[SOLVED] Airconditioning not working anymore

[Kalimsnor]

Hi. My air conditioning used to work, but a friend accidentally released a lot of the refrigerant (thinking it was to bleed something else) so now it basically does nothing. What I'm reading on the wiki is that the refrigerant is illegal in the EU now, so I have to convert it. How can I check if this conversion is already done by the previous owner of this car?

Since its introduction, the original refrigerant has been made illegal for environmental reasons in the EU and many other states. A conversion kit to a more modern coolant is available from BMW.

[flybynite]

R12 is hard to come by these days. It has to be R134a which is less efficient but good enough for the UK

If you look again at the wiki you will see the receiver/drier only has 1 pressure switch for R134a, and 2 switches for R12 that is your best bet other than that it is part number on the receiver/drier.

They may have changed the condenser to a parallel flow on e which will be thinner aluminium-looking as opposed to the old heavy-looking Hella-Behr condenser but many leave the old condenser in.

The conversion kit is NLA from BMW but you can get bits separately easy enough

[HJ1981]

Look for a blue or green conversion sticker in the engine bay, if not look at the low and high pressure valves, if they are threaded it is R12, if they are press on (quick release) it is R134a.

Converting to R134a correctly requires all components to be removed, flushed out to remove old R12 oil (it is incompatible with R134a oil), a parallel flow condenser (basically the only makers of the tube and fin design condensers are Hella, Mahle and BMW), more efficient aux fan and all new o-rings since the R134a oil and freon are lighter/thinner than r12 and will cause a leak down the road.

Some people got away with just flushing the system, replacing the oil and adding R134a with a new dryer. I can not speak for them, my OE condenser had a pinhole leak on one of the tubes and i upgraded to parallel flow and waiting for a SPAL fan to arrive to do this myself.

One last thing, you need to check which compressor you have, there are 4 Bosch models that are compatible with r134a, if you have the Seiko Seiki or Delphin or a compatible Bosch unit, you would require the correct oil (it would be PAG 46 or PAG 100).

[flybynite]

One last thing, you need to check which compressor you have, there are 4 Bosch models that are compatible with r134a, if you have the Seiko Seiki or Delphin or a compatible Bosch unit, you would require the correct oil (it would be PAG 46 or PAG 100).

One of mine has the original BEHR compressor which given the age of the car I am guessing will not be R134a compatible without some work

[Kalimsnor]

I'll go check it out next time I work on her and report back, thanks guys!

[HJ1981]

My apologies, i meant to say that there are 4 specific Bosch compressors that are NOT compatible with r134a conversion.

[HJ1981]

One last thing, you need to check which compressor you have, there are 4 Bosch models that are compatible with r134a, if you have the Seiko Seiki or Delphin or a compatible Bosch unit, you would require the correct oil (it would be PAG 46 or PAG 100).

One of mine has the original BEHR compressor which given the age of the car I am guessing will not be R134a compatible without some work

There are two variations of the BEHR compressor, it is also known as BEHR/Bosch. One is a rotary compressor the other is Oscillating. According to the oil chart they are both R134a compatible as long as the part numbers do not match the list above.

If you still have the OE sticker on the compressor, it would indicate the original oil used. If you have the ISO 100 oil indicated, you require PAG 100 oil for R134a, if you have ND8 oil indicated then you require PAG 46 oil. Both have a total system capacity of 5.7 ounces, remember that is SYSTEM capacity, not just the compressor. The receiver/dryer, condenser, evaporator, lines and compressor need to have oil.

If my memory serves me, it is 0.35 ounces in the dryer/receiver, 1 ounce in the evaporator, 1 ounce in the condenser and all the hoses (together) take 0.35 ounces, the rest goes into the compressor. These numbers are just off the top of my head BTW and not to be taken 100% accurately. But you get the idea, everything gets lubricated except the expansion valve.

[Bally325]

Where about are you I know a really good air con guy based in Slough good pricing won’t rip you off

[HJ1981]

For the record, this is the official BMW 640596 retrofit instructions for E23, E24, E28 and E30 models for the R12 to R134a conversion.

