Bellhousing & Slave Cylinder fitting

[reddevil]

Hi Guys, as some of you will have seen in this post:

http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... ic&t=59868

I was fitting a new clutch slave cylinder yesterday when the bolt snapped at the top (just near the fixing bolt). Does anyone know if these studs are actually attached to the bell housing (ie, part of the cast) or are they removable? push out etc?. Just hoping beyond all hope that they are not part of the cast and that this one stud won't ruin my gearbox bellhousing.

Any thoughts?

Cheers

Red D

[bigdek]

it has a knurled end m8 .

a good whack and it should knock out .

21511203012 is the part number for a new bolt

you may manage this without removing the gearbox. if you can put something in the slave cylinder hole to catch it. put the new one in and draw it up with the nut

[reddevil]

So it's number 19 on here:



Sounds hopefull, I'm not even going to try getting it out myself though, but you think this is something a professional garage would be able to do?

I have number 20 in my hand, that's the bolt that came away with the top of the stud, once I get the slave cylinder removed there is loads of stud still showing as it's now flush with the hole.

Hope at last.....lol

cheers

Red Devil

[Brianmoooore]

it has a knurled end m8 .

Never new that!! Assumed it was a stud in a tapped hole, and would have advised him to screw it out!!!
Should be an easy job then through the pushrod hole, but you don't want to drop it! I would get some string around the old one as soon as its moved back a fraction, and put the new one in with string attached as well.

[reddevil]

So what is a "knurled end"?, does that mean it's screwed into the bell housing from the outside?, so if I can get it out I would simply screw another one in?

Sorry for my ignorance, learning as I go here.

Cheers

[old_skool]

A No it's not screwed in. Instead it knocks into the bellhousing on splines.

If you were to tap it into the bellhousing it would creep back on its splines and then fall out after 5 or 6mm, hence the importance of getting some string or a strong magnet on it.

Good luck with it

[reddevil]

So I hit it towards the bellhousing (knock it into) and it will pop back out>

[Chris-W]

Knock it from the outside and it will, unless you find a way of catching it, fall inside the bell housing.

[reddevil]

So there is hope after all??, I will go and buy one of these knurled bolts tomorrow morning so I can see what it looks like and try and get my head around how it pops out when I smack it into the bell housing, there's more than enough showing to get some string or bolts onto it since it snapped right at the top of the stud.

Thank God

Red D

[jmc330i]

Thats all it is. The splines are quite fine, so you cant make them out in the pic - its the 5-6mm before the flat head.
Ive taken a couple out and they didnt take much to pop them out. If you can get a nut on the end it will be easy, as you dont have to worry about it falling into the bell housing.

[reddevil]

Ah, perfect, just what I was looking for, so I tap it in whilst pulling it out and it'll pop out?.

Sorry if I seem thick as pig sh*t, but in this case I am.

red Devil

[Chris-W]

As mentioned above - stick a nut on the thread a couple of turns before you knock it in.

[Brianmoooore]

The head of the bolt (the largest diameter bit) is inside the bell housing. You need to get the string around the bolt as close to the head as possible, which you won't be able to do until the remains are pushed a few mm inwards.
To fit the new one, manoeuvre it in through the push rod hole and out through the hole where it fits. When it reaches the splined section twist it a little so that the splines on the bolt line up with the splines in the alloy.
Find a couple of nuts a bit larger than the nut that fits the stud, and a couple of washers, and slide them onto the stud so as to leave about 6 - 7 mm of thread showing. Screw a nut onto the exposed thread, and as you tighten it, you will draw the splined section right into the alloy.
Make sure that you don't reach the end of the thread with the nut you are screwing on. Unscrew it and add more washers if necessary.

[reddevil]

Right Guys, an update, I have managed to order two new bolts (a spare in case) and 20 new nuts (only sold in bags of 20, so I have spares if anyone wants them....lol).

I picked them up tonight and have spent the past few hours crawling round on the floor, but GOOD NEWS. I have managed to get the second bolt off (came straight off, no snapping, no breaking), so now I am left with this:



Or seen from another angle:



Now it's the bottom of the two bolts that has snapped so depending on what angle you are looking at keep that in mind.

Now, I have bought this to replace the broken bolt:



Right, so I am going to put a nut on the broken bolt, then tap it into the bellhousing so the nut will stop it going all the way in, then putting some string inside the bell housing through the push rod hole and round the head of the bolt while it's inside the bell housing. then slowly draw it out through the push rod hole and basically do the same but in reverse order to refit , then do the trick with washers that Brian suggested.

It's going to be a total nightmare as the push rod hole is tiny and I can only get my car a few inches off the ground, I did buy some ramps, but sadly my car will not go up them even with the front splitter removed so I am relying on the axle stands (which I hate.....lol).

Just thought I would run this plan past you guys as I will be attempting it tomorrow night (as long as it's not raining).

Also, while I have your attention can I ask how on earth I go about removing the pipe from the slave cylinder?, it's pretty rusted in so I have coated it in WD-40 and tie wrapped it to the underside of the car till I know for sure, no more snapping things for me.

Can I just say that so far if the first bolt had not snapped this would have been a fairly simply job, so if anyone is reading this then don't be put off, it's just sods law so far. Fingers crossed, if anyone has any tips/advice please feel free to offer it, anything to make it go a little smoother.

Once this is done I have to actually do the damn master cylinder (which is meant to be the hard one.....OH GOD).

Red Devil

[DanThe]

Talk about keyhole surgery

Wire coathangers will come in handy I reckon, and needle nose pliers with 90° on the end.

