M3 1 OF 148 RARE

[death]

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/ ... de/1771149

this could be for a zoner

[polsta]

somehow i cant see a zoner spending 21k on a car

[jimbom30cab]

Why?

[M-Sport]

I sold this last year for £14500 sounds like its had some money thrown at it since.

[THE_GODFATHER]

I sold this last year for £14500 sounds like its had some money thrown at it since.

any more info about the car will help is it a good example

[death]

I sold this last year for £14500 sounds like its had some money thrown at it since.

Thats a big profit

[adit]

beautiful!

[Fastroad]

Was this car repaired previously??

[death]

anybody being to view this yet

[DanThe]

I sold this last year for £14500 sounds like its had some money thrown at it since.

Thats a big profit

I take it you didnt read any further than the above statement or the price its now up for..

[Rich_W]

I sold this last year for £14500 sounds like its had some money thrown at it since.

Thats a big profit

I take it you didnt read any further than the above statement or the price its now up for..

TBH I agree with "Death" After "Msport" sold it even if the guy did all those things in the advert. It's not a £7K+ increase.

And IMO can you really expect a price increase because you serviced or maintained it? I.e If the clutch cylinders and rad were changed it was for a reason. Try selling a car with a leaky rad/overheating or a ineffective clutch master that doesn't work. Cahnigng a sunroof seal (circa £100) doesn't;t make the car wonderful. Exhaust gaskets? A few quid. And the included spares are laughable. Why would you want the old battery? Why didn't he buy a gen BMW one? £90 isn't that expensive. Unless of course you are running your M3 on a shioe string in which case where else did he cut costs.... Why would you want the old sunroof and liner?

For that money you want to see evidence of proper rust removal. They rust all over the place it's not even funny. Scuttle, arches, bottom of doors, floorpan, bulkhead, rear number plate light area etc etc Given there's no menton of any of these, I fear it's a quick rub down and a tin of stoneguard. Claims of "no nasty rust" are at best deluded, worse outright lying.

At the end of the day it's a 14 year old 154 THOUSAND mile car. Just another chancer who thinks people will fall over themselves because it's an E30M3. (EuroMs aren't especially desirable in the M£ hierarchy.) To be fair he won't be the last. (See the car at a car sales place in Herefordshire) But like that one they'll will be holding onto the car for a while until he gets sick of it and sells it for around £16K

[Fastroad]

Thats a big profit

I take it you didnt read any further than the above statement or the price its now up for..

TBH I agree with "Death" After "Msport" sold it even if the guy did all those things in the advert. It's not a £7K+ increase.

And IMO can you really expect a price increase because you serviced or maintained it? I.e If the clutch cylinders and rad were changed it was for a reason. Try selling a car with a leaky rad/overheating or a ineffective clutch master that doesn't work. Cahnigng a sunroof seal (circa £100) doesn't;t make the car wonderful. Exhaust gaskets? A few quid. And the included spares are laughable. Why would you want the old battery? Why didn't he buy a gen BMW one? £90 isn't that expensive. Unless of course you are running your M3 on a shioe string in which case where else did he cut costs.... Why would you want the old sunroof and liner?

For that money you want to see evidence of proper rust removal. They rust all over the place it's not even funny. Scuttle, arches, bottom of doors, floorpan, bulkhead, rear number plate light area etc etc Given there's no menton of any of these, I fear it's a quick rub down and a tin of stoneguard. Claims of "no nasty rust" are at best deluded, worse outright lying.

At the end of the day it's a 14 year old 154 THOUSAND mile car. Just another chancer who thinks people will fall over themselves because it's an E30M3. (EuroMs aren't especially desirable in the M£ hierarchy.) To be fair he won't be the last. (See the car at a car sales place in Herefordshire) But like that one they'll will be holding onto the car for a while until he gets sick of it and sells it for around £16K

Man this was my exact thought. People saying that they have done the work does not mean its done properly. I have been to see so many and the work is never done to a good standard but more a cover up standard.

[death]

? is what should one pay for this M3

[Fastroad]

? is what should one pay for this M3

With the magic 155 probably needs a chain doing, amongst many other things. Personal opinion £9k to £11k depending on what other defects you find as I am sure it will have hidden extras.

Good luck

[death]

need to ring munich legends for a quote on the chain thats a big job

[Blitz]

Why would it need a timing chain doing?

[Simon13]

Is this a p!ss take Death and fastroad?!

[sunnyr83]

Bash a car online - go in for the kill.

[Fastroad]

Is this a p!ss take Death and fastroad?!