If you take the car to a specialist, at least show this to him/her to be sure that the compressor is compatible (at least), this is also useful for anyone doing the conversion themselves.

http://www.exx.se/techinfo/docs/r134a_retrofit.pdf

[Kalimsnor]

I couldn't find any stickers and not sure if the pressure valves are converted. Their inside is threaded. Here's a picture of both nipples:

Is it not possible to just get R12 at this point, or is it advicable to not do that?

Where about are you I know a really good air con guy based in Slough good pricing won’t rip you off

Thanks but I'm not from UK!

[HJ1981]

I couldn't find any stickers and not sure if the pressure valves are converted. Their inside is threaded. Here's a picture of both nipples:

Is it not possible to just get R12 at this point, or is it advicable to not do that?

Where about are you I know a really good air con guy based in Slough good pricing won’t rip you off

Thanks but I'm not from UK!

If you can find someone yes, stay with R12. I was told to leave Germany, go to Cez, Lithuania or Poland to have R12 refilled.....too much of a hassle and besides condenser was shot and R134a maybe a pain at first, but anyone can service it, it is a good investment/retrofit IMO.

There is also that r222 thing, basically propane, acts the same as r12, but as propane goes i would not have that stuff in my car.

PS: That is the R134a adapter!

[Kalimsnor]

I couldn't find any stickers and not sure if the pressure valves are converted. Their inside is threaded. Here's a picture of both nipples:

Is it not possible to just get R12 at this point, or is it advicable to not do that?

Where about are you I know a really good air con guy based in Slough good pricing won’t rip you off

Thanks but I'm not from UK!

If you can find someone yes, stay with R12. I was told to leave Germany, go to Cez, Lithuania or Poland to have R12 refilled.....too much of a hassle and besides condenser was shot and R134a maybe a pain at first, but anyone can service it, it is a good investment/retrofit IMO.

There is also that r222 thing, basically propane, acts the same as r12, but as propane goes i would not have that stuff in my car.

PS: That is the R134a adapter!

I've looked at the Wiki again and it looks like you're right, the system is already converted to R134!

https://www.e30zone.net/e30wiki/index.p ... R-134a_Kit

Next up: getting some R134 to re-fill the system. Awesome. Thanks guys!

[Kalimsnor]

Re-filling was not enough, sadly. The airconditioning motor/pump won't turn on, feels like it's seized up when you turn it by hand.

[HJ1981]

Re-filling was not enough, sadly. The airconditioning motor/pump won't turn on, feels like it's seized up when you turn it by hand.

Sad to hear that, converting to R134a requires the system to be properly drained of old R12 oil and R134a specific compressor oil to be fitted (on the E30 it would be PAG 46 or PAG 100, depending on what brand compressor is installed).

Simply installing adapters, new dryer and filling the system is not enough, most likely the oil was not replaced or got mixed with R134a oil.

Would you get a new compressor? or look for a used one?

[Kalimsnor]

Re-filling was not enough, sadly. The airconditioning motor/pump won't turn on, feels like it's seized up when you turn it by hand.

Sad to hear that, converting to R134a requires the system to be properly drained of old R12 oil and R134a specific compressor oil to be fitted (on the E30 it would be PAG 46 or PAG 100, depending on what brand compressor is installed).

Simply installing adapters, new dryer and filling the system is not enough, most likely the oil was not replaced or got mixed with R134a oil.

Would you get a new compressor? or look for a used one?

Sorry for my late response!

The conversion was probably done quite a long time ago. The aircon unit always worked fine, until a friend (accidentally) drained most of the R134a gas from the system. Around that same period, the aircon unit completely stopped working. It had worked perfectly fine for a couple of months after purchasing. Now the blue aircon button in my dashboard won't light up either (it's not a fuse).

I looked up a compressor (part nr. 64528391152), they are really quite expensive. Around 600 euros over here. I'd much rather try and take it apart and see if I can free it up somehow.

Does anyone here perhaps have experience with something like this who can tell me some more about it?

[flybynite]

I looked up a compressor (part nr. 64528391152), they are really quite expensive. Around 600 euros over here. I'd much rather try and take it apart and see if I can free it up somehow.
Does anyone here perhaps have experience with something like this who can tell me some more about it?

