5 LUG conversion.

[_Dan_]

Hi guys ,

doing a 5 stud conversion on my 325,

I've done the rears with the E36 compact arms.

with the fronts i was thinking of using a normal E36 hub, and modifying an arm to move the wheel forward in the arch,

I've Bought my self a cheap welder from eBay, and some of those small white gas bottles, so i'm just going to cut the lower arm and re-weld it

anyone made there own arms before ?

[jmc330i]

I've Bought my self a cheap welder from eBay, and some of those small white gas bottles, so i'm just going to cut the lower arm and re-weld it

[Orangecab]

For a minute there I thought you said you were going to cut and weld a lower arm!!

[_Dan_]

What would be the problem with that ?

[Orangecab]

It's just not normal practice to do such a thing! Go into a corner hard and it'll most likely snap on the weld!

[ross_jsy]

Got to be a troll, no one is this stupid.

Or are you a drifter by any chance?

[Motorhole]

On top of the all round bad ideaness of welding a high shear load item - how you going going to make sure the geometry of each side is bang on? Would need a jig to get it right.

[Sanchez]

There a Facebook thread about 5 lugs and welding e46 lower arms.

[sanitroc1]

In the dark old days we would cut and lengthen mini bottom arms to give negative camber to reduce under steer . These were used on the road , rallies , auto test and grass track and never had a single issue .

[jmc330i]

I bet you didn't use a cheap eBay welder though Steve

[Taz]

are some of u guys gonna actually debate this???????

read what the numpty said??

he bought himself a cheap shitty welder from ebay with a small gas bottle thingy!

and he thinks he can start welding now! WTF!!!

welding is a skill u either born with it or not

I would like to slap him some sense into him

[sanitroc1]

I bet you didn't use a cheap eBay welder though Steve

It was a 100a stick welder that I bought from one of those catalogue things that most mums used to have .
It was a baptism of fire trying to weld bodywork with that as I had never welded before but I got there in the end .

I have got to agree with Taz that it isn't the best thing to learn on .
Curiosity got the better of me so I just looked at a lower arm and I don't think it is a problem ( as long as it is re enforced ) to move the outer ball joint easily 40mm in any direction . But as I have no interest in a 5 stud setup that's as far as I am going with it .

[_Dan_]

Glad to see some positive attitude towards this idea Steve.

Will get some pics up of progress soon

[dave525]

Most likely mot fail too

[Brianmoooore]

Most likely mot fail too

"An inappropriate repair or modification includes welded repairs or the use of excessive heat to highly stressed components (see Appendix C) and modifications which are likely to affect the roadworthiness of the vehicle."

[HairyScreech]

Lower arms are 4140 Cr-Mo I believe so localised hardening is a big issue, I suspect they are heat treated as well.
Filler material needs careful consideration as does pre-heat/cooling rate and post heat treat.

MOT wise any welding to steering gear/associated is a fail.

Further offsetting the inner joint is by far the simplest.


However I am calling trolling.

[DanThe]

Cant you just cable tie it into the correct position?

[ross_jsy]

Couple of G clamps either side of some flat bar is clearly a more sensible option Dan, adjustable geometry too!

[DanThe]

Will the finished conversion look something like this?

[sanitroc1]

Most likely mot fail too

"An inappropriate repair or modification includes welded repairs or the use of excessive heat to highly stressed components (see Appendix C) and modifications which are likely to affect the roadworthiness of the vehicle."

So would this include front coil over conversions and rear camber adjustment kits ? .

I am just curious what people think .
I have to say I like the idea of moving the inner ball joint mounting , very good idea that .

[DanThe]

The strut and trailing arm mounts are nowhere near as stressed as the track control arm, so no id say it does not include those, unless your weld looks like rusty bird shite of course

[maxfield]

[quote="HairyScreech]
MOT wise any welding to steering gear/associated is a fail[/quote]

Read Brian's comment.

It is a very grey area when it comes to welding on a car, I've failed various cars on dodgy repairs. (Some very worrying things out there)

But for instance a mate of mine has a MK2 escort, with lots of suspension modifications, he's done a lot of the welding himself, and there's no reason for me to fail it.

[Demlotcrew]

If you pressed the balljoint out, made a jig, preheated the arm and made several passes with the welder I don't see any issues with that.

Make sure to deep chamfer both ends where the weld will be and work your way round with multi pass.

Test, test and test, you need make sure you are getting a good penetrating weld. After you do your first arm, cut it open and check all looks good!

[Motorhole]

Or use an original control arm for the basis of a jig and make up something like this with the required geometry

[Demlotcrew]

Thats not bad at all (I bet lighter than a cast arm too)!

I would have that over an adjustable outer rod end!!!!!

[jmc330i]

Or use an original control arm for the basis of a jig and make up something like this with the required geometry

^^^^ Nice

How would something like that get on with MOT?

[Demlotcrew]

Its how many car manufacturers do it.

TVR, Lamborghini et'al

[jmc330i]

I know that, I meant as it would be a very noticeable modification from the standard bottom arm.

[Demlotcrew]

But so are engine swaps, wheels, suspension, brakes........

[Motorhole]

Well, yeah I'd have a set too! Cost of getting some made to order wouldn't be cheap though, even doing the jig/CAD work yourself.

[maxfield]

Or use an original control arm for the basis of a jig and make up something like this with the required geometry

^^^^ Nice

How would something like that get on with MOT?

I'd happily pass it.

[HairyScreech]

That should pass as it has clearly been designed that way.

The MOT rule is intended to cover things like cutting and welding cast components which would clearly be an inappropriate mod.

Those are the SLR arms right?

For what it's worth they are pretty simple to make, done a few while I was working at the vintage car place years back.
You would want to go a bit heavier on the arms for a bmw (vehicle weight) and heavier again for regular road use, these were intended for sprint style use.

(bolts are obviously only for the picture, yes rod ends in bending they are 10x over rated to cope).

[DanThe]

Or use an original control arm for the basis of a jig and make up something like this with the required geometry

^^^^ Nice

How would something like that get on with MOT?

I'd happily pass it.

Lovely bit of fab Would love to get similar made up for my own car

[jmc330i]

But so are engine swaps, wheels, suspension, brakes........

Well yes, but a tubular steel bottom arm is a little more obvious when it should be a cast item as standard.

I remember taking my S50 conversion for its first MOT and the old boy who owned the garage didn't realise it was a conversion until my mate (the tester) told him lol

[Demlotcrew]

The only issue those may fail on is inadequate wheel turning angle (low turning circle).

Arms like that have a very limited market (despite their very good fabrication), certainly those who can afford such would quickly see their drawbacks and go with other available options.

Possibly the only application would be off-road.