Not a piss take, these cars are not cheap to make perfect and I have spent piss loads correcting them to the state of new. An e30 M3 in perfect state is worth £20k that means not needing a penny spent on it, not £20k then needing £10k spent on it.

Most have the hidden rust issues and any serious owner would buy and strip down to see if they got a minter or a real 5hitter.

One previous M3 i had 9yrs ago gave me a surprise and only till the carpet came out did the rust issues become noticeable and had to have the whole floor redone (fix the not so perfect job) not a cheap job if its done properly with no short cuts.

[Fastroad]

Bash a car online - go in for the kill.

I am not in the market for one, got too many on my plate at the moment. I noticed the sport prices are rising fast so in the market for a low mileage one a˜Š

No more high mileage rusty turds a˜±

[DanThe]

A 100k chain on an M3 is an engine rebuild hanging in the midst, didnt you know Simon?

Very very expensive to have it changed also, doesnt everyone know this? Its been in all the magazines and the countries leading M3 specialists also swear by it

[Simon13]

I'm well aware of issues on e30s and M3s thanks, its the timing chain sh!te that pricked my ears up

[bss325i]

You have Tony and Barney Halse to thank for that.

[DanThe]

Time to raise the flag on the timing chain scare stories!

[e30topless]

Not a pee pee take, these cars are not cheap to make perfect and I have spent pee pee loads correcting them to the state of new. An e30 M3 in perfect state is worth £20k that means not needing a penny spent on it, not £20k then needing £10k spent on it.

what do you base your valuation on ?

and how did you get a 10k resto figure on this 20k turd ? have you seen it ?

[toddy]

You have Tony and Barney Halse to thank for that.

Don't forget Nigel Moseley, not only has he been claiming since the mid 90's that E30 M3's need the timing chain replaced at a 100k but also that E36 M3's do as well.

[Fastroad]

Not a pee pee take, these cars are not cheap to make perfect and I have spent pee pee loads correcting them to the state of new. An e30 M3 in perfect state is worth £20k that means not needing a penny spent on it, not £20k then needing £10k spent on it.

what do you base your valuation on ?

and how did you get a 10k resto figure on this 20k turd ? have you seen it ?

My comment was in a general manor and not relating to the car in question.

[Rich_W]

You have Tony and Barney Halse to thank for that.

Indeed. Old single row chains (think E12 5 series) did have a recommendation for 100K AFAIK BMW themselves don't even have a recommended change date for the Duplex type.

IIRC It's either the same part number or same design as the chain used on all the 6 pot M3's as well. And you don't hear people wanting it done on E46's too often.


If you did need it changed for a genuine reason. ML used to charge circa 2K for the job. Parts are IIRC around the £500 or so. Parts at C3 But they always "claimed" they removed the engine. Which seems overkill. Bonnet off and there's loads of room infront of the engine to be able to do the chain with the engine in situ. You probably don't have to remove the bonnet even, but it would make it much easier IMO

[pacerpete]

A timing chain job done PROPERLY dr on the average M3 shed EASILY runs £1500+ in parts and then lots of labour. There is no set interval and I have seen 200000 mile untouched engines that run fine BUT when you strip them down, everything is worn out and foooked

[harry_p]

Yes the e30 and e36 m3 chains are the same.

My e36 has done 220,000 miles, and when I had the cam cover off a few months ago the chain and sprockets looked in fantastic condition, and the e36 chain carries more load and has to withstand higher revs.

Wasn't it actually the tensioner which was a bit crap? particularly on infrequently used cars, but a change to the e36 tensioner solves the issues and is the only tensioner bmw will now sell you for an e30 m3.

[Fastroad]

A timing chain job done PROPERLY dr on the average M3 shed EASILY runs £1500+ in parts and then lots of labour. There is no set interval and I have seen 200000 mile untouched engines that run fine BUT when you strip them down, everything is worn out and foooked

Now after having owned many M3's over the years, I just got another one with 90k on the clock, everything seemed fine till yesterday when I heard some kind of funny rattling sound. So I decided to investigate and found all the chain guides and rails are fo0ked (will post pics soon), super pi5sed.

[pacerpete]

A timing chain job done PROPERLY dr on the average M3 shed EASILY runs £1500+ in parts and then lots of labour. There is no set interval and I have seen 200000 mile untouched engines that run fine BUT when you strip them down, everything is worn out and foooked

Now after having owned many M3's over the years, I just got another one with 90k on the clock, everything seemed fine till yesterday when I heard some kind of funny rattling sound. So I decided to investigate and found all the chain guides and rails are fo0ked (will post pics soon), super pi5sed.

What is on the 'clock' and what it has done are often quite different !

[Andyboy]

You have Tony and Barney Halse to thank for that.

