2.8 build

[JazzMan]

My car's going to be off the road for a bit waiting for parts so I'm thinking of dropping the M52B28 crank in and the dbilas cam, so for I've got this as a list of required parts:

* Water pump
* Oil pump (if it needs replacing!)
* Cam belt (although I only just did that, suppose it cant hurt)
* Top end gasket's set (head, oil seals etc)
* Bottom end gaskets / seals
* Crank shells
* Various stretch bolts
* Piston rings (if no longer within tolerance)

Anything I'm missing?

Here's the bits going in:

[HairyScreech]

theres a price list for engine rebuild parts in the genuine bmw parts department, i started it a couple of weeks ago.

[JazzMan]

I'll have a look thanks

[daimlerman]

What is the spec of that cam,please?

[JazzMan]

282°/272°

[ed325i]

Have you got the spacer for the front of the crank ?

[JazzMan]

Have you got the spacer for the front of the crank ?

Not yet, I need to machine it on the lathe

[Turbo-Brown]

Ooh, what are the rods from?

They look nice and meaty

[JazzMan]

Ooh, what are the rods from?

They look nice and meaty

M20B20, them from someone on the zone

[JazzMan]

The current engine had 111k on it, and with the zone chip started running really well so we were not expecting any major issues. Part of the rebuild will involve dropping an M52B28 crank shaft and M20B20 conrods into the block. This will make it a square engine with an increase in capacity to 2.8ltrs. Further the head will receive a new set of performance valve springs and a dbilas 282°/272° camshaft. All gaskets and seals are also being replaced.

Head off!


Inspection of the head reveals its in prett y good condition!

Nice tip for getting the bolt out the end of the cam shaft. Put the old timing belt around it, then loop the open end of the belt round the work mate. This locks it in place and allows the easy removal of he botl!

Rocker number out, shaft on its way out

Camshaft and everything else removed from head minus the valves

First valve out, couldn't take any more out as the valve spring clamp we bought was not big enough, needs to go back for the more expensive one!

The water pump was shot, all the bearings gone so that's why I had a bit of a funny noise from the engine.

More to follow!

[DanThe]

Should be a good lump

Make sure you get that crank balanced

[JazzMan]

Will do, probably go to do it with the fly wheel attached as well?

I forgot to say big thanks to the person who wrote the "Stripping and Rebuilding an M20 Cylinder Head" in the technical articles section it was a great help today

[DanThe]

Yes have the flywheel done at the same time. (one of Iain's would be perfect for this)

Also the front pulley and the rods/pistons

If I were you I would fit a new oil pump as a matter of course as they are not that dear, unlike the M50 oil pump

[JazzMan]

Rather than buying a new valve spring compressor we decided to make an extension for the current one.

After lathing the tube to the correct size with a suitable amount taken out the inside to fit over the clamp it needed holes in the side so that you can still remove the collets after compressing the springs:
The completed adapter attached:

And now in use on the head to remove the valves. Looking at this it would seem that it would have been possible to use it without the extension but it would seems to be easier this way up!

The intake valves and valve seats look great, but the exhaust seats and valves need re-grinding. They are just starting to pit. All in all everything seems to be in very good condition.

All the valves, springs and collets arranged in order waiting to be cleaned up.

The head could do with a dip, it seems to be nice and straight but I think I'll find a machine shop to double check everything for me!

[Brianmoooore]

I'd change the exhaust valve guides before recutting the seats. In my experience, these guides are the first thing to wear on a M20 head.

[Simon13]

are those matching valve springs for the cam?

[JazzMan]

are those matching valve springs for the cam?

They were sold with the cam, but they are Schrick not dbilas like the cam

[ed325i]

Are you using a low or high compression engine ?

[JazzMan]

Are you using a low or high compression engine ?

Later lower compression from a 1988 car.

Took the head to a local machine shop today, its booked in for crack testing initially before any work is done on it. Should be done by Tuesday!

Also got some "Just Orange" degreaser from Cromwell.co.uk:
http://www.cromwell.co.uk/SOL7272800A 1ltr
http://www.cromwell.co.uk/SOL7272810B 5ltr

Supposed to be some of the best degreaser there is! Had a bit of a start on the first set of valves. The exhaust ones are really badly caked, intake not so bad! Just orange, ultrasonic cleaner and a brass wire brush are cleaning up the rockers nicely!

[march109]

Are you using new pistons too? What spec?

I know a company that do a high flow oil pump if your looking for big hp, even of your not a new oil pump is probably a good idea even if it is just piece of mind that you won't have to strip down and rebuild again for a while.

[JazzMan]

Going to be using the current pistons, unless they are in anyway damaged - but I should think they will be.

I'm looking for more torque to offset the more aggressive cam. Although I'm considering supercharging at some point maybe.

[JazzMan]

The head is off to the local machine shop for crack testing, we'll know if everything is good on Tuesday. If it is then it'll get a bit of clean up.

