its a question of bhp

[m1key]

try again,

Are they better than the standard injection system ?

Is it going to give me a gain in power or not worth the cost ?

[Chaos]

try again,

Are they better than the standard injection system ?

Is it going to give me a gain in power or not worth the cost ?

power gain yes.
but its not as good as injection "could" be.

the ideal setup is individual throttle bodies - this combines the airflow from a carb setup with the metered fuelling from fuel injection

[astondg]

Is a MAF conversion worth it? How much power does a MAF conversion usually give? Is the power curve much better? My 2.3 has a MAP sensor (so no restriction at all in the intake) that was done at the same time as the standalone ECU. The MAP sensor part gave probably 2 hp (whole thing including ECU, exhaust and 6 branch, and MAP gave 10hp over standard). For 2 hp I wouldn't really bother but maybe it helps the 2.5s more since they need more air.

EDIT: I didn't see the post by MONSPORT42. The MAP and ECU combined on mine has made a slight difference to throttle response but nothing spectacular (you have to be concentrating on it to notice). I suppose it would be better in a 2.7 than a 2.3 though.

Next I am thinking about a 272 cam (maybe more but I don't want a really bad idle), more compression, BBTB, and maybe FPR and injectors if they are needed. If I could get close to 180hp it would be good but that doesn't look likely.

About carbs: I think what Chaos said is right maybe it's easier and/or cheaper to get more power with something like tripple webbers but a proper fuel injection setup with the right injectors and FPR, individual throttle bodies and a standalone fully programable engine management system I think en engine can make just as much power and still drive normally at low rpm.

Aston

[M5pilot]

I always come to the same conclusion as Karan does, rather than spending thousands on a cam, throttle bodies,2.7 conversion, MAF conversion.........etc etc etc,

Its better to just go buy a proper factory built engine like the E36 M3 lump:

For your Ԛ£2000 (old price, dont know what they are worth now) you get:

Individual Throttle Bodies
ECU to match so no endless mapping to do
Already has a MAF
Already has a 6 branch
Has even larger capacity (3.0 or 3.2)
Has 2 camshafts! anddouble the amount of valves
Gives 280+ bhp out of the box minimum
Comes with a gearbox!

If you try to get the M20 to a similar capacity and spec you have to do:

Dbilas TB's - Ԛ£1400 min
3.0 Ireland Engineering Kit - Ԛ£1500
Build the engine - Ԛ£1500 (machining, gaskets, labour,bearing etc)
Cam - Ԛ£500
Port Head to the max - Ԛ£500 min
MAF Conversion - Ԛ£800 (Unichip, airfilter, 2nd hand MAF etc)
6 Branch - Ԛ£400

Thats Ԛ£6600!! + other costs which are going to come into it.

The result would be what? 250bhp if your lucky?

It makes alot of sense to just go and fit a 3.0/3.2 lump.

There are no issues with handling at all, Ive been in Ian's car and it handled great.

[astondg]

I am sure it can handle really well but probably not as well as if it had less weight on the front, well not as balanced anyway. The Lancer Evolution & Impreza STI series are good examples, they both have about 60% weight on the front and handle very well so it can be done. They might be even better if they were 50/50 though. There are also the traction issues with that much power and the limited tyre width that can fit on an E30. I'm all for an engine change and I really like the M3 engines, i am just not convinced yet that the E36 engine is the best one for an E30.

Aston

[M5pilot]

I can only go by what Ive seen and been in. Ian's car done really well on the track aswell.

I agree that traction can be an issue though hence why some of the 0-60 times on 3.2 E30's arent what you'd expect them to be.

[PeteE30Tourer]

standard 2.5 m20

add in the following

zone chip
decent 6 branch manifold
scorpion exhaist (or similar)
bbtb
schrick 288/288

This is almost identical to the spec my car will have next week, though i've gone for the 272/284 DBilas cam (much cheaper than the Schrick).

Without the cam, but everything else, my 2.5 only put out 159bhp at the last rolling road day, but it was said to be overfueling and hence loosing power. The curves were very good though. After the cam is fitted and i've upgraded the chip, I'll be putting it on the rolling road again soon, so i'll let you know what it does then.

[rich_e30]

I am looking for one of these camshafts (272/284) but was put off by the price of the schrick. So DBilas...

How Much?