Indeed. Old single row chains (think E12 5 series) did have a recommendation for 100K AFAIK BMW themselves don't even have a recommended change date for the Duplex type.

IIRC It's either the same part number or same design as the chain used on all the 6 pot M3's as well. And you don't hear people wanting it done on E46's too often.


I

E12's virtually all had duplex chains. They only went to simplex at the end of 1980 and my mid 1981 they were gone. It's the E28 M5 and non catalyst M635CSi that have the simplex chain.

Nigel Moseley told me the exact opposite, and considered ML to be a pack of jokers. Well, the pre Dan Norris set up - I have no idea what they are like these days!

The E36 M3 has the very same chain as the E30, but straight sixes are smoother running and place less stress on the chain. That's why the N57 doesn't suffer anything like the timing chain problems on the N47 (same chain and parts) and the M30 never suffered the same cam sprocket wear as the M10 - again, the same parts used.

The M3 chain myth was all of ML's doing. They got cosy with the gullible motoring press and the myth became reality.
These days, the majority of E30 M3's are tired old crap, the and perhaps 10% are excellent examples. These top condition cars will not be found for 20 grand! Generally speaking, 10 grand cars are scrap/resto projects, rusty patched up hounds that have seen track action, mileage 'correction' and so on. 20 grand cars are the normally 10 grand cars with a good spruce up and some nice photos. Some of the rubbish I've seen is just hair raising - I'm glad I had one years ago when they were still relatively unscathed.

[toddy]

You have Tony and Barney Halse to thank for that.

Indeed. Old single row chains (think E12 5 series) did have a recommendation for 100K AFAIK BMW themselves don't even have a recommended change date for the Duplex type.

IIRC It's either the same part number or same design as the chain used on all the 6 pot M3's as well. And you don't hear people wanting it done on E46's too often.


I

E12's virtually all had duplex chains. They only went to simplex at the end of 1980 and my mid 1981 they were gone. It's the E28 M5 and non catalyst M635CSi that have the simplex chain.

Nigel Moseley told me the exact opposite, and considered ML to be a pack of jokers. Well, the pre Dan Norris set up - I have no idea what they are like these days!

The E36 M3 has the very same chain as the E30, but straight sixes are smoother running and place less stress on the chain. That's why the N57 doesn't suffer anything like the timing chain problems on the N47 (same chain and parts) and the M30 never suffered the same cam sprocket wear as the M10 - again, the same parts used.

The M3 chain myth was all of ML's doing. They got cosy with the gullible motoring press and the myth became reality.
These days, the majority of E30 M3's are tired old crap, the and perhaps 10% are excellent examples. These top condition cars will not be found for 20 grand! Generally speaking, 10 grand cars are scrap/resto projects, rusty patched up hounds that have seen track action, mileage 'correction' and so on. 20 grand cars are the normally 10 grand cars with a good spruce up and some nice photos. Some of the rubbish I've seen is just hair raising - I'm glad I had one years ago when they were still relatively unscathed.

When I started looking at e30 m3's in 1996/1997 I'd heard about the timing chain and contacted moseley motorsport and they claimed the same as munich legends, their web site currently says

'Our extensive knowledge of the E30 M3 from 24 years of experience is undisputed, the engine rebuilds and timing chain replacements are our usual domain but we are aware that E36 3.0 & 3.2 models are now requiring similar extensive overhauls.'

It did say it needed doing at 100k in the past, so Nigel told you it doesn't need replacing and yet they say they replace a lot of them.

I was having a look around ml once a few years back and a guy came in with an m3 and asked them about engine noise and if it was the timing chain, Barney had a listen and told him to replace the tensioner first as that is all they usually need, he even told him he could do it himself as it was easy, he could easily have got him to book his car if for a full chain replacement but didn't. That's very different to what they always say in the magazines and what you always hear about ml.

Maybe it depends on how busy they are, if they need the work it needs doing if they're busy it doesn't.

A mate of mine took his e30 m3 to moseley's as it had a gearbox noise and Nigel told him it needed a gearbox rebuild when it fact it was just the clutch release bearing that was bad.

Seriously would you expect Nigel to say ml are great don't bring your car to me take it to them, ml would probably say the same about Moseley's.

Personally I wouldn't trust either of them.

[pony]

A timing chain job done PROPERLY dr on the average M3 shed EASILY runs £1500+ in parts and then lots of labour. There is no set interval and I have seen 200000 mile untouched engines that run fine BUT when you strip them down, everything is worn out and foooked

But if they run fine is there any point in replacing any components ?
And what is work out and fooked ? Do they need rebuilding ?