what engine is in an 86 318i

[johnnyg]

can anyone let me know if it is a an m10 carb or an m20

[capri_rob]

If its got an i on the end it ain't gonna be a carb mate

[johnnyg]

it has got an i on it but i thought they didnt intro the m20 till mid sept 1987.

Do some 318i models have the carb engine

thanks

[capri_rob]

The early 316 models had a 1.8 litre carb engines ( hence the lack of i on the badge ) - but the 318i had fuel injection from when it was first introduced. The M20 type engine is the 6 cylinder block.

[johnnyg]

thanks - super stuff

[capri_rob]

No Probs mate

[Gwynleym10]

Pre 1987 318i is m10 with L jetronic injection - this engine is very similar to the 316 engine that is a carb
Post 1988 318i has m40 Montronic injection.

M20 - all e30 320 / 323 / 325

[Andyboy]

318i until around August 1983 had Bosch K Jetronic but they weren't sold in the UK. After that it used the 1766cc M10 with Bosch LE jet (the later economy biased version of Bosch L) with overrun fuel shut off and 105 bhp. Not a bad engine but a bit fartless. After than was the M40 which as a car was rather better than the old M10 with very good torque and much better economy.
The M10 318i is similar to the 316 carb (also 1766cc) but the head was very different with bigger and different shaped ports. Given reasonable care they are bombproof.

[johnnyg]

thanks for the info

so just to clarify this 318i 1986 car should have an m10 1766cc bosch le jet engine

it is not very good on economy - any clue as to what the mpg is?

And if the engine is in pretty good nick - you should have no worries mechanically overall

cheers

johnny

[78dude]

Like ppl are saying here, its an M10 with an EFI system on it!

[Fushion_Julz]

The M10 is a fine engine...

Economy? depends on how you drive...anything between 20-40mpg

It is possible to tune the M10 keeping standard or easily available replacement internals up to around 200bhp or over.

The basic block was the basis of the 80s F1 turbo motor as used by Brabham with Nelson Piquet et al...

It also shares many common features of the S14 motor as found in the E30 M3...It is a fairly easy swap to either stroke the M10 to 2.3litres using an M3 crank or to drop the entire S14 unit into a M10 car...usually done on the 02 shell, but I'm sure it would be easy enough on a M10 base E30, too....

[Onz]

its a fine engine and very easy to modify, The 2002 used a 2L version of this lump. good all rounder imo

[RugbySteve]

The M10 is a fine engine...

Economy? depends on how you drive...anything between 20-40mpg

It is possible to tune the M10 keeping standard or easily available replacement internals up to around 200bhp or over.

The basic block was the basis of the 80s F1 turbo motor as used by Brabham with Nelson Piquet et al...

It also shares many common features of the S14 motor as found in the E30 M3...It is a fairly easy swap to either stroke the M10 to 2.3litres using an M3 crank or to drop the entire S14 unit into a M10 car...usually done on the 02 shell, but I'm sure it would be easy enough on a M10 base E30, too....

Tell me more about the tuning of the m10, ive got one as standard and currently thinking about trying to get somemore power out of it!! So very interested in standard tuning and the 200bhp tuning!

[johnnyg]

steve how are you fining the 318i - what are your thoughts on this engine - anything yuo should look out for in particular with this motor

thanks
johnny

[Fushion_Julz]

Tell me more about the tuning of the m10, ive got one as standard and currently thinking about trying to get somemore power out of it!! So very interested in standard tuning and the 200bhp tuning!

Depends on what you are aiming for....

The bottom end is good for at least 230bhp and 8000rpm without anything more than lightening and balancing...

The first step is finding some high compression pistons that allow the lift your new cam is going to produce...
Alpina ones fit the bill but are a bit expensive, Mahle ones are also good...

Then you want a headfrom a 518i (early ones, obviously) as they have bigger valves and ports.
You'll need to have it gas flowed and probably big inlet valves, at least...

