m3's on a false pedastal?

[harry_p]

the only reason the cossie can make good power is because so many companies have spent so long developing them, right from when they were new.

probably because all the tuners knew the ford fanboys will gobble up anything with an rs badge and then spend a fortune tuning a pretty ordinary engine. the cossie lump itself isnt really anything special.

[Karan]

indeed, everyone with an ounce of car geekyness is impressed with how far back in the engine bay the s14 is, and how it's canted over to lower it's COG and make room for a decent inlet path.

it's all in the details.

things like the reprofiled rear roof section and raised lightweight bootlid. things it's unlikely you would actually notice on their own, but were obviously worth doing as theyre not really things you'd change just for the fun of it.

all things that add up. the beauty is in the details

its not that far back in the engine bay...

personally i like the m3 for its out the box on track reliability, there are very few cars if any at all which can match that today

[Karan]

pah... light and turbo is where its at

m3 is a great balanced car which is very forgiving for sure, however in standard form in todays world it does lack pace both in a straight line and mid corner from what i have seen on track

that's the point. It's a TWENTY year old car. Next time when you are at the Ring count the numbers of E30 M3's on a weekend and compare with numbers of other "affordable" performance cars.

I do realise this and im not having a dig.

I am just of the opinion that at the current moment it does take a dedicated e30 m3'ist to chose a medium spec e30 m3 over something jap for the same price which will be literally a million times higher spec, fully rose jointed 300+bhp reliably if done correctly etc etc etc
it will however (if rwd) as with any other turbo car be less flexible and controllable mid corner and corner exit due to the inherent turbo on/off poer function- this starts to affect rear tyre temps and reduce grip further! here the e30 m3 would be king.

Im sure you've experienced many more cars on track than i have both driving and passengering, Do you not find rwd turbo cars challenging to drive truly on the limit, as for me this challenge is much of the appeal (and i seem to enjoy it when the car is trying to kill me )

[Colonel Sanders]

Do you not find rwd turbo cars challenging to drive truly on the limit, as for me this challenge is much of the appeal (and i seem to enjoy it when the car is trying to kill me )

thats why im building my engine, just to be pure evil and to be as much fun trying to control it..
thats where its at!!

[Colonel Sanders]

the only reason the cossie can make good power is because so many companies have spent so long developing them, right from when they were new.

probably because all the tuners knew the ford fanboys will gobble up anything with an rs badge and then spend a fortune tuning a pretty ordinary engine. the cossie lump itself isnt really anything special.

the yb lump is legendary! spend a fortune??? where did you get that from?
from a bog standard 204bhp you can spend around 500 or so maybe a little bit more and you get well over 300bhp, if your lucky close to 350bhp?
hardly braking the bank.....
spend 500 on an s14 an you might be lucky to gain a few bhp????

[harry_p]

i know plenty of people running cossies with a supposedly 'cheap' 300 bhp. they dont seem so cheap when you factor in the regular rebuilds they seem to need

[fuzzy]

theres nothing wrong with the engine its down to all the fly by night dodgy tuning 'specialists'. once ive gotten past the original problems i had with my engine due to the 'specialist' using old worn parts ive not had any reliability issues from the engine. now its the clutch thats f****d.
ask random people about cosworth yb or s14 and most will only heard of one of them.......

[SidewaysScouser]

ask random people about cosworth yb or s14 and most will only heard of one of them.......

There we have it folks - finally after nine pages we have a compelling reason to buy a Pinto with a turbo nailed to it....

[pacerpete]

9 out of 10 staffies that have taken the taste (bad) test prefer riding in 'cossies' to any other car , end of !

[SidewaysScouser]

9 out of 10 shaven-headed, sportswear clad, sovereign wearing, tattooed scum that have taken the taste (bad) test prefer riding in 'cossies' to any other car , end of !

+1

[ShakeyC]

If you want to talk about if its worth it, its pedigree and history along with condition of the car dictates it?

