m3's on a false pedastal?

[harry_p]

my lancia would kill the m3 cross country and in a straight line, theyre the same age, had similar mileages, yet the lancia was half what i paid for the m3. some people really do need to look beyond their blinkers sometimes

[fuzzy]

hmm if only it wasen't always getting "rebuilt" all the time hmm rebuilt = broken down because its a ford again

yeh im sure bmw are well pissed they did not built an unreliable pice of crap cossie engine to put in the touring

ill try to remember the issues ive had in the last 2 years that have kept me of the road.....
head helicoiling for manifold studs= cosworth
prop centre bearing=bmw
rear subframe mounts =bmw
diff mount=bmw
clutch=cosworth
fuel tank replacement=bmw
fuel pump=bmw
steering rack=bmw
suspension=bmw
front control arms=bmw
hard brake pipes=bmw
brakes=bmw
i cant think of anything else atm but cosworth issues arent as common as you think.

[agreen]

so ermm..... when is your car coming out then?

it's out you spanner it often goes out i have left it at the track prep place to have more work done ! acctually !

thanks for the concern though , also all these parts no car well how do you know they are not on the car , ill let you know when they are on shall i maybe ill even give you daily updates shall i

[maxfield]

4WD and Turbo, are big advantages towards the Jap Crap.

And they both came in a little after the E30, although the Evo might of been around at the same time.

[fuzzy]

my lancia would kill the m3 cross country and in a straight line, theyre the same age, had similar mileages, yet the lancia was half what i paid for the m3. some people really do need to look beyond their blinkers sometimes

i had forgotten about the lancia integrale
ill add that to my list of m3 killers
that is another iconic car for sure.

[1an]

so ermm..... when is your car coming out then?

it's out you spanner it often goes out i have left it at the track prep place to have more work done ! acctually !

thanks for the concern though , also all these parts no car well how do you know they are not on the car , ill let you know when they are on shall i maybe ill even give you daily updates shall i

see ya at a trackday then

[fuzzy]

4WD and Turbo, are big advantages towards the Jap Crap.

And they both came in a little after the E30, although the Evo might of been around at the same time.

both about 1992 iirc. turbos and 4wd were being used by many long before then its only bmw that didnt see the light.

[agreen]

see ya at a trackday then

ok mate for sure , hell ill even sure i will catch up with you at bedford if your going which i think you are am i right ?

i would love to have a chat then , if you dont mind

[1an]

see ya at a trackday then

ok mate for sure , hell ill even sure i will catch up with you at bedford if your going which i think you are am i right ?

i would love to have a chat then , if you dont mind

yeah im going to bedford, sure i can have a chat, i dont do 4 cyclinders though, ill be in the red 325. wearing a lairy blue,silver, white helmet

[fuzzy]

now now sir. lets not take it personally just because you bought a rubbish car

[1an]

now now sir. lets not take it personally just because you bought rubbish cars

i bought a rubbish car? sorry not my car but like said earlyer atleast your car is powerd by a proper 4 cyclinder turbo unlike these m40's, m42's and s14'2 that were in the e30,

[fuzzy]

Is you sayin' we is pretentious BMW driving c*cks?

would i say such a thing?

[agreen]

lets not take it personally just because you rubbish cars

nothing personal here cheif ! just like to put faces to names etc , i think bedford will be a good place to do this

1an i appreciate you dont do four pots thats fine , i understand , ill just have a mosey around talking to as many people as i can looking at all the cars i can

see you there mate

[fuzzy]

now now sir. lets not take it personally just because you bought rubbish cars

i bought a rubbish car? sorry not my car but like said earlyer atleast your car is powerd by a proper 4 cyclinder turbo unlike these m40's, m42's and s14'2 that were in the e30,

no mate, that was aimed at agreen

[1an]

now now sir. lets not take it personally just because you bought rubbish cars

i bought a rubbish car? sorry not my car but like said earlyer atleast your car is powerd by a proper 4 cyclinder turbo unlike these m40's, m42's and s14'2 that were in the e30,

no mate, that was aimed at agreen

Agreen, speak to ya at bedford.

[agreen]

now now sir. lets not take it personally just because you bought rubbish cars

i bought a rubbish car? sorry not my car but like said earlyer atleast your car is powerd by a proper 4 cyclinder turbo unlike these m40's, m42's and s14'2 that were in the e30,

no mate, that was aimed at agreen [/quote

now now that was not very nice was it

a rubish car hmm thats your opinion on the m42 thats fair i supose as i have my opinions on the cossie engine any way lets not dwell on it

at the end of the day , you like yours i like mine its all good !

