E30 v E36 quality; which was better?

[BEERBOY123]

Seems to me that most of the E36s I see have faired little better than contemorary Fords etc.

Whereas E30s, on the whole, seem to last better, even though they are older.

Was there some kind of Mercedes style 'quantity over quality', regime after the E30, cheap steel and so on?

Just interested if anyone knows from the inside. Were they built on the same production lines?

[sailorjerry]

no they was not built on the same processes they were built for an age to coinside the quality of the amazing E30 but after a few years the numbers rocketed and manufacture was split between many different places and in turn means that the quality may have dropped but all bemmers no matter the series is built to last and final production always finished in bavaria, or that is what my knoledge and documentary watching has spilled into my head

[ross_jsy]

The early e36's were all awful. Finding an early one that doesn't have a loose door card is like finding the holy grail.

I believe BMW realised there were quality issues and they improved, but I don't think they ever were the quality product an e30 is.

[capnmchl]

I expect 10 years ago the same was said about E30's. It's all about ownership.

The first E36's were made 20 years ago. After a few years, their original owners, who looked after them and followed the service lights and schedule sold them on. The next lot of owners probably took good care of them but let a few things slide. These owners then sell them on, and the next owners take a bit less care of the car. At this point, the car is about 10 years old and has done anything from 50 to 150k.

Although the 90's saw a large amount of action against rust, bodywork defects and lack of maintenence and cleaning can still lead to corrosion. Those who cleaned their cars regularly, getting into the wheel arches etc managed to get rid of the moisture and road salt stuck in dirt and mud whereas the less sympathetic owners lef their cars to rot.

The car gets onto it's 5th owner or so. At this point, its bottom of the market. A cheap premium saloon. The suspension all needs replacing, the engine and transmission has a few oil leaks and the car has mismatched tyres all around. It doesn't drive anything like it did when it came out of the factory.

Then the scrappage scheme comes along. A blessing and a holocaust all in one, it sees both cars that shouldn't be on the road anymore being crushed, but also see's people getting rid of perfectly good cars that aren't worth as much as the scrappage scheme offers.

So we move to now. The ones that were well looked after and maybe only had a couple of owners from new are still around, but rare, just like E30's. The rest are owned by council types and have worn out suspension and engines along with tatty and rusty bodywork.

I'll agree that the E36 isn't as well built as the E30, especially the interior. Along with the Nikasil issues and headgasket problems (mostly down to lack of maintenence mind) it didn't give them a great name. I don't think it's purely BMW's fault though, it's just the route cars take once they get past their original owners. Some will look after them, others will abuse them. I expect E30's went through exactly the same progression, with the majority of the good ones going to deserving people and the shit going to the council types and eventually ending up in the crusher.

E36's are still lovely cars to drive and quite good looking when in good condition.

[Simon13]

i beg to differ the e36 was built to do mega miles like the old stuff. Mechanically they are way way better. You won't find a 200,000 e36 20 oil leaks like an e30 would. They don't rust rot out like an e30 can. In general the bodywork ends up scabby not big strutural holes in rear wheel arches.

The interior trim isn't as good and its awkard to remove some of it compared. But and this is a big one, a nice e36 drives aswell as the new stuff.

The only thing the e30 wins on is the heater. I think the e36 one is crap compared esp if you have the later digi climate a/c

[capnmchl]

i beg to differ the e36 was built to do mega miles like the old stuff. Mechanically they are way way better. You won't find a 200,000 e36 20 oil leaks like an e30 would. They don't rust rot out like an e30 can. In general the bodywork ends up scabby not big strutural holes in rear wheel arches.

The interior trim isn't as good and its awkard to remove some of it compared. But and this is a big one, a nice e36 drives aswell as the new stuff.

The only thing the e30 wins on is the heater. I think the e36 one is crap compared esp if you have the later digi climate a/c

I picked up a 200k 1993 E36 for £200 a couple of years ago. It was an automatic M40. It was a great car for the money. The diff had a horrendous oil leak, but the rest of the car was fine, expect for a tatty interior. All it cost me for 20k of motoring was a thermostat and an oil and filter change.

[harry_p]

Well, you're always going to get a bit of a biased view on here, but honestly, I don't think there's that much between them.

yes, early e36s were supposedly pretty poor, but bmw rectified issues pretty quickly.

I find my e36 just as easy to work on as my e30, with a similar 'germanic' quality to the fixings and fasteners. Mine has done well over 200,000 miles, starts on the button, feels tight and everything inside works as it should. The leather seats show few signs of ageing than most e30 leathers did at a similar age.

e36s are just about at the end of that awkward stage where theyre just cheap old cars to abuse and scrap at the end of it, the exact same thing e30s went through 5 or 6 years ago, so there are currently a lot of dogs on their last legs, but their time will come soon and the quality of cars left improves as theyre the ones still owned by people who care a bit more about them, which makes it hard to directly compare the quality of cars when theyre made at completely different times.

The e36 has a noticably more rigid shell, tighter panel gaps, better aerodynamics resulting in a quieter and more efficient vehicle.

'Quality' is a wide subject, and peoples opinions of what quality is will vary.