To add my worthless 2p the E30M3 is the easiest to handle and drive like quickly hence the paperback fame and the motorsport history adds to it. The 190E Cosworth was never as easy to handle but just as quick in race trim and its failings were more to the team (human/money element) rather than the car itself ability in fairness pretty much the same as E30M3. The Sierra Cosworth (3DR model) was just another level its a far more difficult car to drive quickly than people realise and doubt many can drive it to its full capabilities whereas M3 more people can push it; ultimately Sierra is faster if it has the right man in it which is its own major downfall.

[Colonel Sanders]

i had my cossie for 2 years running close to 400hp and i ragged it rotten every day i had it, never warmed it up properly and it never missed a beat

[fuzzy]

If you want to talk about if its worth it, its pedigree and history along with condition of the car dictates it?

To add my worthless 2p the E30M3 is the easiest to handle and drive like quickly hence the paperback fame and the motorsport history adds to it. The 190E Cosworth was never as easy to handle but just as quick in race trim and its failings were more to the team (human/money element) rather than the car itself ability in fairness pretty much the same as E30M3. The Sierra Cosworth (3DR model) was just another level its a far more difficult car to drive quickly than people realise and doubt many can drive it to its full capabilities whereas M3 more people can push it; ultimately Sierra is faster if it has the right man in it which is its own major downfall.

so to simplify it what your saying is that the m3 is for dummys whereas the cosworth is for the more experienced capable driver .

[M5pilot]

At work we have the following cars at work which belong to us:

E34 M5 3.8 6 Speed
Mazda RX7 with Stupid Power and handles very well
Mitsubishi Evo-6 Tommy Mac edition modified to 350 bhp
BMW Z3M Coupe
Subaru Impreza RA with 380 bhp with hardly any lag whatso ever.
E36 328i Sport

Not everyone will appreciate the above cars saying they are jap crap etc but they are fantastic machines after some fettling

BUT....

All of us still want to own an E30 M3, two of us have owned a couple and regret ever selling them!

I think that says alot about how damn good the E30 M3 is and how it's nothing to do with the power.

[ShakeyC]

If you want to talk about if its worth it, its pedigree and history along with condition of the car dictates it?

To add my worthless 2p the E30M3 is the easiest to handle and drive like quickly hence the paperback fame and the motorsport history adds to it. The 190E Cosworth was never as easy to handle but just as quick in race trim and its failings were more to the team (human/money element) rather than the car itself ability in fairness pretty much the same as E30M3. The Sierra Cosworth (3DR model) was just another level its a far more difficult car to drive quickly than people realise and doubt many can drive it to its full capabilities whereas M3 more people can push it; ultimately Sierra is faster if it has the right man in it which is its own major downfall.

so to simplify it what your saying is that the m3 is for dummys whereas the cosworth is for the more experienced capable driver .

Not what im saying there is a high level of genius in making a car accessible to drive at its limits but also the fact one is much more capable in the right hands.

[fuzzy]

At work we have the following cars at work which belong to us:

E34 M5 3.8 6 Speed
Mazda RX7 with Stupid Power and handles very well
Mitsubishi Evo-6 Tommy Mac edition modified to 350 bhp
BMW Z3M Coupe
Subaru Impreza RA with 380 bhp with hardly any lag whatso ever.
E36 328i Sport

Not everyone will appreciate the above cars saying they are jap crap etc but they are fantastic machines after some fettling

BUT....

All of us still want to own an E30 M3, two of us have owned a couple and regret ever selling them!

I think that says alot about how damn good the E30 M3 is and how it's nothing to do with the power.

but which one do you choose to drive home in?