Now you need to decide if you want carburettor or FI...Former, you want a twin sidedraught setup (Mangoletsi or stock 02Ti inlet manifold) and have it all polished and flowed along with the head and the carbs (2 x 45DCOE or 2 x 50DCO Webers)
If you're going FI, you'll want the Kugelfisher pump from a 2002Tii and a slide throttle setup as used on the Alpina race cars of the 70s...
Not impossible, but hard to find, for sure...

Schrick for your cam...profile dependant on what use you want...

You'll also want the later type of rocker shafts and rockers and Schrick or Alpina valve springs if you want 8000rpm.

Variable cam timing wheel, custom made distributor plate (for advance to suit your cam) and that should be enough...

I had a race engine, on carbs, with roughly that spec and it made a solid 198bhp. I know at least one race car on slide throttles, but basically the same spec otherwise, that made 210bhp and a 2.3 litre stroker using an M3 cam on slide throttles that made over 230bhp...
I also know of a rally car that had a road-useable, more tractable
motor that made 175bhp but only needed to rev to 6500rpm with more torque, too...

[Alex]

m10

1766cc injected

[GrindCulture]

Tell me more about the tuning of the m10, ive got one as standard and currently thinking about trying to get somemore power out of it!! So very interested in standard tuning and the 200bhp tuning!

Depends on what you are aiming for....

The bottom end is good for at least 230bhp and 8000rpm without anything more than lightening and balancing...

The first step is finding some high compression pistons that allow the lift your new cam is going to produce...
Alpina ones fit the bill but are a bit expensive, Mahle ones are also good...

Then you want a headfrom a 518i (early ones, obviously) as they have bigger valves and ports.
You'll need to have it gas flowed and probably big inlet valves, at least...

Now you need to decide if you want carburettor or FI...Former, you want a twin sidedraught setup (Mangoletsi or stock 02Ti inlet manifold) and have it all polished and flowed along with the head and the carbs (2 x 45DCOE or 2 x 50DCO Webers)
If you're going FI, you'll want the Kugelfisher pump from a 2002Tii and a slide throttle setup as used on the Alpina race cars of the 70s...
Not impossible, but hard to find, for sure...

Schrick for your cam...profile dependant on what use you want...

You'll also want the later type of rocker shafts and rockers and Schrick or Alpina valve springs if you want 8000rpm.

Variable cam timing wheel, custom made distributor plate (for advance to suit your cam) and that should be enough...

I had a race engine, on carbs, with roughly that spec and it made a solid 198bhp. I know at least one race car on slide throttles, but basically the same spec otherwise, that made 210bhp and a 2.3 litre stroker using an M3 cam on slide throttles that made over 230bhp...
I also know of a rally car that had a road-useable, more tractable
motor that made 175bhp but only needed to rev to 6500rpm with more torque, too...

All that sounds so good! How much money you looking at for something like that? I'm guessing it's not going to be cheap though...

[Shadow7]

I truly find it amazing that someone, responding to another asking for advice about a car he saw advertised, saw the man's ignorance as an opportunity for him to paint a picture of a car he has never seen. And in a not, shall we say, very attractive light. True to your own wisdom (I mean that in an ironic sense, obviously), â€Ëayou're clever but not a mind reader', you spot out the negative points of the car. A car, and I'm going to say it again, you have never seen, you said, and I quote again that the â€Ëabody is rotten', it's â€Ëacouncilled up', and â€Ëathe engine oozes oil from every join and rattles like it is on its death bed'. Presumably, a â€Ëafull body restoration' (if you even read the advert http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/463989.htm ), translates as rotten. And presumably KW, Eibach, Brembo and Image are on the shopping list of everyone who lives on a council estate. And presumably given it's been maintained by a reputable independent BMW garage (notable for their race prep) for the past two years and prior to that with the previous owner, that there's oil pouring out from every where and it sounds like a rattle snake. I know of the car well from shows and PBMW mag, and yes it is a fair bit of money for what essentially is a 22-year-old 318i but it's also had thousand's worth of upgrades fitted to it, and I don't think you'd find another one (standard or not) for not much less money in the same condition, body and interior-wise. Not to mention the Image rims, second hand or not my friend pacerpete, are worth up to a grand. Just for the record, it's not â€Ëaan old snotter'… but if you feel necessary to bitch again in the future (I'm guessing you probably will), do your research, speak to people, or at least acquire just even a few facts, before offering advice to others about something you clearly know nothing about, or seemingly not much else on the subject of E30s for that matter.