In the past I have drilled large holes in the underside of bell housings to get objects out (25-30mm)

[Brianmoooore]

In the past I have drilled large holes in the underside of bell housings to get objects out (25-30mm)

Might well end up like this! Can't really see it'll do any harm.

[Chris-W]

As Dan says, a nice pair of 90° pliers will be needed. Still not easy - I'd forgotten how small the hole is!!

Is there any thread left of the broken stud?

[Brianmoooore]

How about drilling as small hole into the ends of both the old and new bolts and screwing in a small self tapping screw to attach string to? Or even aralditing the string in?

[reddevil]

There is enough for a quarter turn on the snapped stud, so not enough really for me to not hold my breath when I attempt it....lol, had considered a tie wrap on the head, but it's too small to tighten it I think. What really makes it tricky is that fact that it's such a small hole and the fact that I cannot get the car very high off the ground, meaning it' going to be one handed and my head on the floor since I cannot get my eyes anywhere near because of the floor of the car, going to be a pig of a job......

[reddevil]

Hi Guys, bit of an update, very little to update I'm afraid since not much has progressed in the past few days. I managed to get the nut on the bolt and knock it into the bell housing a little, enough for me to be able to feel it with my finger tip. Inside the push rod hole is whatever is pushed in by the slave cylinder, a pressure pad I guess is the best way to describe it, sadly it's really in the way of anything I can do, is there any way to move it?, tried pressing it in with something blunt but it would not budge, am I wasting my time?.

The corner of the pressure pad (which feels round) it just obstructing the bolt head, if I smacked it I could get it out, but only to fall into the bell housing, not much hope of getting some string round the head of the bolt.

Just inside the hole is this:


Any more ideas? as I have tried everything I can think of. Shall I just admit defeat and pay someone to tow the car away and do it?.

My last thought was to wrap some very fine fuse wire round the remainder of the thread and then a layer of araldite on top, couldn't be much as it still has to fit through the hole, but there's a VERY good chance that this will not hold and then the bolt will fall into the bell housing so not sure to try it or not?, if it does fall through am I right in thinking that it will then be in my gears and will ruin the car? with no option of getting it out other than removing the gearbox?

If it does come to it how long will it take someone to remove the gearbox? and guessing that it's not a mobile job so guessing I will have to get my car to them?.

Is there anyone close to Teesside who can help me out on this one because I really am lost.

Any more thoughts?

Cheers

[Chris-W]

If it comes to it, the gearbox doesn't need to be completely removed, just moved back a bit to allow the sheared stud to drop out.

I'd love to help you with it, but you're just too far away!!!

[john325tewerin]

Red.
I'd come and give u a hand but mine is up on ramps too. Doing a gearbox conversion. If you're still no further on when I'm done i might be able to call round when I'm passing your way.
Other than that, have you not got a friendly neighbour who likes tinkering with cars to come give you a hand for the price of a pint. Don't go to the expense of towing it to a garage - no worth it m8 - unless you're made of money. If you get really really stuck then i'd try a mobile mechanic and get a price first. Can't see it being very much to basically remove a busted bolt. On the other hand if the exhaust and prop need to dropped to get the gearbox pulled back then obviously it's more moola!!!

[reddevil]

Sadly Mate I am the only person I know that tinkers with cars and as you can see, I am far from experienced, afraid all of my mates drive new cars so plastic engines and to the main dealers for a service.

Thanks for the offer Chris, fancy moving to Teesside?, all the drugs and young single mothers you can handle....lol.

John, do you know anyone local, sadly I'm not made of money which is why I drive an old car.....lol.

Cheers

Red Devil

[john325tewerin]

Whereabouts in Stockton are you? (PM me if u don't want to publicise it)

[reddevil]

lol, Sure these guys can be trusted. Low Hartburn, near the Eaglescliffe pub or British Visqueen (most people know one or the other).

[reddevil]

No one?

[Brianmoooore]

No one what?

[Chris-W]

Near to him who could physically help him.

[Brianmoooore]

Can't answer that one!

[reddevil]

Near to him who could physically help him.

Yeah, I need a local with more than a set of spanners.....lol

[reddevil]

Just spoken to a mobile mechanic who said that he thought the gearbox would have to be removed, gave me a quote of £120 to get it out and replace the bolt, then I would still have to change the master and slave cylinder myself, does this sound about right to anyone? or should I continue looking?

[Globulator]

Little magnets are your friend - ebay sometimes has very strong ones quite cheap.
A magnet on a string/stick/solid wire would enable you to get the bolt.
You may lose the magnet inside however.

Otherwise drilling a hole at the low point in the bellhousing about 2mm wider than the bolt head would work with a little solid wire to poke about with.

I'm not entirely sure how you are going to get the new bolt IN however, although that is less of an issue if you have an easy way to get failed attempts back out again.

The only other option I can see is to either remove the fan and try to slide the engine forward 2" or slide the gearbox back, or work out a way of (pins allowing) lowering them both a little so a gap opens up at the bottom for you to slick your hand through.

[reddevil]

YAY, got it fixed. Found a local mechanic who took the car away, replaced the bolt and while he was there fitted the new slave cylinder AND master cylinder, all for £110 (including the tow)......WELL PLEASED.

Thanks for all the tips guys, the mechanic DID try removing the bolt through the hole but in the end gave up, even on a lift the hole was just too tight so he resorted to pushing the gearbox back and pulling it out that way.

Thanks again fellas,

Red Devil

[wildeian]

Brianmoooore wrote:

Never new that!!

[reddevil]

lol, I know, someone finally caught Brian out and it was on my post.....lol

Even the all seeing Oracle can learn a thing or two I guess..........

(No offence meant by the way Brian)

Red Devil