Clean valves! This took a lot of time! The exhaust vales were cakes. Used a technique from another Sportster builder placed the valve in drill and used increasingly finer sand paper to take the layers off and then some metal polish to finish it. The intake valves just need a run over with 1200 grit & some degreaser, then metal polish.
This was a 4 hour process with two people and two drills so about 8 work hours to clean them up! Some of them still have a bit of carbon build up but its very small and they still need to be run through the ultrasonic cleaner and degreaser!

The tops of the valves where cleaned like the bottom half, the centres took a bit more work with sand paper and the edge of a knif blade. The only area left alone was valve seating area, that will be ground in when the head comes back from the machine shop.

Rest of the engine is out of the Sportster, looking a bit empty now.

Engine and gearbox out!

The clutch coming off

Sump off!

6 pistons removed from the block and numbered. They need a good clean and the conrods swapping for the 130mm M20B20 ones. I'm going to check the M52B28 conrods and the M50B25 ones I've got knocking about as well see if there's anything more suitable.

Bores in the block look great!

Flywheel off, had to lock the crankshaft in place with a metal bar between piston 3 and 4 then the bolts came out really easy!

Crank bolt came out really easy - surprisingly!

[burrows]

Looks like a wicked project bud, what sort of hp/ tq should this give

[JazzMan]

Looks like a wicked project bud, what sort of hp/ tq should this give

Not sure on the actual numbers but I'm hoping for a chunk more torque at the bottom and in the mid range to offset the more aggressive cam which should give more power at the top end but rob a bit of torque from the bottom

I hope to get it on a dyno at some point in the future.

[Phatz]

Hi mate, been following this thread closely as I will be undertaking a similar project myself soon. Just wondered if you had established if the M52B28 Crank you have is of the none TU type (I think this was discussed in another thread?). I myself have a crankshaft but I'm unsure of how to identify a TU one from a normal one. Any ideas?

Looks like it's progressing well anyway.

Cheers

Martin

[march109]

6 pistons removed from the block and numbered. They need a good clean and the conrods swapping for the 130mm M20B20 ones. I'm going to check the M52B28 conrods and the M50B25 ones I've got knocking about as well see if there's anything more suitable.
URL]

You now I'm following your thread closely when I ask; why is there only 5 then??????

[JazzMan]

Hi mate, been following this thread closely as I will be undertaking a similar project myself soon. Just wondered if you had established if the M52B28 Crank you have is of the none TU type (I think this was discussed in another thread?). I myself have a crankshaft but I'm unsure of how to identify a TU one from a normal one. Any ideas?

Looks like it's progressing well anyway.

Cheers

Martin

The other thread spoke of removable counter weights, I can't see any. I'm close to pulling the old crank out now. Once it's out I can size everything up and make sure it fits.

[JazzMan]

6 pistons removed from the block and numbered. They need a good clean and the conrods swapping for the 130mm M20B20 ones. I'm going to check the M52B28 conrods and the M50B25 ones I've got knocking about as well see if there's anything more suitable.
URL]

You now I'm following your thread closely when I ask; why is there only 5 then??????

I've got the only 5 cylinder M20 in the world seriously the last one was still in the block with I took that picture and I didn't count them when I posted the picture

[Phatz]

Okay mate, let us know how it turns out. Also, what made you choose a Dbilas camshaft over say a Schrick, Piper or Cat for instance?

Cheers

[JazzMan]

Okay mate, let us know how it turns out. Also, what made you choose a Dbilas camshaft over say a Schrick, Piper or Cat for instance?

Cheers

Just saw them on eBay from a German company, price was good as was the price for the new valve springs. I've been thinking about Dbilas ITB's so there's a bit of brand matching there! (not that it would really matter!) I wasn't aware of Cat cams at the time I bought it otherwise I probably would have gone with those.

[Phatz]

Okay mate, I'll keep watching for progress.

[JazzMan]

M52B28 crank shaft sitting in the M20 block - this end will need some kind of spacer for the oil seal.



Crank sits in the block like it was meant to be there, runs round without any clearance issues - only other thing that needs to be tested is the M20B20 130mm conrod with the M20B25 pistons in place to check clearances.



One more picture for good measure!



One question, how the h*** to do you the cam belt pulley off the crank? It seems to be wedge solid. The cam chain pulley came right off the M52 crank so I assume its the same with the M20 except I've got 20 years of gunk keeping it on!

[march109]

best thread ever, excellant pics and write up. Please keep it up.

[Andyboy]

282°/272°

I hope you know a friendly MOT tester. That might not pass the emissions test due to excess hydrocarbons.

The crank front spacer is made on a lathe from the M52 front pulley hub and the standard M52 bolt is used. Use 130mm rods and stock 325i pistons, no block machining needed although a 3-4 though cleanup shave is worth doing.

[koos]

I took mine off with a 3/4 impact gun. It can be taken off when the crank is in the block by putting a block of wood between the block and a counterweight.