[GrindCulture]

...what?

[pacerpete]

I truly find it amazing that someone, responding to another asking for advice about a car he saw advertised, saw the man's ignorance as an opportunity for him to paint a picture of a car he has never seen. And in a not, shall we say, very attractive light. True to your own wisdom (I mean that in an ironic sense, obviously), â€Ëayou're clever but not a mind reader', you spot out the negative points of the car. A car, and I'm going to say it again, you have never seen, you said, and I quote again that the â€Ëabody is rotten', it's â€Ëacouncilled up', and â€Ëathe engine oozes oil from every join and rattles like it is on its death bed'. Presumably, a â€Ëafull body restoration' (if you even read the advert http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/463989.htm ), translates as rotten. And presumably KW, Eibach, Brembo and Image are on the shopping list of everyone who lives on a council estate. And presumably given it's been maintained by a reputable independent BMW garage (notable for their race prep) for the past two years and prior to that with the previous owner, that there's oil pouring out from every where and it sounds like a rattle snake. I know of the car well from shows and PBMW mag, and yes it is a fair bit of money for what essentially is a 22-year-old 318i but it's also had thousand's worth of upgrades fitted to it, and I don't think you'd find another one (standard or not) for not much less money in the same condition, body and interior-wise. Not to mention the Image rims, second hand or not my friend pacerpete, are worth up to a grand. Just for the record, it's not â€Ëaan old snotter'… but if you feel necessary to bitch again in the future (I'm guessing you probably will), do your research, speak to people, or at least acquire just even a few facts, before offering advice to others about something you clearly know nothing about, or seemingly not much else on the subject of E30s for that matter.

Wow , you must be bored or a fit ginger bird ?

Johnny asked a very vague question pertaining to a C plate 318i, i generalised and said most are scrap and landfill (FACT) and asked for more details. Being a chap of decent breeding and background , i am not familiar with the comic that is PBMW so i did not recognize the reg index like some of our more easily pleased members
A link finally appears showing a rather ordinary looking 318 that someone has spunked a load of money on .
I have never seen the car in question and never stated that THIS specific car is a bogged up oil spewing turd, what i did state was that MOST are and that £2800 for a 318 with a set of shiny USED wheels is not worth £2800
Good luck with the sale of your car , but don't hold your breath !

[Joe-318i]

mines a 1987 D reg and thats a M10 engine 318i flue injection no card
chain driven

[Andyboy]

it's been maintained by a reputable independent BMW garage (notable for their race prep)

Hmm, they changed the cambelt on my 320i and left the growly old tensioner in along with a rotor arm that should be in a museum. But that's not relating to this car which from memory looks a very straight old thing.

Said 320i - a 2 owner from new car which has had a full body job, Bilstein shocks, Eibach springs, new Toyos all round as well as a complete mechanical going over (cambelt/tensioner/water pump, top mounts, BMW clutch kit etc etc etc will be about £13-1500 (optimistic) and I can guarantee you it's better that the blue one - plus it's a 320i with an LSD, PAS, electric roof and windows.

But well done on rescuing the blue one - always good to see another Chromie! It will be very interesting to see what it sells for.

