E30m3 v standerd e30?

Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:35 pm

This is really for the people who have driven and owned both these cars.

What are the handling and drivability differences if any between the two,are there great differences?

Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:45 pm

I've owned a 325 sport and M3 Evo II. The 325 has a much smoother engine and handling is a good compromise between sporty and comfort. Great for a daily driver.

The 4 pot in the M3 is much rougher and is initially disappointing after driving the 6 pot 325. It's quite lumpy and doesn't have much torque low down. Get it over 5K though and it is awesome

Handling on the M3 is much sharper. Turn in is better and the car generally feels lighter on it's feet. I don't think you can really appreciate the M3 properly from a quick test drive. It's a car that definitely grows on you the more time you spend with it.

I wouldn't want to use the M3 every day though. You could, but it is a little too raw.

Kieran currently owns both so can give a decent comparison, but he doesn't take the M3 over 5K so may not have discovered it's charms yet

Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:40 pm

Actually should have mentioned that the comparison should be made with the 325 sport!!

Is the steering tge same number of turns lock to lock?

Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:10 pm

No, m3's have a lower lock to lock.

Funny you should mention this, was going to post something similar. I've just been approved for my mortgage and will have a lot more spare income so will hopefully be buying an m3 next year. I'm just worried it is going to be a case of never meet your heroes!

Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:26 pm

does the e30 m3 really have a wider track width than a standard e30?

How does it achieve this, if so? Are the actualy trailing arms different and are the front rear bearing and hub assemblies wider to lead to the increased track width?

Also, why do e30 m3s rust more than e30s? Or is it just the case that because it's an m3, they don't get scrapped as an ordinary e30 may.

Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:40 pm

macas wrote:Actually should have mentioned that the comparison should be made with the 325 sport!!

Is the steering tge same number of turns lock to lock?

Why only the sport? and not an SE?

What's the difference between an SE and a sport?

Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:53 pm

ross_jsy wrote:No, m3's have a lower lock to lock.

Funny you should mention this, was going to post something similar. I've just been approved for my mortgage and will have a lot more spare income so will hopefully be buying an m3 next year. I'm just worried it is going to be a case of never meet your heroes!

This is exactly why im asking these questions,but youv got to remember an m3 is an investment aswell,plus my mate today saidhe went and test drove one and commented on how the handling wasnt up to his expectations.

So what makes it better handling?did bmw use the same chassis as a normal e30?

Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:54 pm

macas wrote:Is the steering tge same number of turns lock to lock?

It is a quicker rack on the M3 but it could do with being a little quicker again sometimes to be honest.

redcar wrote:Also, why do e30 m3s rust more than e30s? Or is it just the case that because it's an m3, they don't get scrapped as an ordinary e30 may.

Think you've hit the nail on the head there mate.

Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:06 pm

macas wrote:
So what makes it better handling?did bmw use the same chassis as a normal e30?

Well for many reasons.

e30 m3 does have a different chassis, the c pillar is different, and it has wider rear and front arches as well as a wing on the back and some aerodynamics. This may contribute to higher downforce and better handling that the m3 may have. Also, there is an aerodynamic improving seal type thing around the bonnet and other areas.

Also, it's lower and has different springs and dampers to an ordinary e30, which may contribute to an e30 m3 possibly handing better than an ordinary e30.

On top of this, it has different front lollipop bushes (eccentric) which increase caster and camber that can improve handling. It's front wishbones are aluminium which reduces unsprung mass. The antiroll bar is mounted to the strut which can increase the effect of the ARB by 100% so i've heard said.

There are many more differences.

Also, the 4 pot up front can improve the weight distribution. This is the same reason an e30 318is will win a 325i round a track

However, all of these modifications, bar some of the aerodynamic ones, can easily be done to an ordinary e30. It's a shame that the e30 m3 is LHD, or maybe it's a shame that most of us are used to driving RHD cars. I think an e30 m3 can look really cool, but for the sake of a track car for example, due to the price of an e30 m3 and the sake of irreversible mods on a track car, an ordinary e30 may be more suited.

Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:10 pm

I prefer my M20 325i over the M3

Why ?? I'm putting it down to owning my 325 for 18yrs and it's more sentimental than anything else

As Ben said, the 6 is smoother where as the M3 needs to be pushed to get it moving and my driving style doesn't see it past 3.5k and that's pushing it

I'm a nancy

Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:11 pm

kieran325 wrote:I prefer my M20 325i over the M3

Why ?? I'm putting it down to owning my 325 for 18yrs and it's more sentimental than anything else

As Ben said, the 6 is smoother where as the M3 needs to be pushed to get it moving and my driving style doesn't see it past 3.5k and that's pushing it

I'm a nancy

You need a twin turbo diesel car!

Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:22 pm

I think to do a fair comparison you'd have to compare to a lhd 325i.

An m3 has loads more brake feel, and a more natural driving position than any rhd e30.

Standard m3 suspension is very similar to standard sport spec in terms of comfort and ride height. As mentioned the arb works from the strut which increases its effectiveness, and offset front arm bushes increase castor which gives more camber when turning.

True, the m3 4pot is a bit buzzy, but certainly not what I'd call harsh.
I used mine daily for 3 years with no issues, as did the previous owner for 18 months.

The lack of torque is a bit of a myth, they only feel like they don't have much torque because they have much more top end fizz than an e30 6pot. They still feel like they're pulling hard all the way to the 7300rpm limiter. Side by side, any gear, any revs a standard m3 will out drag a standard 325i.

M3 track is a bit wider, but not much. It must be in the hubs as the rear arms are the same as any other disk braked e30. As standard the m3 uses higher offset wheels than a normal e30.

The m3 comes into its own when driving it like you're supposed to, at which point it gets up on its tiptoes, and comes alive, perfectly balanced and totally adjustable.

To buy one just to take out for sunny weekend trips to the shops is a bit sad, and completely misses the point.

Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:33 pm

If you just want to go fast then from an engineering point of view the m3 has nothing that cant be equaled or bettered on a modified 325.

Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:28 am

To go from a standard M3 to a standard 325i is like going from a sport bike to a dinghy. but both can be fun i s'pose

Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:08 pm

HairyScreech wrote:If you just want to go fast then from an engineering point of view the m3 has nothing that cant be equaled or bettered on a modified 325.

True, but you're always going to be fighting the two extra cylinders hung out in front of the front wheels.

BMW had obviously decided that the e30 shell and layout was good enough as it was, as theyre basically identical underneath, the m3 body mods were all to improve cooling, aerodynamics and allow the fitment of wider wheels.

The only real change to the shell is the bonded in front screen to improve torsional rigidity, but modify a 325 for track use by stocking a cage in and it'll be loads stiffer than a standard m3.

Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:53 pm

Or just bond a screen into a normal E30 = same torsional rigidity.

Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:12 pm

True enough, I always just assumed the surrounds were different as its not something I've ever seen done before.

Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:43 pm

Nope, they are they same screen surround AFAIK.

I think demlotcrew bonded a screen in his S14 318iS.

Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:23 pm

harry_p wrote:
HairyScreech wrote:If you just want to go fast then from an engineering point of view the m3 has nothing that cant be equaled or bettered on a modified 325.
True, but you're always going to be fighting the two extra cylinders hung out in front of the front wheels.

the extra mass can be cured by removing a lot of weight from the very front of the car, afterall there is quite a lot of crap out there.
The washer tank, coolant tank and abs for one, thats a lot of stuff to be mounted right at the front of the car.
The header tank could be swapped for a pre-facelift one.
The abs pump and wash tank could very easily go where the back passenger footwell is.

Then consider the mass of the stock bumpers, fog lights, bonnet and latch, position of the ignition coil, pas tank etc.
Throw in an electric pas pump mounted on the empty battery tray with the coil and a light weight alternator and i should think you will have a lighter front end than a stock m3.

There is a lot of crap hanging out front of an e30 before you start to worry about the mass of a 6 pot, especially when you consider the benefits of a m52 engine.

(not a dig btw, just something i have been meaning to point out for a while)