LPG Conversions

[harvey_inc]

HI All
New to the site so sorry if ive posted in the wrong area.

Im looking at fitting an lpg conversion to my recently bought E30.
Its my every day car and Im lucky to get 3oomiles on a tank....considering i do 15o a week its not good on the bank balance.

If any one has had it done to there cars or can recomend someone in the leicester coventry area it would be much appreciated

[Brianmoooore]

Several on here have E30s/BMWs running on LPG (I have five). The red touring in my sig. has covered well over 100,000 miles in my hands running on gas, until its life was cruelly terminated by a flying Porker, but its LPG system lives on in a cab.
A second generation LPG system can be fitted to an E30 for around £300 with some careful buying of second hand and new parts, and is a reasonably simple DIY job, that can be divided into several stages, non of which take the car off of the road for more than a few hours.

[harvey_inc]

Hi Brian
Was actually looking at getting a firm to fit one for me as i seem to struggle to actually finish projects.

This is the company I am considering, but will go there first to see there work...I dont want to hand my car over to some corner shop monkeys

www.golpg.co.uk

[Quaser]

sorry for the thread hijack - but what sort of system is recommended for the m20 engine (making a 2.7 hybrid) and could you advise of links for parts that would be needed for a diy installation please?

[Kedge]

sorry for the thread hijack - but what sort of system is recommended for the m20 engine (making a 2.7 hybrid) and could you advise of links for parts that would be needed for a diy installation please?

This would be very helpful actually. I see no end of threads where the only response seems to be along the lines of;

LPG system can be fitted to an E30 for around £300 with some careful buying of second hand and new parts, and is a reasonably simple DIY job.

Doesn't really help anyone!

If we could get some proper details of how to fit a system and what is needed I could add it to the Wiki

[DanThe]

Until someone does an install with pics and a guide that gets posted up I dont think you will be able to, you can buy new front end kits for under £300 now so I wouldnt bother with second hand stuff unless its only a few years old. Finding second hand tanks is more difficult though, new ones are expensive.

[Quaser]

can you fit sequential system to e30's?

[Morat]

Yes, although it isn't strictly necessary.

[Kedge]

Until someone does an install with pics and a guide that gets posted up I dont think you will be able to

I think some good pics of a current install with details on what the part is and what it does would be good enough.

[BenHar]

sorry for the thread hijack - but what sort of system is recommended for the m20 engine (making a 2.7 hybrid) and could you advise of links for parts that would be needed for a diy installation please?

This would be very helpful actually. I see no end of threads where the only response seems to be along the lines of;

LPG system can be fitted to an E30 for around £300 with some careful buying of second hand and new parts, and is a reasonably simple DIY job.

Doesn't really help anyone!

If we could get some proper details of how to fit a system and what is needed I could add it to the Wiki

I would really like this too. It seems to be a one of those things that people like to keep as a dark art so that they can charge through the nose for it.

Ben

[Brianmoooore]

It seems to be a one of those things that people like to keep as a dark art so that they can charge through the nose for it.

Ben

You've hit the nail on the head here! That's exactly what the LPGA have tried to do over the years, coupled with trying to get legal backup for their golden goose by feeding scare stories to the media and insurance companies.
If you look at the link in diable's post above, I've given a run through of what's involved in fitting a type of system that's perfectly acceptable for any E30 engine. It really is that simple.
This type of system isn't really suitable for more modern engines though, from the M50 onwards, since they have plastic inlet manifolds which are likely to be destroyed by a backfire through the inlet system. These engines require a system which uses individual vapour injectors, feeding propane into the engine near the inlet valves, the same as the petrol injectors inject petrol.
These systems will work marginally better on an E30 engine, but it's debatable whether the extra cost and complexity is worth it.
I'm afraid I'm gong to disagree with DanThe on this one. I've never had any problem finding suitable second hand tanks (630mm diameter to fit in an E30 wheel well), and I'd be wary of the quality and reliability of £300 new front end kits.

[BenHar]

It seems to be a one of those things that people like to keep as a dark art so that they can charge through the nose for it.

Ben

You've hit the nail on the head here! That's exactly what the LPGA have tried to do over the years, coupled with trying to get legal backup for their golden goose by feeding scare stories to the media and insurance companies.
If you look at the link in diable's post above, I've given a run through of what's involved in fitting a type of system that's perfectly acceptable for any E30 engine.

It's still not clear enough for me, dumb as it may seem.