[johnnyg]

Dear Shadow 7,
Asking questions about a car you are considering buying is not a sign of one's "ignorance" as you so politely put it. In fact it is quite the opposite - being thorough - yes that is what i would call it.
If the car is as good as it reads on pistonheads, then you have nothing to worry about what someone says about that particular model and not this individual car.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, so before shooting down their views or referring to my so called "ignorance" - I would suggest that you take a reality check on your pricing policy. 318's are nowhere near the price you are stating - fact. Maybe that is a sign of your ignorance. And yes i have glanced at this months mag - the one where the editor wrote about how the immobiliser put on the car is killing it. I do hope the editor is not going to charge any potential buyers for that type of headache.


So is it a good motor then joe - would you reccomend an m10 engine.

johnny

[Jhonno]

Wow , you must be bored or a fit ginger bird ?

[Fushion_Julz]

All that sounds so good! How much money you looking at for something like that? I'm guessing it's not going to be cheap though...

It's relative, of course...
Cheap as in "£150 for a s/h lump" it ain't...But to build a tuned sub 2 litre motor with 8 valves that uses mostly off the shelf parts it isn't gonna be too much...

A block and crank can probably be had for a few quid...The head, probably similar from a scrappy who isn't too aware of the desirability of 518 heads

The expensive bits are gonna be the pistons and the slide throttles if you choose to go that route.

At a guess, I'd say £5k for a fresh motor with carbs, manifold, and all the machining done...

Having just rebuilt my S14, I know that it cost circa £3k and when fully run in I'm expecting around 215bhp...
Considering that it came out of the factory with (allegedly) 195-200bhp, that isn't a big increase over stock...

A stock 2litre M10 had 120bhp on Kugelfischer and 115bhp on twin Del'ortos...
Even a Turbo M10 only had 170bhp...

Other than rocker shafts and rockers tending to break, the M10 is fairly indestructible...

The spec to get 198bhp as I had in my 02 racer a few years ago, lasted for 6 seasons of racing competitively. The only problems in that time were a few bent valves: result of a missed gearchange at Snetterton and a broken rocker at Zandvoort...The engine lives on, essentially un-rebuilt in a road-going 2002...

[Mox3d]

FWIW there was also a 2 liter version of the m10 in the very earliest e21 320 models. I've seen only one in my lifetime though, an extremely rare car then. Virtually extinct now.

I had a plan to run a 2 liter m10 e21 in the Car Club series till the bottom fell out of my racing career

[capri_rob]

Just re-read the pistonheads ad again and there are a few things that would concern me if I were thinking of buying this car - "Some History" - If I was going to blow £2800 on an E30 it would have to have very full and comprehensive history - "last serviced in October 2007" - So you'll want at least an Oil servive done now then probably ?

The rear disc conversion is a nice thing to have - probably a good few hours work but not massively expensive - same with the M Tech wheel & gearknob - easily available secondhand for not that much cash.

Suspension setup sounds good but in reality why have they splashed so much on the braking system on a 318i ? - The standard brakes arent that bad and if the engine hasn't been touched ( Im assuming not as they have harped on about everything but the engine ) why bother ?

Plus any ad that mentions car mats ( so what ?? ) or goes into specifics of a sound system install starts ringing alarm bells.

If you've got the best part of £3k to splash on an E30 you might be better buying a solid base car for £1500 - £2000 and then spending the rest of the cash building it to the spec you want.

Will be interesting to see if/when this car sells and for how much.

[Andyboy]

The 2 litre M10 also went into the E12 520 from 1972 to 1977. It had a better design of head known as the E12 head and it was used on the 2002 from late 1972. M10 520's used twin Stromberg 175CDET carbs until the end, 520i's used Kugelfischer mechanical injection until the end of 1975 afterv which it went to Bosch K Jetronic.

One of my Dad's customers from 20 years ago had a Golf yellow 520i on Kugelfisher and that went very well. Faster and better on fuel than the carbed 6 cylinder car - progress eh?