Unless you know what you are doing I would take it to an air condition specialist, the equipment to properly service and pressure test a compressor is beyond what you are likely to have

[HJ1981]

Re-filling was not enough, sadly. The airconditioning motor/pump won't turn on, feels like it's seized up when you turn it by hand.

Sad to hear that, converting to R134a requires the system to be properly drained of old R12 oil and R134a specific compressor oil to be fitted (on the E30 it would be PAG 46 or PAG 100, depending on what brand compressor is installed).

Simply installing adapters, new dryer and filling the system is not enough, most likely the oil was not replaced or got mixed with R134a oil.

Would you get a new compressor? or look for a used one?

Sorry for my late response!

The conversion was probably done quite a long time ago. The aircon unit always worked fine, until a friend (accidentally) drained most of the R134a gas from the system. Around that same period, the aircon unit completely stopped working. It had worked perfectly fine for a couple of months after purchasing. Now the blue aircon button in my dashboard won't light up either (it's not a fuse).

I looked up a compressor (part nr. 64528391152), they are really quite expensive. Around 600 euros over here. I'd much rather try and take it apart and see if I can free it up somehow.

Does anyone here perhaps have experience with something like this who can tell me some more about it?

Look around online, brand new compressors usually go for around €300 to €350 depending on the brand and they would be suited for either OE supplied (Bosch, delphine, Sieko Sieko) mountings.

[Kalimsnor]

I'm back from a long holiday, going to work on my car again soon. Thanks for all the advice. I am afraid you guys are right, it's better to just get a new compressor.

The part number of the current compressor is 64528391152. There is one (untested) available on a second-hand site, but it has a different partnumber (64521386948). If I look at https://www.autodoc.nl/auto-onderdelen/ ... eihe/3-e30 there's only compressors from the brand ALANKO. Any advice as to what to look out for when looking for a replacement?

[Brianmoooore]

There is also that r222 thing, basically propane, acts the same as r12, but as propane goes i would not have that stuff in my car.

What's wrong with propane in the car? I carry 30 kg of the stuff in my car most of the time. 65kg when I go to Germany.

Blue light in the aircon switch merely means that the switch is on. If it's not lighting, either the lamp inside it is blown, or you have an electrical fault not closely connected to the actual aircon system.

[Kalimsnor]

Blue light in the aircon switch merely means that the switch is on. If it's not lighting, either the lamp inside it is blown, or you have an electrical fault not closely connected to the actual aircon system.

When the car was at the mechanic (a veteran when it comes to E30s) he mentioned that the aircon pump was very hard to get moving, even by hand. Even a bunch of lubricant didn't solve the issue, so he suggested I'd buy a new one.

[Brianmoooore]

The pump may or may not be knackered, but the aircon's not going to work with an electrical fault, unless it's just lamp failure.

[Kalimsnor]

The pump may or may not be knackered, but the aircon's not going to work with an electrical fault, unless it's just lamp failure.

My mechanic told me that the button won't light up because the pump is not doing its job, but if I understand correctly you think they are unrelated problems? That's definitely a good start then, before getting a replacement pump

[Brianmoooore]

No feedback from the pump to the button on any circuit I've seen.
http://www.autolib.diakom.ru/CAR/BMW/19 ... /fig05.pdf
The circuitry for the actual air con (the part that produces cold air) is in the centre at the top, and you can see that it connects to the rest of the circuitry by a single black/purple wire. There's no wire coming back for a lamp or any other kind of feedback.
With the aircon switched off, there should be zero volts on this wire, and with it switched on there should be 12 volts+ on it.
12 volts + applied to the black/grey wire to the compressor (from an external source if necessary, for a test) will close the compressor clutch and produce cooling on the pipe from the heater box if the pump is good and there is gas in the system.

[Kalimsnor]

Hi, I'm back again with some news. So I've taken out the aircon compressor and as it turns out the clutch was completely blown. I've had it repaired by an external mechanic who had some spareparts of his old E30 aircon laying around and then re-installed.

As it turns out, my interior switch (the one with the blue light that didn't work) had shorted (at least it looks like this after opening it up) around the aircon-button - so that's why the blue light didn't turn on. Now I've got a new one which was tested before it got sent out to me. There's a catch: for the *new* button, the blue light did not work but the aircon did turn on in the seller's car (I know this for a fact).

