harry, read my posts and other peoples posts!
I never stated it was the best car. I never stated that its better than all newer cars. Thats miles and miles from the point I'm trying to make.
What I'm saying, is that the E30 (as you said) comes from an era where cars where
1. Designed to live for a very long time
2. Reliable
3. Well made
4. Have a feel about them that they were built to be driven. All up and down the countries, around the world. Unfazed by countless miles.
That sort of feel to it.
Its better than modern cars in those terms. Its not quick (well, that quick). Its not incredibly grippy (although nicely balanced and good handling). Its not full of room or gadgets or indeed the most compfy car around. Nothing like that.
What I'm "trying" to point out is that the E30 never feels like it was designed to be disposed of. It wasn't made (well doens't feel like) to last "x" number of years and have happy customers gladdly fork out silly money for the next model.
This sort of feel and design to a car is what I feel the E30 does much better than all these modern cars. I keep getting into modern cars, enjoying the thrill and fun of them, but dont see the worth in giving away my hard earned for something that will start to fall apart then start to become ecomincally unviable to fix becuase of complicated engines and electronics. Theres just no point...
Its a shame that cars aimed to be nice (like modern bmws) are never going to be taken on and fixed in 20 years like the E30s becuase they will just be too much to handle and too much money to do so.
E30s.... better than modern cars? (except newer BMWs?)
Moderator: martauto
I'm not sure anyone is saying that e30s are the best cars ever made, or 'better' than newer cars, it's more a discussion about what the appeal of e30s is 20 odd years down the line. From a purely rational standpoint, I think both e30s and e36s, including compacts, are absolutely amazing value for money at the moment - what other car can you pick up for £500 - £2000 that ticks quite so many boxes. Obviously I, and others, have a particular passion for the e30 that ignores such cold analysis, which elevates them above e36s for esoteric reasons. I'm sure that e30 values will begin to sharply rise in the next few years, and the strata of ownership will change also. Indeed, in the year or so I have been on this site, it's my feeling that more and more owners are coming at e30s from a 'classic' viewpoint, rather than simply the 'cheap and RWD' attitude that has most likely prevailed ever since e30s became affordable. Just look at what happened with mkI & II escorts, values have disappeared into the distance, with even basket cases of the cooking models changing hands for hundreds. It's obviously open to debate whether or not one sees this as a good thing.
I think it's likely that despite our current fear of the increasing complexity of newer cars, there will always be those who wish to keep them going, albeit in vastly reduced numbers. Back in the eighties, it was probably inconceivable that e30s would be kept going now by so many diyers - the view would have been that once an ecu goes, or those troublesome brake pipes, or rot in some of the complex body joins, that the cars would be consigned to the scrapheap by almost anyone. As time goes on, there will likely be a growth in the required knowledge to keep todays cars running into their dotage by enthusiasts. Also, just as there are deviants out there who will keep allegros and other junk running, so there will be pervs debating the merits of rust protection to mkIV astra tailgates in 20 years time.
The only thing I can see making major waves would be widespread adoption of alternative fuels, rendering all classics obsolete for anything other than curiosity - collectors would still exist, but perhaps the lock-ups full of crusty MGB 'projects' by normalish punters would be forced of the planet. A shame if it were to happen, but the attitude to internal combustion is only moving one way - it's a matter of how fast or slow this movement is whether or not we see such things in our lifetimes.
I think it's likely that despite our current fear of the increasing complexity of newer cars, there will always be those who wish to keep them going, albeit in vastly reduced numbers. Back in the eighties, it was probably inconceivable that e30s would be kept going now by so many diyers - the view would have been that once an ecu goes, or those troublesome brake pipes, or rot in some of the complex body joins, that the cars would be consigned to the scrapheap by almost anyone. As time goes on, there will likely be a growth in the required knowledge to keep todays cars running into their dotage by enthusiasts. Also, just as there are deviants out there who will keep allegros and other junk running, so there will be pervs debating the merits of rust protection to mkIV astra tailgates in 20 years time.
The only thing I can see making major waves would be widespread adoption of alternative fuels, rendering all classics obsolete for anything other than curiosity - collectors would still exist, but perhaps the lock-ups full of crusty MGB 'projects' by normalish punters would be forced of the planet. A shame if it were to happen, but the attitude to internal combustion is only moving one way - it's a matter of how fast or slow this movement is whether or not we see such things in our lifetimes.
"doughnuts - power braking in circles" Peterborough Evening Telegraph
Well replied!
