Alpina C1, C2 AC Schnitzer, Hartge what is the difference??

[dizzyman]

Just wondered if any one new any good sites to explain what the difference is between Alpina C1, C2 AC Schnitzer, Hartge. I saw a c2 alpina touring sell for £4500 and it seemed a lot for a touring...

[Alex]

No such thing as a c1 touring

[dizzyman]

Yep sorry it was a 1988 Alpina C2 2.5 BMW E30 325I Touring Auto

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1988-Alpina-C2-2- ... 346wt_1131

[Alex]

basically styled and tuned by Alpina who are Bmw's only offical tuning company

[dizzyman]

I had a look online and it is only 15 bhp more than a normal 325i but has the block out of a 323i I think. So why the change for so little change bhp wise and why the big price tag?

[Alex]

I had a look online and it is only 15 bhp more than a normal 325i but has the block out of a 323i I think. So why the change for so little change bhp wise and why the big price tag?

the c2 2.5 was a modified 323i

the above advert is a bit of an odd one as i didnt think you could get a c2 2.5 on a a facelift

[dizzyman]

Its strange to mod a 323i to only get 15 bhp more than the standard 325i. The 323i spec looks a bit slow to start with? Do you know of any sites that have the spec for the mods. What's is the deal with AC Schnitzer and Hartge?

[bss325i]

The facelift C2 2.5 is actually officially called a C2.5 although most were badged as C2 2.5's.

The facelift C2.5 was based on a 325i and the engine spec was Alpina 268 camshaft, Alpina exhaust system and remaped Bosch motronic ECU to produce 192bhp.

The earlier pre facelift C2 2.5 was based on a 323i and an ETA block, 323i crank and custom pistons along with the Alpina camshaft, exhaust system and tweeked Bosch L jetronic ECU.

[bss325i]

Its strange to mod a 323i to only get 15 bhp more than the standard 325i. The 323i spec looks a bit slow to start with? Do you know of any sites that have the spec for the mods. What's is the deal with AC Schnitzer and Hartge?

The early C2 2.5's gains over the 323i were 36 bhp as a 323i has 149bhp.

[dizzyman]

When I looked on line ie wiki it rated the c2.5 as 185 bhp is that the pre face lift? You get 170 bhp out of a 325i. I would guess it is hard/expensive to get alpina parts so why the big price tag?

[pukar]

try the alpina register.......lots of info and some good pics of alpinas to get an idea of what each one looks like

http://www.thealpinaregister.com/stats

[bss325i]

When I looked on line ie wiki it rated the c2.5 as 185 bhp is that the pre face lift? You get 170 bhp out of a 325i. I would guess it is hard/expensive to get alpina parts so why the big price tag?

Yes a 325i has 171bhp but when the original C2 2.5 came out the was no 325i!

The gains over the 323i was 36bhp.

[Felix79]

When I looked on line ie wiki it rated the c2.5 as 185 bhp is that the pre face lift? You get 170 bhp out of a 325i. I would guess it is hard/expensive to get alpina parts so why the big price tag?

As Barry previously put you have a C2 2.5 which is the one made from a 323i and a 525eta lump. It has 185 bhp.

The C2.5 ( which uses a C2 2.5 badge ) is a moddified 325i which produces 196 bhp. A 325i is 171bhp in standard trim.

Alpina parts are expensive , even by BMW standards. The amount of conversions are extreamly low espcally on RHD e30's so a genuine one will command a premium.

[Nay]

Alpina, Hartge and AC Schnizter are all different car tuners.

Usually they make a few engine tweeks, a bit of interior and exterior work, and a new badge. Kind of like an alternative the the 'M' division. Or what 'Works' is to the new mini's, or Abarth to Fiat, etc. Didn't ACS do a new mini as well?

It's not always about bhp. Sometime its about how the car feels. You can change a few things in an engine to make it feel quite different, without much of an affect on the BHP.

[Kedge]

wrong thread

[Dezzy]

All sorted , and not had to waste any leave as he managed to come round before i have to leave for work.

The council bloke came round and was here for little more than 5 minutes. Just asked me a couple of questions about what it is i do to the cars, was more concerned at the hours i work on them and how noisey the work i carryout. Simply told him its weekends only and nothing particularly noisey other than the odd bump and bang (usually me losing my temper).

Had a quick look out the back and said he was impressed with how tidy our land is and that there is nothing to answer to.

The best thing is though he got totally sidetracked about the neighbourghs bits of land. Said most of them were actually health and safety issues and so started taking pictures. Will have to see what comes of that as to be fair most the crap has been there years before half the people on the street have lived here.

I should be receiving a letter next week as confirmation everything is ok.

was this ment for your pubtalk thread? Ha ha

[Kedge]

[Dezzy]

Glad it's sorted anyway mate.

[Felix79]

Alpina, Hartge and AC Schnizter are all different car tuners.

Usually they make a few engine tweeks, a bit of interior and exterior work, and a new badge. Kind of like an alternative the the 'M' division. Or what 'Works' is to the new mini's, or Abarth to Fiat, etc. Didn't ACS do a new mini as well?

It's not always about bhp. Sometime its about how the car feels. You can change a few things in an engine to make it feel quite different, without much of an affect on the BHP.

Hartge did a Mini which was reviewed on Topgear donkeies ago.

[bss325i]

Alpina, Hartge and AC Schnizter are all different car tuners.

Usually they make a few engine tweeks, a bit of interior and exterior work, and a new badge. Kind of like an alternative the the 'M' division. Or what 'Works' is to the new mini's, or Abarth to Fiat, etc. Didn't ACS do a new mini as well?

It's not always about bhp. Sometime its about how the car feels. You can change a few things in an engine to make it feel quite different, without much of an affect on the BHP.

Hartge did a Mini which was reviewed on Topgear donkeies ago.

AC schnitzer and Hartge do stuff for the mini.

[Felix79]

Alpina, Hartge and AC Schnizter are all different car tuners.

Usually they make a few engine tweeks, a bit of interior and exterior work, and a new badge. Kind of like an alternative the the 'M' division. Or what 'Works' is to the new mini's, or Abarth to Fiat, etc. Didn't ACS do a new mini as well?

It's not always about bhp. Sometime its about how the car feels. You can change a few things in an engine to make it feel quite different, without much of an affect on the BHP.

Hartge did a Mini which was reviewed on Topgear donkeies ago.

AC schnitzer and Hartge do stuff for the mini.

Have Styner/Alpina done anything with the hatefull little things?

[bss325i]

Hartge did a Mini which was reviewed on Topgear donkeies ago.

AC schnitzer and Hartge do stuff for the mini.

Have Styner/Alpina done anything with the hatefull little things?

Not to my knowlege.

[magpie]

a Fartge mini

not like a cooper then

[Felix79]

a Fartge mini

not like a cooper then

The Hartge is actually more powerfull than the works cooper S. Basically they are all hot Coper S's.