m52 vs m30

[leeparkes]

Standard M30 1/4 mile time is never below 15 seconds, say no more...

Now you know you're lying there.

With a totally standard M30 in a lardy facelift shell i got 14.5, still had the 20kg dualmass fly fitted.
The Alpina ran 14.2 with it running like a bag of shit, iirc it put down 230odd hp pre rolling road fettling.
Id put a lot of money down it would easily get into the 13's now.

Ive ran both M30 and M52 side by side albeit the M52 is in a compact but there pretty much an E30 in drag.

On the road (where its most important) you really have to wind an M52 up before you get going, with an M30 the power is always there pretty much from tick over.
The only way i can describe it is an M52 will gradually pull you in the seat as you go through the revs whereas an M30 will kick you in the seat and keep you there from as little as 2k.

Yes the M52 does well up the strip but imo beemerlads times in his chromie was down to the weight of it, bog standard chromie with a light alloy engine must of only weighed about 1100kg max!
iirc he was getting mid 14's with the same engine in his touring.

Which do i prefer? yes the M52 is a better more refined engine but no where near as much fun as an M30.

[magpie]

Rav is talking about Lee's (beemerlads) chromie, it just so happens to be one of two standard M52B28 E30's I know of thats done a quarter mile run in under 14 seconds...

you forgot Craigeeb, he done a sub 14 at york in his m52 .

then there's Lee and Nathan so that's three and i'm having that fourth musketeer slot this year .......

[retroboyo]

Ive said it before, and I'll say it again. The M30 is the best engine in the world. Not the most fuel efficient, not the lightest, just the best. If you want the lightest and most fuel efficient buy a Micra.

[magpie]

why would i want a micra ? i have a 24v that runs 14.6 secs [m50 2.5] down the strip and returns over 30 mpg driven respectfully <<<<< hard to grasp for the steam blowers .

this engine will make way for an m52 this year ,no way would i take a step backwards and think prehistoric things

you can go torque your head off until your blue in the face

[DanThe]

Standard M30 1/4 mile time is never below 15 seconds, say no more...

Now you know you're lying there.

With a totally standard M30 in a lardy facelift shell i got 14.5, still had the 20kg dualmass fly fitted.
The Alpina ran 14.2 with it running like a bag of shit, iirc it put down 230odd hp pre rolling road fettling.
Id put a lot of money down it would easily get into the 13's now.

Ive ran both M30 and M52 side by side albeit the M52 is in a compact but there pretty much an E30 in drag.

On the road (where its most important) you really have to wind an M52 up before you get going, with an M30 the power is always there pretty much from tick over.
The only way i can describe it is an M52 will gradually pull you in the seat as you go through the revs whereas an M30 will kick you in the seat and keep you there from as little as 2k.

Yours is the only one then Lee, ive not noticed many other M30 conversions running at santa pod
You will always have to rev a smaller capacity engine more and with it being 4v per cylinder thats what they do best, once the capacity starts going up in an M52 it makes a big difference as it would with any other engine, my 3.0 dyno'd at 239lbsft and the 3.2 is 250 odd

But to answer the OP's question, if you want to go diffin then just buy an M30, it will take the abuse better, if you want something for everyday usability/trackwork then buy an M52

[Grrrmachine]

If you want more details on these or any other swaps (more coming soon) then it's all available here:

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... gine_Swaps

[Andyboy]

I'd imagine most M30's are 213'000 mile donks pulled out of G reg 535i autos giving 186 bhp at best. A really good healthy example with the full 215 bhp is very good. Trouble now is finding a good one.

[Rav335uk]

Or you can rebuild one.

[retroboyo]

Yeah, I think they are harder to find now. I look for E34 540s and there used to be loads of them, hardly any now.

[retroboyo]

why would i want a micra ? i have a 24v that runs 14.6 secs [m50 2.5] down the strip and returns over 30 mpg driven respectfully <<<<< hard to grasp for the steam blowers .

this engine will make way for an m52 this year ,no way would i take a step backwards and think prehistoric things

you can go torque your head off until your blue in the face

Unfortunately its still not the best, the M30 is

[Andyboy]

The best BMW engine I've owned was in a 1982 Alpina B9 3.5. That one had the full 245 bhp and by Christ it was fast, even hauling 1500kg of E28 along. The M30 also sounds better - it has a really deep, old fashioned grunty sound the M52 doesn't have. There is an appeal also (to me anyway) to the sheer old fashioned-ness of it, manual adjust tappets, AFM, no cam sensor or pissing about with EWS crap.
However, the mpg is against them. I wouldn't have one for everyday use at 22 mpg but as a plaything, why not?