1an see you on the 23rd dude

[maxfield]

4WD and Turbo, are big advantages towards the Jap Crap.

And they both came in a little after the E30, although the Evo might of been around at the same time.

both about 1992 iirc. turbos and 4wd were being used by many long before then its only bmw that didnt see the light.

How many 4WD BMW's do you see now days?

BMW use RWD for a reason.

Shame they use all the electronics too.

[maxfield]

now now sir. lets not take it personally just because you bought rubbish cars

i bought a rubbish car? sorry not my car but like said earlyer atleast your car is powerd by a proper 4 cyclinder turbo unlike these m40's, m42's and s14'2 that were in the e30,

The S14 is the best engine that came in the E30

And still an awesome engine today!

[HairyScreech]

I sitll want someone to show me a hot hatch that can beat a 215bhp M3 on any road.

ill have a go on a track with mine when (eventualy) its done, although its not realy "normal" in hot hatch terms, it is still wrong wheel drive and cost less than £3000.

[Francisco]

This is a so "NONSENSE" topic anyway!

The car has the title of the absolute record of most international championship AND race victories (followed by the the Escort Mk2), it's considered by reputed magazines as the best M car ever, it's on the list of the 10 best handling cars ever built and the demand (the public) has made the prices double on the last 10 years (the special versions).

Sorry, but theres no ground for discussion here...

[oakey]

This is a so "NONSENSE" topic anyway!

The car has the title of the absolute record of most international championship AND race victories (followed by the the Escort Mk2), it's considered by reputed magazines as the best M car ever, it's on the list of the 10 best handling cars ever built and the demand (the public) has made the prices double on the last 10 years (the special versions).

Sorry, but theres no ground for discussion here...

The point precisely put! Good man. As with all of these debates its all about preference.

Fuzzy- you stick to your ford powered estate

If I had to put money on it I'd bet a decent m3 would put down quicker laptimes than your car ever would.

[Card]

Sorry don't know how to quote of an older post so this is for Rich W who wanted pictures and how the weight was so low.







It weight 995kgs With no driver and no fuel.(not allowed to race at that weight)

The car has had removed and replaced with to reduce weight

Light weight front and back bumpers.
Light weight boot and bonnet.
Sunroof cut out and replace with carbon fibre.
All interia removed from car.
Side window and rear window are plastic.
Door just shell with carbon fibre covers.
Any additional trim removed.
Lightweith 5.5 inch lightweigth alamuim clutch.
CF airbox.
Smaller battery.
Etc.

Then it is running a new AST 3 way varible suspension (was on KW)
AP racing 500+ floating front brakes with Padgid yello pads
Standard brakes on the back just a better disk and padgid blue pads.
CC Cage.
Racing fuels System.
Adjustable Anti Roll front and back.
Lowerted and fitted with Evo Sport front wing to stop it catch on the wings.


Thats all i can think of off the top of my head.

Hope that answers the question



[/list][/quote]

[Rosc0PColtrane]

now now sir. lets not take it personally just because you bought rubbish cars

i bought a rubbish car? sorry not my car but like said earlyer atleast your car is powerd by a proper 4 cyclinder turbo unlike these m40's, m42's and s14'2 that were in the e30,

The S14 is the best engine that came in the E30

And still an awesome engine today!

I'd say the m10 was the best engine. The lump used in f1, turbo charged to buggery and awesome.

[fuzzy]

Fuzzy- you stick to your ford powered estate

If I had to put money on it I'd bet a decent m3 would put down quicker laptimes than your car ever would.

i would put money on that
obviously mine doesnt have standard suspension or brakes and i do have the added bonus of 282bhp and 289lbft of torque in a car gear up and boosted up with acceleration in mind not top end so tracks would be ideal for my touring.i notice m3's have pretty poor torque figures even well tuned examples like max's dads only has under 200lbft .thats a big difference even though mine is only mildly tuned.
whether it ever happens or not though is a different matter.

[suchy]

Wow I stop watching this topic for a day and it's like handbags at 10 paces!!!

[fuzzy]

Wow I stop watching this topic for a day and it's like handbags at 10 paces!!!

na mate, its what they call 'banter'

[agreen]

na mate, its what they call 'banter'

it's all harmless fun

[Rich_W]

Card

Cheers for that. Good luck for the coming season

[Fushion_Julz]

4WD and Turbo, are big advantages towards the Jap Crap.

And they both came in a little after the E30, although the Evo might of been around at the same time.

both about 1992 iirc. turbos and 4wd were being used by many long before then its only bmw that didnt see the light.