[agreen]

M5pilot wrote:
At work we have the following cars at work which belong to us:

E34 M5 3.8 6 Speed
Mazda RX7 with Stupid Power and handles very well
Mitsubishi Evo-6 Tommy Mac edition modified to 350 bhp
BMW Z3M Coupe
Subaru Impreza RA with 380 bhp with hardly any lag whatso ever.
E36 328i Sport

Not everyone will appreciate the above cars saying they are jap crap etc but they are fantastic machines after some fettling

BUT....

All of us still want to own an E30 M3, two of us have owned a couple and regret ever selling them!

I think that says alot about how damn good the E30 M3 is and how it's nothing to do with the power.

but which one do you choose to drive home in?

M5 or ZmCoupe all day imo

how is that relivent though ?>

[fuzzy]

M5pilot wrote:
At work we have the following cars at work which belong to us:

E34 M5 3.8 6 Speed
Mazda RX7 with Stupid Power and handles very well
Mitsubishi Evo-6 Tommy Mac edition modified to 350 bhp
BMW Z3M Coupe
Subaru Impreza RA with 380 bhp with hardly any lag whatso ever.
E36 328i Sport

Not everyone will appreciate the above cars saying they are jap crap etc but they are fantastic machines after some fettling

BUT....

All of us still want to own an E30 M3, two of us have owned a couple and regret ever selling them!

I think that says alot about how damn good the E30 M3 is and how it's nothing to do with the power.

but which one do you choose to drive home in?

M5 or ZmCoupe all day imo

how is that relivent though ?>

because what he,s saying is that even though he has that list of cars at his disposal he'd still rather have the m3.

[Andyboy]

Cosworths. A picture is worth a thousand words.

[agreen]

Cosworths. A picture is worth a thousand words.

DID SOMEONE SAY COUNCIL lmfa

awaiting fuzzys reaction 3..2..1....

[fuzzy]

.....go
so whats the punchline? looks pretty fair to me.

[ShakeyC]

Council you never find a complete 3 Door Sierra Cosworth or E30M3 only thing you find there is the odd badge or trim left during the local crack exchange

[Rosc0PColtrane]

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... ic&t=93261

There you go you lot. Now can we all play nicely please???

[HairyScreech]

to say the cossie lump is a zetec is sooo wrong, if anything its a pinto and to say its a trumped up pinto is like saying the s14 is a 16v m10.

[Colonel Sanders]

nice...

[bss325i]

Cosworths are awesome cars, its just a pity the have a huge following of council types pretty much the same with impreza's.

[Demlotcrew]

Whats so special about the cossie lump? Take the turbo off and its your run of the mill four pot as fitted to most mondeos!

Ive seen ford engines close up (ive just cleaned one for a mate in my parts washer) and they are rubbish, mass produced junk. I would say they sit on par with a M42, infact i think it would be better to turbo one of those in a E30 than a cossie lump.

Now put a turbo on a S14

I'm going to have to start making a thread with all the ignorant things you spout here or on other sites.

May run to 20 pages!

I would like to see that

HA You crack me up, you seem to say ignorant but you don't actually have anything to back it up with, except maybe a D reg dog with wannabe 16"s photoshopped (badly) and you think you know M3's? Have you had any first hand experience of working on these cars? If so why don't you provide some evidence? I don't see the point of you even posting on here if you cant bring anything interesting to the table. Now i suggest you provide some evidence and if you wont (most probably because you cant), then shut up and if you cant do that ill ban you

[Andyboy]

I went to an RSOC meeting the other night - whooshing dump valves, white dial kits and some frankly scary looking people. Chunky gold chains, baseball caps, tattoos, blingin' white trainers and sportswear. That was just the Women! Actually they were an okay bunch but although I like the 3 Door Sierra, I just don't get the whole Cossie thing.
RSOC folk are very much like the E36 crew whilst the AVO Club people (Mark 1 Mexico/Twin Cam/RS1600 etc) are a totally different breed who are more into restoring cars back to standard or with period mods. Notice how at the Ace, the E30 and E36 crew are just chalk and cheese and you'll see where I'm coming from.
E30 and Mark 1 Escort owners are very alike believe it or not.