[magpie]

why would i want a micra ? i have a 24v that runs 14.6 secs [m50 2.5] down the strip and returns over 30 mpg driven respectfully <<<<< hard to grasp for the steam blowers .

this engine will make way for an m52 this year ,no way would i take a step backwards and think prehistoric things

you can go torque your head off until your blue in the face

Unfortunately its still not the best, the M30 is

[retroboyo]

The M30 always sounded more like a jet than an engine to me, I loved it.

An 1982 Alpina B9 3.5. = moocho respect

[e30topless]

i have had lots, 3,5,7 series with M30's and later turds with M52's and a few E30's with M30's and a few with M50/M52's
all were great cars in their own right.. for me it's a healthy m30 they have soul and a lovely torque curve

leave the m52 in an E36 it's a better car and more suited

if you really have to have 24v's and molest an E30 go S50... with all the hassle involved you may as well have a decent mill

[penton08]

if you really have to have 24v's and molest an E30 go S50... with all the hassle involved you may as well have a decent mill

While i genuinely love the s50 lump I have been there and done that, the s50 is a great donk and wins hands down at higher speeds but Dan's m52'd chariot has always been quicker up the 1/4 mile. My best time in 3 years with a s50 was 13.9, with a m52 I have done a 13.8 first year out.

[jmc330i]

the s50 is a great donk and wins hands down at higher speeds but Dan's m52'd chariot has always been quicker up the 1/4 mile. My best time in 3 years with a s50 was 13.9, with a m52 I have done a 13.8 first year out.

I think I remember you writing something similar before. Just out of interest, were you using the standard flywheel on your S50?

[penton08]

the s50 is a great donk and wins hands down at higher speeds but Dan's m52'd chariot has always been quicker up the 1/4 mile. My best time in 3 years with a s50 was 13.9, with a m52 I have done a 13.8 first year out.

I think I remember you writing something similar before. Just out of interest, were you using the standard flywheel on your S50?

Yes mate, the s50 still had the dual mass fitted. However my mate has a b32 with a l/w fly and he never got into the 14's. He uses the same excuse as Rav though with his car being a cab.

[Rav335uk]

Nathan, you know the cabs are heavier

[penton08]

Heavy cars, rough runners all sounds like loser talk to me

[leeparkes]

My best time in 3 years with a s50 was 13.9, with a m52 I have done a 13.8 first year out.

Id say thats down to power to weight, iirc the S50 was in the black 2 door fully dressed with tech-2 etc plus the weight of the heavier S50, the M52 is in a striped out track car.
Cant remember the spec of your cars but is that about right?

[Rav335uk]

Heavy cars, rough runners all sounds like loser talk to me

Heavy cars, yes, rough runner, no.

[penton08]

Yes mate, the black tech 2 weighed in at 1240kg iirc. I would imagine the track turd to be around 1050-1100 kg. My point is if the cars are for like for like there is not a lot in between an s50/m52 on the drag strip.

[jmc330i]

the s50 is a great donk and wins hands down at higher speeds but Dan's m52'd chariot has always been quicker up the 1/4 mile. My best time in 3 years with a s50 was 13.9, with a m52 I have done a 13.8 first year out.

I think I remember you writing something similar before. Just out of interest, were you using the standard flywheel on your S50?

Yes mate, the s50 still had the dual mass fitted. However my mate has a b32 with a l/w fly and he never got into the 14's. He uses the same excuse as Rav though with his car being a cab.

Is it the car being a cab or the drivers......

I only asked because mine had the DMF and I drove one with a lightweight flywheel and it was much quicker off the line than mine - in a quick traffic light GP, I couldnt keep with it all. Only once mine was up and spinning the heavy flwheel did things even out.

[DanThe]

Yes mate, the black tech 2 weighed in at 1240kg iirc. I would imagine the track turd to be around 1050-1100 kg. My point is if the cars are for like for like there is not a lot in between an s50/m52 on the drag strip.