In regard to the turbo aspect you are wrong....

BMW produced the first production car with a turbo (the 2002 Turbo) and it was a success...killed off by the 1972 fuel crisis.

They also made a (Euro) 745i (E23) that had a turbo'd M30.

They also used a turbo to some success in Group 5 racing in the late 70s with the E21 320 Turbo...actually running a 1.4 version of the M10 with a high-pressure turbo install.

The S14 was specifically designed to take into account the Group A regulations in the early 80s and the expertise gained from the M1 and earlier E28 M5 and E25 M635 M88 motors.
In Group A racing the RS Cosworth raced in a different class, due the turbo equivalancy factor, yet the M3 (and the Merc 190) could both keep up with AND beat the RS cossies despite that.

BMW never really got into the rally scene, though. There was a semi-works (Bastos) Belgian outfit, but BMW concentrated on circuit racing.
In the early 80s rallying was based around Group B regs, for which the Audi Quattro was the benchmark. The Subaru Legacy and the Mitsubishi Lancer Turbo (and VR4) were developed for the group B era as were the Renault Maxi turbo, Lancia Integrale, Metro 6R4, etc.
Bmw opted out, deliberately, of developing a group B car, preferring to stay with group A which was much closer to showroom spec. (group N was the showroom spec class)...Of course some manufacturers extended the 4wd technology down to their road vehicles: Audi and Subaru are the notable ones...
However, most manufacturers offered only token 4wd models (BMW included) targeted at specific markets.

[pacerpete]

Buick and oldsmobile were turbocharging their alloy V8 ( later sold to rover) in the early 60s and chevrolet offered a turboed flat 6 in their corvair from the same era, all long before the 2002 and in much greater quantities

[Morat]

Pete, that engine needs at least a turbo to wake it up!
(valid point though)

[Andyboy]

BMW produced the first production car with a turbo (the 2002 Turbo) and it was a success...killed off by the 1972 fuel crisis.

Nope, the 1962 Oldsmobile Cutlass Jetfire was the first production turbo car, followed months later by the turbocharged flat six aircooled Corvair.

Also, the Sierra Cosworth race cars marched away from the M3's - as well they might with an extra 200 bhp or so.

[Fushion_Julz]

BMW produced the first production car with a turbo (the 2002 Turbo) and it was a success...killed off by the 1972 fuel crisis.

Nope, the 1962 Oldsmobile Cutlass Jetfire was the first production turbo car, followed months later by the turbocharged flat six aircooled Corvair.

Also, the Sierra Cosworth race cars marched away from the M3's - as well they might with an extra 200 bhp or so.

I stand corrected on the turbo bit....

However, I have videos (as well as memories) of DTM races @ 'Ring in 89-92 which shows the M3s and 190Evos mixing it (and beating) the Sierras and Mustangs as well as the Opel GSis...all of which, on paper, were more powerful than the BMWs and Mercs.

DTM series results:
1986: 1st Rover Vitesse, 2nd Merc 190, 3rd BMW M3
1987: 1st BMW M3, 2nd Sierra RS500, 3ed BMW M3
1988: 1st Sierra RS500, 2nd Merc 190, 3rd Sierra RS500
1989:1st BMW M3, 2nd Sierra RS500, 3rd BMW M3
1990:1st Audi V8, 2nd BMW M3, 3rd Merc 190
etc

Taking 1989 for an example....Out of 11 rounds, only in 2 (Norisring and Hockenheim) did the Sierras beat the M3s (some of the rounds were won by a Merc 190, though)...

[maxfield]

i bought a rubbish car? sorry not my car but like said earlyer atleast your car is powerd by a proper 4 cyclinder turbo unlike these m40's, m42's and s14'2 that were in the e30,

The S14 is the best engine that came in the E30

And still an awesome engine today!

I'd say the m10 was the best engine. The lump used in f1, turbo charged to buggery and awesome.

S14 used the M10 block

I'm pretty sure the S14 wasn't out before the F1 Turbo jobbies...

[maxfield]

obviously mine doesnt have standard suspension or brakes and i do have the added bonus of 282bhp and 289lbft of torque in a car gear up and boosted up with acceleration in mind not top end so tracks would be ideal for my touring.i notice m3's have pretty poor torque figures even well tuned examples like max's dads only has under 200lbft .thats a big difference even though mine is only mildly tuned.
whether it ever happens or not though is a different matter.

It might not have massive amounts of torque. But it is a good amount for the engine size and only being 4 cylinders.

On track it doesn't really matter