TBH, I personally want what Jay Leno said about cars on the topic of alternative fuels/transport (he's a big collector, if you didn't know!). He believes if those hydrogen cars where quicky adopted or some alternative fuel, that will be (could be) the saviour of our petrol cars. The Horse saved the army, the car saved the horse and now these "new breed" of cars could be the cars we keep on our roads and use from day to day, but save enough petrol for the petrol-heads to enjoy their classic motors on the weekends.
If the world does go like that, then it would be nice to keep our cars and still be able to use them, rather than me at 60 years old with my E30 in the garage saying "I used to be able to drive that, now I cant even get any petrol to hear it!"
Life will change... no doubt about it with Honda pushing forward that hydrogen car (infinite energy, no harmful emmisions... just water and oxygen!) that can do 70mph fine and drive like your average 1.6 with a similar milage... pure genious if you ask me. They may even get to the point where those cars are incredibly fast, cheap and fun like the modern cars of today!
True there will always be the perve's who discuss how to keep their fait 500 abarath rust free and even fiestas and so on. But the market for them will be so different to classic car markets today if the current trend of cars continues. But I cant forsee any of them becoming an Icon of our era.
TBH, I personally want what Jay Leno said about cars on the topic of alternative fuels/transport (he's a big collector, if you didn't know!). He believes if those hydrogen cars where quicky adopted or some alternative fuel, that will be (could be) the saviour of our petrol cars. The Horse saved the army, the car saved the horse and now these "new breed" of cars could be the cars we keep on our roads and use from day to day, but save enough petrol for the petrol-heads to enjoy their classic motors on the weekends.
If the world does go like that, then it would be nice to keep our cars and still be able to use them, rather than me at 60 years old with my E30 in the garage saying "I used to be able to drive that, now I cant even get any petrol to hear it!"
Life will change... no doubt about it with Honda pushing forward that hydrogen car (infinite energy, no harmful emmisions... just water and oxygen!) that can do 70mph fine and drive like your average 1.6 with a similar milage... pure genious if you ask me. They may even get to the point where those cars are incredibly fast, cheap and fun like the modern cars of today!
True there will always be the perve's who discuss how to keep their fait 500 abarath rust free and even fiestas and so on. But the market for them will be so different to classic car markets today if the current trend of cars continues. But I cant forsee any of them becoming an Icon of our era.
Uni is killing the project.
One thing that has definitely made cars uglier since the E30 era is all the safety/ Euro NCAP requirements. The glass area on a 2 door E30 can trace a lineage back to cars like the 2002 and the CSL.. After the E30 cars definitely got chubbier and uglier. The distance between the window and the dashboard seems to be increasingly too. Massive ugly C pillars too. The most bloated modern I can think of is the 307CC , defintiely worse ones out there though 
Last edited by rh306 on Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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e30topless
- E30 Zone Team Member
- Posts: 13598
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- Location: surrounded by scrap
e30 for me everytime 
I owned much newer BMW's for a short while but it wasn't long before i went back to the e30
the e46 330ci was great on the motorway but I don't do that many miles.
I look at other cars on the road and they just don't appeal to me
I owned much newer BMW's for a short while but it wasn't long before i went back to the e30
the e46 330ci was great on the motorway but I don't do that many miles.
I look at other cars on the road and they just don't appeal to me
I too have heard this view - I guess I'm just a natural pessimist! Jay Leno's collection is pretty impressive, there were some pics of one of his storage barns in C & SC a few months back, awesome. Ralph Lauren's collection is probably the most outrageous, in terms of sheer capital investment, that I've heard of - some incredible cars, although often vandalised by over-restoration. Oh, if I had the money... I actually know a bloke who works for Nick Mason, maintaining some of his fleet - lucky git gets to drive them too!NayC wrote:Well replied!
TBH, I personally want what Jay Leno said about cars on the topic of alternative fuels/transport (he's a big collector, if you didn't know!). He believes if those hydrogen cars where quicky adopted or some alternative fuel, that will be (could be) the saviour of our petrol cars. The Horse saved the army, the car saved the horse and now these "new breed" of cars could be the cars we keep on our roads and use from day to day, but save enough petrol for the petrol-heads to enjoy their classic motors on the weekends.
If the world does go like that, then it would be nice to keep our cars and still be able to use them, rather than me at 60 years old with my E30 in the garage saying "I used to be able to drive that, now I cant even get any petrol to hear it!"
Life will change... no doubt about it with Honda pushing forward that hydrogen car (infinite energy, no harmful emmisions... just water and oxygen!) that can do 70mph fine and drive like your average 1.6 with a similar milage... pure genious if you ask me. They may even get to the point where those cars are incredibly fast, cheap and fun like the modern cars of today!