My chromie weighed in at 1160kg with the iron 2.8 I built, ran 13.8's at the pod
I expect to have put on 40-50kg with the alpina/6 speed/brakes but im not shy and usually have a boot full of gear, tools, frag etc.
IMO strip times are more about where in the rev range the power/torque is developed/peaks, an S50 will rev its nuts off and really pull up top, but has poor low down grunt, M52 is more midrange.

All this talk of "do it properly and fit an S50" makes me laugh
I dont rate S50's for a road only car, fantastic engines yes but anything under 7k RPM/100mph is only tickling an S50 and how often can you use that on the road? Keep it for the track where you can use it properly

[leeparkes]

All this talk of "do it properly and fit an S50" makes me laugh

and end up being 6K out of pocket for the pleasure.

[leeparkes]

How much power can be got out of a standard M52 (keeping 2.8 ) with cams remap etc...seem to remember a guy on e36coupe managed 260ish, sure the guys name is T1000 or something like that.
Come to think of it what is the max cc an M50 can be taken to?

[penton08]

How much power can be got out of a standard M52 (keeping 2.8 ) with cams remap etc...seem to remember a guy on e36coupe managed 260ish, sure the guys name is T1000 or something like that.
Come to think of it what is the max cc an M50 can be taken to?

All bhp figures on the internet should be taken with a pinch of salt imo, Evolve's rollers saw a mates e36 m3 @ 319 bhp, on my local rollers he made 280 ish.

245 bhp should be possible on a 2.8 with out spending mega bucks. If i go ahead with my m52 I want 260 out off it, but it will be going 3.0l with a few other trinkets. I am sure 3.2 (maybe even more) can be done with an m50 but that will get expensive real quick.

[DanThe]

260 is absurd for a standard 2.8 IMO, Alpina did a 2.8 and it made 240hp, the 3.0 is 250hp, so there is no way a 2.8 makes a real 260

BMW made pistons which would give 3200cc, you might be able to go a bit further with custom pistons but the walls would be very thin, not something id like to risk.

Ive got all the parts to build a 3.2 M50, was going to put it in my E34 touring but I bought a 540i instead

[DanThe]

Oh and dont forget the Alpina 3.4 which kicks out over 300hp

[leeparkes]

That figure was on e36coupe so must be true.

[Dezzy]

Oh and dont forget the Alpina 3.4 which kicks out over 300hp

Want!

[penton08]

That figure was on e36coupe so must be true.

I'm sure I've seen 240 hp out of a m50 manifold mentioned on e36coupe.

[leeparkes]

You sure it wasnt a Dave-F induction kit?


Ive been searching on there and the only quote i can find is this.

Re: Remap. Where do I go?

Postby T1000 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:57 pm

LittleNick wrote:everyone knows him, he got T1000's 328i running at 263.3bhp ffs!!! the guy is good; trust me



Hang on there Nick......Jason definitely helped in achieving that result and did indeed provide a custom remap for my car but he wasn't the sole reason behind what my engine managed on the day dude. Trust me on this, I put in a "little" bit of effort myself funnily enough

I also think it's important to make the distinction between my fairly heavily modded 328 and most other 328's which won't be running the same mods I did at the time.

What I'm saying is that for anyone considering a remap (regardless of provider) - don't use my car as a gauge for what you should expect from an ECU remap. Your results may differ and if you're miles away from the level of mods I run you won't get anywhere near the figure I did......you need to do far more than use a custom ECU map to achieve that

The mapping Jason did for me suits my car perfectly and I'm delighted with the work he did....but that's VERY different from what you're stating above.

From here...

http://www.bmwowner.com/forum/viewtopic ... 3#p1488073

Im sure theres a build thread on there somewhere but i aint going through 2381 of his posts to find it.

[DanThe]

If thats refering to jason from chipped uk then say no more, the most optimistic rollers in the land, remember the zoom motorsport cabby? He mapped it to 360hp apparently, it was more like 160hp when I was fixing some bodges to make it drivable again

[DanThe]

Oh and dont forget the Alpina 3.4 which kicks out over 300hp

Want!

Id pull the 3.2 for one