[Speedtouch]

The E30 is the next Escort Mk1

[Rosc0PColtrane]

Brothers in rust FTW

[UweM3]

pah... light and turbo is where its at

m3 is a great balanced car which is very forgiving for sure, however in standard form in todays world it does lack pace both in a straight line and mid corner from what i have seen on track

that's the point. It's a TWENTY year old car. Next time when you are at the Ring count the numbers of E30 M3's on a weekend and compare with numbers of other "affordable" performance cars.

I do realise this and im not having a dig.

I am just of the opinion that at the current moment it does take a dedicated e30 m3'ist to chose a medium spec e30 m3 over something jap for the same price which will be literally a million times higher spec, fully rose jointed 300+bhp reliably if done correctly etc etc etc
it will however (if rwd) as with any other turbo car be less flexible and controllable mid corner and corner exit due to the inherent turbo on/off poer function- this starts to affect rear tyre temps and reduce grip further! here the e30 m3 would be king.

Im sure you've experienced many more cars on track than i have both driving and passengering, Do you not find rwd turbo cars challenging to drive truly on the limit, as for me this challenge is much of the appeal (and i seem to enjoy it when the car is trying to kill me )

I fully agree! Only a dedicated M3 nut will spend that sort of money.
I am glad I bought mine when prices have been low, I am not sure if I would spend 10k+ on a 20 year old car. But having said that, I am a 110% M3 mad

Personally I don't like having a big bhp turbo car, I am not good enough as a driver to cope with a car constantly trying to kill me. Have left that behind me when I stepped down from Superbike's. It was fun while it lasted, now I need it a bit more calm and controlled

[Andyboy]

The E30 is the next Escort Mk1

Yes it is. When M3's and 325i Sports plus the Alpina stuff is through the roof, the ordinary stuff will get dragged up by it. Except 4 doors - not another dig but I don't think they will ever be much loved in the same way a 4 door Escort isn't.

The only problem with M3's is that there were 17'000 made and a large proportion of them still exist. Because they don't rot and fall to bits like the old Ford stuff, I doubt they will ever be mega rare.

I reckon in 5 years, nice 325i Sports will be touching 10 grand and low mileage minters 15k.

[Karan]

that's the point. It's a TWENTY year old car. Next time when you are at the Ring count the numbers of E30 M3's on a weekend and compare with numbers of other "affordable" performance cars.

I do realise this and im not having a dig.

I am just of the opinion that at the current moment it does take a dedicated e30 m3'ist to chose a medium spec e30 m3 over something jap for the same price which will be literally a million times higher spec, fully rose jointed 300+bhp reliably if done correctly etc etc etc
it will however (if rwd) as with any other turbo car be less flexible and controllable mid corner and corner exit due to the inherent turbo on/off poer function- this starts to affect rear tyre temps and reduce grip further! here the e30 m3 would be king.

Im sure you've experienced many more cars on track than i have both driving and passengering, Do you not find rwd turbo cars challenging to drive truly on the limit, as for me this challenge is much of the appeal (and i seem to enjoy it when the car is trying to kill me )

I fully agree! Only a dedicated M3 nut will spend that sort of money.
I am glad I bought mine when prices have been low, I am not sure if I would spend 10k+ on a 20 year old car. But having said that, I am a 110% M3 mad

Personally I don't like having a big bhp turbo car, I am not good enough as a driver to cope with a car constantly trying to kill me. Have left that behind me when I stepped down from Superbike's. It was fun while it lasted, now I need it a bit more calm and controlled

would like to see ure car on track sometime and maybe have a pax lap? planning any track days late march early april?

[bss325i]

I reckon in 5 years, nice 325i Sports will be touching 10 grand and low mileage minters 15k.

[Karan]

I reckon in 5 years, nice 325i Sports will be touching 10 grand and low mileage minters 15k.

lol cos of inflation