Now if I install this button, the aircon does not turn on. Everything was re-filled with new R134a. The aircon works now that it's repaired, we have tested this by directly giving power to the aircon cables.

I am a little afraid my new button shorted out; it sounded like that when I tried to turn it on the first time. I'm afraid of opening up the button because the previous one did not want to go back together. Is there a way to determine if it's shorting?

[Brianmoooore]

Test the black/purple wire as in my last post.

[DanThe]

Have you got all the sliders over to the right?

[Kalimsnor]

Hi guys, I'm back. Did a lot more digging, sadly it's just getting more and more confusing. The new compressor works flawless when it gets electricity, we tested this by putting it directly on 12v. However whenever using the dashboard aircon button (or taking out the button and putting a wire between the connectors), it would not turn on the aircon unit. We took out the radio to see if maybe the circuitboard behind the sliders had gone bad. We finally found the 1st issue; apparently there was a connector that was not fully plugged into the back of the circuit board, so pushing it down would make the compressor turn on. When we just found this out, we tried pushing it down and turning the aircon on and off a couple of times, until suddenly the circuit board started smoking and almost caught on fire. Because of this and because this connector would only work when forcibly pushing it down, we tried taking it out and connected the wires (as a test) directly to each other and thereby bypassing the sliders altogether. Once this was done and a new (working) switch was installed, everything seemed to work. But there's 1 more catch.

The aircon would sometimes run perfectly fine for 5-10 minutes, and then suddenly blow a fuse. Right before blowing fuse #20 (30 amp), the wire that we connected (the one from behind the circuitboard) would get extremely hot. We have tried disabling the front fan in hopes that it might pull too much electricity and cause the fuse to blow, but the same issue occurss with and without this fan plugged in. I have put in a re-usable fuse now because it was getting late and frankly we're out of idea's. I drove back home (about 30 minutes). The first 10-15 minutes the aircon worked just fine and I kept my hand on the wire to check if it was getting warm again. And indeed, after a little while the wire got hot so I turned off the aircon just in case and didn't dare to turn it on since.

I'm a little afraid of burning down my car now. Anyone who has idea's where I can look next?

P.S. I'm aware of the risk when not using the sliders as a safety for the aircon. For now I want to get it to work, then replace these parts later once we find out what the culprit is.

[Kalimsnor]

Also maybe it's important to note that my voltmeter reads 13.6v usually while driving, but it goes down to a whopping 11.5v when the aircon is on. Feels like it's all taking way too much electricity somewhere. Would not surprise me, considering the ungodly amount of tinkering that's been done to the wiring of this car.

[twright]

I wonder if the fan that blows air out the vents is drawing too much current.

Instead of running the A/C, can you run the vent fan with the heater on? If you do, do you still blow fuses?

[Kalimsnor]

I wonder if the fan that blows air out the vents is drawing too much current.

Instead of running the A/C, can you run the vent fan with the heater on? If you do, do you still blow fuses?

I had thought of this as well, but it's unrelated (sadly). I can run the vent fans with the heater on highest settings and it just keeps blowing no problem.

Also I don't think this would explain the wire getting warm, do you think?

[Kalimsnor]

I wonder if the fan that blows air out the vents is drawing too much current.

Instead of running the A/C, can you run the vent fan with the heater on? If you do, do you still blow fuses?

I had thought of this as well, but it's unrelated (sadly). I can run the vent fans with the heater on highest settings and it just keeps blowing no problem.

Also I don't think this would explain the wire getting warm, do you think?

[Kalimsnor]

Is it possible that it's simply my compressor that is giving too much resistance on its cycles, causing the power circuit to draw too much current and blow out the fuse?

[Kalimsnor]

Shameful bump

[Kalimsnor]

SOLVED! Turns out the 12v plug going to the airco pump was slightly corroded, causing the fuse to constantly blow because it was drawing too much current. Cleaning it up and soldering a little bit of new wire solved the issue, I *finally* have my working airconditioning again. Sadly enough right as the weather turns cold, but already looking forward to next summer!

Thanks for all the help!