damper ones, so I will park them to one side.

"this is a club day and its best to play nice. Its very easy to get carried away and you just don't know how experienced the other drivers are, so I just try to give everyone a wide birth." - Totally agree. I remember being a passenger with a pretty serious pilot in something underpowered. We came extremely close to wiping out a priceless Bentley and being collected by a 360 challenge car under braking at Copse. 3 wide does not go.

From the video I watched last night, before the telemetry was up, the corner after druids looked to me your 'worse' corner. Alas a video hides a multitude of sins, like a damp or greasy surface compared to elsewhere.

Looking at the telemetry, baring in mind this is my first time(be nice!) I think that corner is the one shown below:



From that I think if the conditions were the same there as they are at corner 1(after pits) you could make some gains there. You -ve G line there is more like what I would expect when you are braking on a corner(or being more tentative for a grip reason). Compare it to corner 1, where the G line is closer to a vertical. This is also backed up by your brake pressure at this point being lower than any other 'hard' braking points on the circuit.

I have never driven Oulton park, but from the video and circuit map it looks to me like a hard braking point then 90'ish right. It may be TOTALLY different to that in reality. What do you think?

I also noticed that you have the white M3 in front of you, so you probably have that in the back of your mind as well.

What do you think? You were driving, is that the max braking effort you can apply here? From the video alone it looks almost like a temporary coast and then brake. I have an idea, for that corner, could you post your accelerator position and brake on the same graph?


I am very impressed by the telemetry though. What records all this data for you? I think I need to go re-read your build thread.

Nothing above is meant as criticism by the way, I am certain you can pilot a RWD car faster than I can!

[Demlotcrew]

I have never driven Oulton park, but from the video and circuit map it looks to me like a hard braking point then 90'ish right. It may be TOTALLY different to that in reality. What do you think?

I also noticed that you have the white M3 in front of you, so you probably have that in the back of your mind as well.

What do you think? You were driving, is that the max braking effort you can apply here? From the video alone it looks almost like a temporary coast and then brake. I have an idea, for that corner, could you post your accelerator position and brake on the same graph?

I am very impressed by the telemetry though. What records all this data for you? I think I need to go re-read your build thread.

Nothing above is meant as criticism by the way, I am certain you can pilot a RWD car faster than I can!

Looking at the data I would say that your interpretation is pretty much spot on Jon. Comparing my fastest lap (S7/L2) with my fastest sector time at Lodge corner (S3/L2) I was not braking as hard, shown by low g's and low brake pressure.



Here is a lap on lap overlay (rose is session 3 and blue is session 7)



My line is also different. On the day I don't remember Lodge Corner being that greasy, Im not sure why Im not braking hard, maybe the perceived speed and tight corner not sure, but certainly can do much better.

No issues with criticism, just glad you find this interesting

The system is based on an AIM MXL Dash, sensors are ex F1 Ferrari from 2012, all speeds and steering angles are from the E46 MK60 CSL ABS/DSC over CAN. So far everything seems to be working very nicely, next up is to fit ride height sensors front and rear for aero downforce calcs and other interesting plots.





Andrew

[winx]

Such a shame I couldn't make this, looks and sounds like a good day out!
I will try and make the next car club day, looks like fun with mostly BMWs on track.

[Demlotcrew]

It was a great day, way better than some of the others I've been too. Very few cars, great atmosphere and only a small handful of Red flags.

Would recommend

[si911t]

Good show chaps i watched all of it and did not get bored.. Well done

Leigh

[Jon_Bmw]

Its good to see how hard you were back on the throttle on the Rose line at that corner as well, especially as it is the start of one of the longer straights.

I could spend hours beating myself up over data like this!

Slightly off topic, has an S54 Z3M got an MK60 ABS/DSC? I have a really I read somewhere that the late Z3's got Mk60 as standard, but the Z3Ms got Mk20 or 40 iirc.

[Demlotcrew]

There is so much information to be had, Ive started getting in to really interesting Math channels and will try to post some up later.

Im not sure on what the criteria actually is for the Z3, I have feeling that DSC on the Z3 was a very expensive option like the early cars. I have yet to see an S54 Z3 with MK60 as most of them had the early S54 configuration.

Just to add, the MK60 on the Z3 is nothing like the later CSL units, not only in software but also in hardware, its a very toned down version with less control valves and no private DSC speed sensor CAN network, I do not think this would be a favourable upgrade.

[Demlotcrew]

Good show chaps i watched all of it and did not get bored.. Well done

Leigh

[Demlotcrew]

Jon,

Ive been working on some more math channels. I have added three to the lineup of exactly what you were discussing above.

Throttle Application Speed
Brake Aggressions
Brake Release

Ive set these up as a profile now so only have to double click and the view comes up.



So far I have.



Getting there.

[e30Passion]

Now that was a bit of footage i thoroughly enjoyed!!. Just the sound alone was worth it! Good drive to

[Demlotcrew]

I watched the video last night after your post and I hate the rattling going on, I found the exhaust bracket bolts have sheered on one half, this would explain the noise.

Thats the second time its failed, time for a beefed up version in ti......

[andyp]

watch out for the extra weight

[Demlotcrew]

Ti is lighter than steel

[andyp]

arrr ok let you off, was just checking as I knew that

[Demlotcrew]