And where from?

[PeteE30Tourer]

I am looking for one of these camshafts (272/284) but was put off by the price of the schrick. So DBilas...

How Much?

And where from?

Bought mine for about Ԛ£200 plus another Ԛ£100 for the uprated springs (which some folk thought necessary, some thought not) from this company advertising on german ebay. Haven't got the details of them with me, but i'll post them up later if i get a chance.

[rich_e30]

They look good?

And i would greatly appreciate the details!

[astondg]

I can only go by what Ive seen and been in. Ian's car done really well on the track aswell.

I believe that it handles very well and if it handles as good as you want then that is fine, I imagine it would handle well enough for me too. I was just saying that with less weight on the front it could ultimately be even better balanced, I think this was a reason for keeping the E30 M3 a 4 cylinder (also less weight in front of the strut towers).

Aston

[Jimbob]

i personally think this will only give around 185-190bhp

thats only 14 - 19bhp up on standard.

a gain of only 8 - 11% odd for all those mods?

Depends what 'standard' is after 16yrs of driving, Jesus' 325i touring was 130 standard at a rr a while ago if I remember.

[Stevin]

heres what fritzs bits say about the 2.7

Finally the 2.7

The 2.7 ETA engine (block from 5 series economy model) is a long stroke, highÔš'ish torque, low friction loss design exercise made into metal in Munich, to meet the fuel crisis of the late 70Ôš's. The extra capacity (200cc) over the 2.5 is gained through extra crank throw not cylinder diameter, therefore a relatively slow turning engine.

There are ways to wake it up, but we came to the conclusion long ago that its not really worth it.

Some friends in London do a conversion which, we understand, uses the crank from the 2.7 and the block, rods from a 2 ltr or 2.3, and the pistons of a 2.5, with the block decked by some considerable amount to give it some compression.

Beyond that lies full competition tuned no tick over, lumpy at 2000rpm, happy at 3000rpm, going great between 4-7000 rpm all stops out, no prisoners taken, a wheeled rocket.

Can someone pls confirm what rods they used 2lt or 2.3lt ? Cause that could work nicely for what I'm thinking of maybe doing this with an 86mm piston from the Opel 2.0lt Kadette 16v Superboss (supboss used the Cosworth head unique to sa)

[hogweed]

id just like to add that u have to ask ureself whether oits worth spending shedloads tuning the m20 for little return..... personally for my Ԛ£2k id rather stick an e36 m3 3.0l lump in.......this is well documented now and WILL give awesome returns with an everyday driveable car which wi;; be a joy to drive daily

Ummm... yeah... but how much are we talking to have the engine fitted...?

[Karan]

just get the m50 that ian is selling cheap'!

and ull have 190 plus bhp and a multivalve engine that will rev!

[E30BeemerLad]

Karan - what's with the red car in your sig? Is this the motor the beast engine is going in or is that going in tut' GUG?

[320Touring]

Karan - what's with the red car in your sig? Is this the motor the beast engine is going in or is that going in tut' GUG?

that 'd be the iS thats getting the m5 engine

[Karan]

Karan - what's with the red car in your sig? Is this the motor the beast engine is going in or is that going in tut' GUG?

no,,,,, thats my old 318iS...... was a minter.... sold it when i bought GUG...

the new 318iS is pretty much the same looking

engine is not going in the GUG... which im selling at the end of the year or early nxt year...i may diversify from the e30 with jap crap-NOOOOO will still have a runaround e30 though..../stripped out 325 slag!

[320Touring]

Karan - what's with the red car in your sig? Is this the motor the beast engine is going in or is that going in tut' GUG?

no,,,,, thats my old 318iS...... was a minter.... sold it when i bought GUG...

the new 318iS is pretty much the same looking

engine is not going in the GUG... which im selling at the end of the year or early nxt year...i may diversify from the e30 with jap crap-NOOOOO will still have a runaround e30 though..../stripped out 325 slag!

I apologise profusely dear chap!

never paid attention to 4pots

[hogweed]

engine is not going in the GUG... which im selling at the end of the year or early nxt year...i may diversify from the e30 with jap crap-NOOOOO will still have a runaround e30 though..../stripped out 325 slag!

..how much for the old GUG then my friend?