Do you need a lambda sensor?

Thanks
Ben

[Brianmoooore]

If you want electronic control over the gas mixture strength you need a lambda sensor, but it's possible to construct a basic system which is set up by adjusting two interactive screws, like an old fixed jet carburettor.
I've driven cars for short distances which have been fuelled entirely by a piece of orange rubber gas hose with one end connected to a propane or butane cylinder and the other end pushed into the air intake. I also often use the technique for starting up small engines, like lawn mowers, strimmers, chain saws, etc., that haven't been used for many months.

[daimlerman]

Just what is a 'front end kit',please?

[Brianmoooore]

The bits that go under the bonnet. Everything except the tank and filler.

[DanThe]

Ive just invested in one of Polands finest stag kits at nearly 50% cheaper than what the same kit would cost over here. Will report back with my findings

[Gavla]

So if I wanted to convert to LPG what parts would I need and where would I look. Can someone do an "E30 LPG Conversion for dummmies"...

[Morat]

In all honesty you are better off asking lpg questions on this forum.
http://www.lpgforum.co.uk/

E30 specific stuff of course is best on here

[freeflow]

Hi guys, i can help here,i have been converting cars for over 15 years so have a inkling on what goes where,etc .
We my son and i have 3 E30,s which are going to run gas.

Simple induction , or fixed collar ,sometimes called single point will work due to the alloy inlet manifold of the M20 engine,it wont break when it back fires...and it will at some point.
You can have the above system in two options , closed loop or open loop as said above.If you think closed loop is for you then i would say consider a injection system,there are cheap options but be carefull which one you choose as there is a lot of crap on the market.For the diy,ers i will recomend speaking to Tinleytech.co.uk they are keenly priced and give great back up unlike some of the others.
second hand stuff can be a mine field if you dont know what you are looking at,check the local breakers yards before you hit the buy it now button on fleabay.
personally i would,nt bother with a mixer system as you will put a big restriction in the throttle body,it will strangle your power.
The very basic motronic management system lends itself well to running injection,no MIL lights to worry about etc and plenty of room in the engine bay to locate the componants.

I will hopefully start putting the kit on our track car very soon,when i do i will do a step by step guide .

if anyone wants info on converting their cars,what kits , where to get bits etc give me a call 07841 777872.
And if anyone wants a pro job , i can price it up for them.

The plans for our cars are all going gas,our track car is a work in progress and lives on our dyno it will get a Prins VSI system top of the range and will be run on the track on gas,our other 325 is going to get the Team AON BTCC liquid system we bought recently as is our LHD that is going V8,all will be documented as will be the mods we do to them.

cheers Keith

[Morat]

I suspect you are about to become very busy I look forward to the pics and guide very much! If you're fitting Prins, are you a Prins dealer or have you found some aftermarket software?

[Brianmoooore]

If you're fitting Prins, are you a Prins dealer or have you found some aftermarket software?

Ditto! Two of mine run Prins VSI, and although I have some diagnostic software, it's a pain not being able to adjust anything.

[Grrrmachine]

I've been neglecting the Wiki of late, but if any helpers want to assist then I can transfer the contents of this thread over fairly quickly:

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&t=196532

It also means Brian won't have to type out his excellent advice all over again

[freeflow]

Hi guys ,yes i am a Prins installer,been fitting VSI since 2001.
TBH once a vsi is installed its very rare for anything apart from vaporiser pressure to be adjusted and after the initial settling in period the del p will stay stable give or take .1 0r .2mb
eg my own daily driver has done 60k without even a filter change.
I will contact the mods re a traders add so we can offer forum discounts / group buys etc

I will do a write up on the install on our 325 we are fitting VSI to and also in the new year i,ll do the same with the Prins proto type liquid system we are fitting on the other 325,this one we are going to tune the nuts of it with dyno print outs for every mod,expect the liquid lpg to put out more than petrol by a long way.
The other thing we will be able to do is a track tests , lap times on LPG vs petrol as we plan to spend a lot of time at Brands hatch next year.

cheers Keith

[harry_p]

With the miles i do i've always fancied fitting lpg to my e36. It probably would have paid for itseld several times over by now.

unfortunately i'm reluctant to let others work on my cars, and reluctant to mess around with something i don't know much about, and i don't want to turn my engine into a rather large grenade space in the engine bay is pretty tight too!

does anyone do a kit for a 6 cylinder engine capable of making 300bhp?