True there will always be the perve's who discuss how to keep their fait 500 abarath rust free and even fiestas and so on. But the market for them will be so different to classic car markets today if the current trend of cars continues. But I cant forsee any of them becoming an Icon of our era.
Back to e30s, I reckon there is something to be said for their position, certainly in my memory, as a milestone on the 'yuppy bright-red-car-to-match-the-braces progress chart' - it starts at Golf GTI (or, at a push, 205 GTI), then e30 325i, Audi Quattro, Porsche 911 Carrera, And ultimately Ferrari Testarossa (usually stashed away with minimal mileage for 'prospecting' purposes - they didn't realise that they'd all come out of hiding at the same time, making values rock bottom today!). All 80s Icons, and disgusting as the decade was at the time, nostalgia ain't what it used to be - hence my urge to own examples of all the cars on the list, with the exception of the Ferrari (and I'd rather a pre-74, steel bumper 911 if given the choice!). Is there anything more wanky than a Ferrari? If I had one, I'd only go out in it at night, so people couldn't see me!
EDIT - I guess a Bobby Ewing Merc SL has to fit in somewhere too, perhaps between the Quattro and Porker. It was acceptable in the eighties...
"doughnuts - power braking in circles" Peterborough Evening Telegraph
My belief is that the E39 BMW 5 Series is possibly the best BMW ever made......
Cant think of any faults with them whatsoever, had 2 535i Sports with the v8 engine and a 530i sports with the 6 cylinder engine, both felt like new and both put a smile on your face yet still managed to take you in comfort...
Not known a better BMW since or before...
Stu
Cant think of any faults with them whatsoever, had 2 535i Sports with the v8 engine and a 530i sports with the 6 cylinder engine, both felt like new and both put a smile on your face yet still managed to take you in comfort...
Not known a better BMW since or before...
Stu
The press were very fond of the 'best car in the world' tag on the e39 while it was in production - pretty high praise, and something that will be dragged up when they are ancient. Nice motors, though I'd need something small and pointy too if I owned one.RSTurbo50 wrote:My belief is that the E39 BMW 5 Series is possibly the best BMW ever made......
Cant think of any faults with them whatsoever, had 2 535i Sports with the v8 engine and a 530i sports with the 6 cylinder engine, both felt like new and both put a smile on your face yet still managed to take you in comfort...
Not known a better BMW since or before...
Stu
"doughnuts - power braking in circles" Peterborough Evening Telegraph
ALL Jap cars feel like this to me, old and new!capri_rob wrote:Most of the mass market stuff I have had other than E30's has felt disposable in comparison to how well BMW used to put cars together....
...it felt so plasticky and cheap - designed to be obselete and thrown away within a few years.
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Jesus325iTouring
- Frog freak !
- Posts: 11356
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Having only driven one "modern" car I have to say there is no way I would exchange it for my E30.
The car in question was a 58 plate Vectra CDTi.
It had one good feature,cruise control.Thats it.
I hated the seats,the super light steering,the 6 speed g/box,the dreadfull vision due to so many airbags,the need for so many revs to pull away,I was always stalling it when doing those sort of rolling 2nd gear pull aways,the stupid indicators and wiper stalks......I could go on.
Seems to me,things have been messed with for no real good gain,give an old car any day of the week,atleast you know where you stand with it.
The car in question was a 58 plate Vectra CDTi.
It had one good feature,cruise control.Thats it.
I hated the seats,the super light steering,the 6 speed g/box,the dreadfull vision due to so many airbags,the need for so many revs to pull away,I was always stalling it when doing those sort of rolling 2nd gear pull aways,the stupid indicators and wiper stalks......I could go on.
Seems to me,things have been messed with for no real good gain,give an old car any day of the week,atleast you know where you stand with it.
X5 V8 for thrills, CRV for chills, Range Rover P38 V8 for sooooo much aggravation...
Very true.djk wrote:The press were very fond of the 'best car in the world' tag on the e39 while it was in production - pretty high praise, and something that will be dragged up when they are ancient. Nice motors, though I'd need something small and pointy too if I owned one.RSTurbo50 wrote:My belief is that the E39 BMW 5 Series is possibly the best BMW ever made......
Cant think of any faults with them whatsoever, had 2 535i Sports with the v8 engine and a 530i sports with the 6 cylinder engine, both felt like new and both put a smile on your face yet still managed to take you in comfort...
Not known a better BMW since or before...
Stu
Have to admit a fondness for the E34 5 Series myself. Properly looked and felt as though it was carved out of granite.
Sold: 1986 E30 325i Cabriolet, Alpine White