[320Touring]

engine is not going in the GUG... which im selling at the end of the year or early nxt year...i may diversify from the e30 with jap crap-NOOOOO will still have a runaround e30 though..../stripped out 325 slag!

..how much for the old GUG then my friend?

lets see if i get this right......


circa Ԛ£5k?

[orangecurry]

Karan - what's with the red car in your sig? Is this the motor the beast engine is going in or is that going in tut' GUG?

no,,,,, thats my old 318iS...... was a minter.... sold it when i bought GUG...

the new 318iS is pretty much the same looking

engine is not going in the GUG... which im selling at the end of the year or early nxt year...i may diversify from the e30 with jap crap-NOOOOO will still have a runaround e30 though..../stripped out 325 slag!

Jap? not that jap-crap you 'breeze' past?

what would be your motivation?

ps isn't it funny how all the losers in WWII make the best cars?

Except the Italians of course... they were winners, then losers, then winners! How cool is that?

[Rearwheel_nick]

me thinks it something to do with jap mobiles having lots more available parts for drift purpose.

i bought some parts to tune the m20 never got round to fitting them couple hundred quid just pissed away, cos i realised not to bother and go for something with either 1)more valves or 2)much more capacity.

so itd be e36 m3 engine or at least m50/52 orrr orr a big stinking v8 haha which would weigh the front of the car down and upset handling.

my other idea was buy a 2.0 xe vauxhall engine with 220bhp thoght thatd be nice. but that ship sailed on ebay

definately i say if your gona stick with m20 then its gotta be carb power

[glenn]

so itd be e36 m3 engine or at least m50/52 orrr orr a big stinking v8 haha which would weigh the front of the car down and upset handling.

you might be suprised how little difference there is between a
six cylinder iron block and a all aluminium v8 block,
its less than half a tank of juice!!

it would have to be a mill change for me,
what's the most you're gonna get from an m20,
and would it be enough for you.
the more you have, the more you want!!

[Rearwheel_nick]

yeh but the amount of cheapy all alluminium V8's around means id be stuck with an iron block one.

i dont count the rover v8 because i hate that thing.

its always a tough choice more displacement and more lazy power or a more highly tuned engine (a la m3 powerplants)

[M5pilot]

Nothing wrong with some of the "fast and the furious" jap crap out there.

There was an RX7 on the A406 today, it looked evil and the way it went was just amazing. Went and looked like something out of Gran Turismo.............damn damn fast car.

[Karan]

Nothing wrong with some of the "fast and the furious" jap crap out there.

There was an RX7 on the A406 today, it looked evil and the way it went was just amazing. Went and looked like something out of Gran Turismo.............damn damn fast car.

its gonna be an r32 gtr///////// or maybe a follow the crowd s14

[M5pilot]

Im serioulsy considering doing an Evo engine conversion ............

[astondg]

its always a tough choice more displacement and more lazy power or a more highly tuned engine (a la m3 powerplants)

Never a choice for me . For some reason I just can't stand lazy power for my car. I can like cars that have engines like that but I never want to own one myself.

Aston

[A1BMW325iSport]

my other idea was buy a 2.0 xe vauxhall engine with 220bhp thoght thatd be nice. but that ship sailed on ebay

how much you want to pay mate i can prob source one

[Rearwheel_nick]

Never a choice for me . For some reason I just can't stand lazy power for my car. I can like cars that have engines like that but I never want to own one myself.

Aston

its never a choice for me either really, i always want less capacity higher tuned engine....just that its sommetimes far cheaper to just go with lazy power.

i've got a vauxhall xe if i wanted to try that(since there iis sooo much parts supply for them and good tuning background) i'd just be worried i'd miss the singing 6 pot so i'm not committed to that at the mo.

[E30BeemerLad]

totally agree with you nick.

Love the sound of the 6 pot and there is a reasonable amout of torque at low revs, but it's a lazy heap climbing the revs, espacially in 3rd & 4th. Suppose a turbo would liven things up nicely!

[rich_e30]

out of interest how much of a return are the turbo chaps looking at when they are complete?

[E30BeemerLad]

Fozzy is in the middle of a turbo conversion plus standalone ECU - don't know what power he's expecting, but plenty of Porsche baiting is on the cards!

[rich_e30]

We could hold up a bank to raise the funds for turbo too, I will be wheel man...

no wait my car has no engine

you had better drive