[polsta]

Hi guys ,yes i am a Prins installer,been fitting VSI since 2001.
TBH once a vsi is installed its very rare for anything apart from vaporiser pressure to be adjusted and after the initial settling in period the del p will stay stable give or take .1 0r .2mb
eg my own daily driver has done 60k without even a filter change.
I will contact the mods re a traders add so we can offer forum discounts / group buys etc

I will do a write up on the install on our 325 we are fitting VSI to and also in the new year i,ll do the same with the Prins proto type liquid system we are fitting on the other 325,this one we are going to tune the nuts of it with dyno print outs for every mod,expect the liquid lpg to put out more than petrol by a long way.
The other thing we will be able to do is a track tests , lap times on LPG vs petrol as we plan to spend a lot of time at Brands hatch next year.

cheers Keith

what sort of price or bracket roughly are you predicting a set up with fitting would cost ?

with how fuel prices are going sooner or later everyones going to end up lpg`ing their 325s and lots of cars , but as they are old cars, people do look at home/diy type installs if prices are too high still , if you came up with a decent priced system that was too good for people to turn down rather than shell out a bit of an amount, youd sell 10 time more an build up a hell of a business !

[Brianmoooore]

i don't want to turn my engine into a rather large grenade space in the engine bay is pretty tight too!

does anyone do a kit for a 6 cylinder engine capable of making 300bhp?

If you want the potential to turn your car into a grenade, just continue driving around with a plastic tank containing up to 60 litres of petrol at the back of it, with rubber pipes under the bonnet circulating the petrol at 45 PSI!

Plenty of kits will make 300 bhp, as long as the pipe between the back and front of the car is increased to 8mm and the vaporiser has sufficient capacity. Twin vaporisers in parallel can be used if necessary.

[DanThe]

Its surprising the amount of people that think a tank full of propane is more dangerous than a tank half full of petrol
"Bomb in the back of your car" "fireball waiting to happen" are usually the favourite responses when these people discover you are running your car on LPG

[harry_p]

i was thinking more about my plumbing and installation on the engine side than the tank

[freeflow]

Thats the usual sort of thing we get asked...is it safe...??.
Its as safe as a safe thing locked in a safe.....but and there always is one,only joking.
As far as i know there has only really been 1 car recently that exploded,the was caused by some really piss poor work carried out by a firm in wembly[yes they were LPGA approved] driven by a really stupid man,who when he smelt gas opened the window and yep ypu guessed it ....lit a ciggy.The end result was an explosion that could have killed him.The garage ceased trading very shortly after and then did the time old Pheonix trick..

If you want to see some of the work we do , have a look on our projects page www.questmotorsport.co.uk .

I wont post prices incase i infringe forum rules but you are more than welcome to pm me.

If there is enough interest in this i will do 2 things,firstly a forum discount on me installing the system and secondly a complete diy kit including tank pipes etc and of course telephone back up,if there is enough interest again i could also offer rental of a ramp in my workshop with supervision whilst you DIY the kit,that way all tools and equipment are on hand and i can then certificate the job when its done.

All modern lpg systems have a failsafe built in ..if the delivery pressure drops it automatically shuts down the system including all solenoids on the tank and vaporiser.
Beleive me LPG is safer than your petrol system as said above.
We never make claims we cant back up,you wont beleive how many suppliers say 350 bhp no problem and cant make 200, the Prins system will run 47 bhp per cylinder with their yellow 73cc injector comfortably with room for more [ we have 600bhp on a boosted V8 ls chevy]
So you dont have any worries there.
We also have our own dyno which we can set all the conversion up on before you hit the road,trying to map a 300 brake car on the road is testing to say the least .

Give me an idea of numbers etc and i,ll start putting a kit together for the diy ers.

cheers Keith

[BenHar]

Give me an idea of numbers etc and i,ll start putting a kit together for the diy ers.

This would be great (depending on cost).

1. BenHar

Ben

[Morat]

Freeflow, the way to do this is to get a zone trader account which will give you a bigger PM inbox, zone trader tag and possibly your own forum if you want one. Then we'll insist that you publish prices and we'll monitor feedback.
Try PMing Steve (username: Steve ) and he should be able to sort you out.
All the best!
Morat

[Gavla]

Give me an idea of numbers etc and i,ll start putting a kit together for the diy ers.

This would be great, depending on cost.

1. BenHar
2. Gavla

[freeflow]

Thanks Morat, will do .

cheers Keith