You can make an LE Jet 318i like this a bit faster for virtually nothing - just raise the fuel pressure 1/2 a bar, increase the timing a few degrees (until it pinks and back it off ) and run it on Super. I did this to an E28 518i and it went a lot better.

[Fushion_Julz]

FWIW there was also a 2 liter version of the m10 in the very earliest e21 320 models. I've seen only one in my lifetime though, an extremely rare car then. Virtually extinct now.

I had a plan to run a 2 liter m10 e21 in the Car Club series till the bottom fell out of my racing career

When the E21 was new there was a 320 and a 320/6...the 320 (also known as the 320/4) did indeed have the M10 in the same spec as the 2002...

AFAIK, there was also a 320i with Kugelfischer equipped M10

But why would you want to race one? The 02 shell is lighter and stiffer...certainly with a cage fitted...and aren't too hard to find...

Why did your racing career finish?

[capri_rob]

For £3k you could have this.....http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/464631.htm

No association with seller

I know which one i'd buy......

[RugbySteve]

steve how are you fining the 318i - what are your thoughts on this engine - anything yuo should look out for in particular with this motor

thanks
johnny

Johnny,

Ive had my 1986 318i for 18 months now and she is a very reliable unit! Only just gone passed 94k! If you let the engine warm up properly before taking above 4,000 revs and do a regular oil change every 6 months the engine will be bullit proof and last a long long time!! They are not particularly fast but great fun to drive on B roads and will happily sit at 90mpy on the motorways (where allowed!) all day long! Oh and in the wet can be just as tail happy as 325's! The M10 is easy to do maintanence on as its such a old engine design! And as with all E30's, check the body for rust especially the rear archs as cab be expensive to fix! So in summary not the quickest e30 but still alot of fun to drive!

[RugbySteve]

Just re-read the pistonheads ad again and there are a few things that would concern me if I were thinking of buying this car - "Some History" - If I was going to blow £2800 on an E30 it would have to have very full and comprehensive history - "last serviced in October 2007" - So you'll want at least an Oil servive done now then probably ?

The rear disc conversion is a nice thing to have - probably a good few hours work but not massively expensive - same with the M Tech wheel & gearknob - easily available secondhand for not that much cash.

Suspension setup sounds good but in reality why have they splashed so much on the braking system on a 318i ? - The standard brakes arent that bad and if the engine hasn't been touched ( Im assuming not as they have harped on about everything but the engine ) why bother ?

Plus any ad that mentions car mats ( so what ?? ) or goes into specifics of a sound system install starts ringing alarm bells.

If you've got the best part of £3k to splash on an E30 you might be better buying a solid base car for £1500 - £2000 and then spending the rest of the cash building it to the spec you want.

Will be interesting to see if/when this car sells and for how much.

Have to agree with this picked mine up for £1200 with 85k on the clock 18 months ago, so for £1400 more I could have done some tasty things to it, spec-ing it to my own requirements! As pointed out for not much more than £2800 you could have http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/464631.htm and I know I would rather fork out a extra £200! In fact im tempted to buy the 325 myself!

[johnnyg]

Yes - i think you are right lads - too much money spent on this car and not enough time planning it - its a bit agricultural really.

Do like the 325 - but hope i dont offend anyone when i say that i just cant do

Steve thanks for the info on the 318i - really appreciate that.

Do you know what is the best mpg you can get out of your motor and if you chipped it would it make a difference to the performance.

Pete - completely agree with you - pbmw mats - says it all really

Thanks Boys

Johnny

[RugbySteve]

Around town its not too good mpg wise not worked it out but probablt low 20's but on a run its alot better! the 318i has a 55 litre tank and if driven carefully, I can eek out 350 / 375 miles out of one tank! Which isnt too bad!

A well maintained engine will return better mpg!!

As for chipping, it shouldnt effect it too much mpg wise, just a little! Mine is standard so cant really confirm this though!

[Andyboy]

You can't chip the ECU on the M10 318i - it's an analogue ECU and not digital.