The main problem with the e36 in my eyes is that they tried to become too modern too quickly, and being the first BMW entirely designed on CAD they got a little bit carried away in some areas. I still think the dash is a horrible looking thing, and has some really cheap looking plastic parts, but they all fit together and work well and seem pretty resilliant. The simplified and almost more classic looking e46 dash is much nicer.

on the other hand, e36 moulded door cards with integral arm rest, real leather trim panel and door handles which are well placed are much better than the flat board and imitation leather vinyl of the e30s.

I still have and e30, and an e36 and i like them both for what they are and don't bother wasting time trying to directly compare the two.

[harry_p]

In general the bodywork ends up scabby not big strutural holes in rear wheel arches.

I would agree with that, e36s get scabby arches, boots and sometimes sills, just like pretty much all olders cars car, but you don't hear of them rotting out floors, inner wings or bulkheads.

I think my e36 heater is fine. Admittedly, not quite in the burn your face of league of the e30s, but better than a lot of cars.

[Simon13]

your like me harry with a good e36 with 200k on it. Like trigs broom! My touring is the best e36 out of the 3 i've had. Theres a slight oil leak on the PAS but thats all. Theres nothing out there i can replace it with, that has the sheer all round ability my one has for the money i paid/ it owes me.

Its no e30 and will never look as pimp as my 2dr though

[pnd]

both better than the e46.

[Morat]

Made in West Germany ftw

[penton08]

My e36 touring is 200k+ and still on its original nikasil donk no oil leaks, no issues at all. At 18 years old it has got very little rust and its as dry as a bone inside. Apart from general service stuff its had a few bushes here and there and it drives perfectly. The diff is still silent too.

My e30 has done 100k. It is a 90' turd and it was as rotten as a pear, the m20 was leaking oil from just about everywhere and it drove like a dog with milk float spec diff!!

[csl]

I have e30 and e36.They both seem like quality products imho.The only thing that seems of lesser quality in my e36,compared with e30, is the carpet! I use e36 daily and its bloody good.A year of use and its cost me £26 up and above the usual service items.This was to repair the climate control unit. Still have not tired of its appeal.Same with the e30.

[capri_rob]

I've had 2 E36's - both low miles low owner cars that were about 10 Years old when I had them - both excellent quality IMO - never let me down and drove like new.

Much as I love the E30 they dont have the solid thump when you shut the door that later BMW's do.

[Simon13]

/\ you need to shut the door on an e34/32. Bmw's door clunk at its highest door clunking

[gman1]

I have a 1999 e36 318i touring with 150k on the clock...im its third owner and everything works as it should although the climate /windscreen demist isnt very good!!!!,its my day to day driver and will keep on using it until it starts costing me money....
Where as my 318is baur e30 is only used on dry days and only has 39k on the clock....im its secknd owner and cant fault it in any way everythjng works as it should.....alghough the rear screen de mist sounds like a boody hairdryer!!!lol
to sum up BOTH are well made german cars

[Ajsingh]

I have a 98' 328i with 116k on it, bought it in Nov 12 and have done 4,500miles in it and its not missed a beat, all iv done is put front pads in. The car cost me £500 and its a minter! No rust, no marks or scratches. Just a smal car park dink in the passenger Door.
My e30 2.7 daily was great! Great fun, well built and fast! And it attracted alot of attention. The e36 which is my daily now doesn't and i really miss it because the e36 is a newer shape and just fits in where as the e30 didnt as it was an 80s classic!
I miss the attention. Build wise the e30 wins as its easy to work on! But fails on body work

E36 wins on everyday/long distance driver but IMO fails to stand out as the e30 did...

Although, contradicting myself, i really miss driving an E30 everyday, i cant wait for mr sunshine to come out so i can tax my sport

[Ajsingh]

[quote="Simon13"]/\ you need to shut the door on an e34/32. Bmw's door clunk at its highest door clunking[/quote

A proper "kajuunck"!

[bss325i]

The E36 (which a lot of people say are poor quality) shares a lot of its technology with the E34 (which a lot of people say is the best BMW for build quality!)

Things like the electrical system, many of the fittings, the M5x engines and transmission, even aspects of the shell design are similar.

BMW's design and technology is always first seen in the seven series then filters down to the lower models.

For example, the E32 came out in in '86 then the E34 in '88 which then filtered down to the E36 in 91.

Fast forward to the next generation and it was the E38 in '94 then the E39 in '96 and then the E46 in '98.

[Morat]

But, correct me if I'm wrong, the E30 was the exception to this rule because it marked the debut of a nose design that spread throughout the range?

[mabz]

heres all of the e36's i have had i think they are great motors,all of these are low owner/mileage ones and they were all spot on especially both the m3 cabs,i still would prefer a e30 but finding a goodun is pretty much non existent. cars

[bss325i]

But, correct me if I'm wrong, the E30 was the exception to this rule because it marked the debut of a nose design that spread throughout the range?

The E30 came from the E28 which came from the E23 in terms of design and technology, not styling.

[oomz1975]

A Properly maintained e36 is as good as any modern BMW, lucky enough to own one that has been cherished from day one.
Whenever I get in to drive, it feels like a new car.

But you can still feel the quality when taking the e30 apart & putting it back together. Old school, but solid.

[Ajsingh]

^^ agree ^^

[TommyM]

[ross_jsy]

I don't think you understand the point of a forum do you