M30 Turbo update thread ****RUNNING

[Toby_Unna]

*renamed, might as well use this for updates and pics...

various bits and pieces i haven't sorted yet, please feel free to add anything that might help! (and yes i know i'm a lazy sod)

i have (or have ordered) a turbo, 2nd hand higher flow injectors, ICs, complete MS kit and various sensors. haven't got a manifold to modify yet but have a fair idea what i'm doing with that.

what's left over (that i can think of)

oil feed and drain. need to piggyback the pressure sensor hole i assume? can i buy a T-piece to do this, where from, or need to get one made? will the pressure be correct?

exhaust. i'm having a single big bore pipe. i have enough bits to make up a downpipe, but i need a backbox that will fit ok with one large inlet rather than 2. any ideas?

sparkplugs. haven't looked at this other than to note i need different ones. guess it'll be trial and error, but what should i start with?

obviously want a dump valve! what should I buy, i have no idea.

where can i get a variable TPS and a normal narrowband O2 sensor?

sorry if some of this has been covered before. i guess i'll have to add to this list, but that'll do for now!

[billgatese30]

Toby...your a nutter.....i love it.

i must have a ride on your car dude, both before and after the turbo.....purely for scientifical reasons i assure you.

good luck dude, i can't help you out on the above, but i am sitting here smiling at the thought.

Cheers

Chris

[Kedge]

Are you not going to use the volvo turbo then?

[Ant]

roby I have used a Mustang TPS on mine, modded to fit the D drive we have

an e36 proper TPS would be the way forward, you'll need the connector though dude !!

taking the oil from the pressure switch take off is perfect, use a small bore aeroquip hose and the flow/pressure will be fine, mine flows almost 1/2 litre a second @ idle, plenty of volume and just right for the turbo, casnt remember the thread size or pitch but again I think the info is in the update thread dude, I think Alex posted it most recently

use the landy oil return pipe, I think the numbers are still in here somewhere dude.

for your IC, I know you planned to run them in tandem, I'd suggest running them im series, yes larger pressure drop but two stage cooling would more than make up for the 1 psi loss accross the pair

for the NB 02, any unviersal fit one will suffice, just make sure and get the stoich setting from the paperwork and input that into the Ms code, I have plenty of used but good ones if you wanna freeby dude.

As for the dump valve, a bailey piston type should be fine, depends how sensitive and how loud you want it to be, the double piston type would be best as the MAP sensor will never see spikes from atmospheric pressure that way , I have issues with mine leaking on low boost, only seals after 5 psi, causes a few issues I can tell you.

HTH

[Turbo-Brown]

Gotta disagree with you on the IC setup Ant

Running the ICs in parallel will cool the air just as well as it only needs to travel half as fast through the cores meaning it spends twice as long being cooled. Also, the friction being less will put less heat back into the air than would be the case running in series.

[Ant]

agreed the tandem setup has less losses, but with the M30 occupying so much of the engine bay, and the small IC being one in each brake duct well I feel the series setup may solve a few logistical issues for Toby along the way.

at the end of the day only toby can decide whats best for his, all our "soloutions" have compromises, its finding the balance thats the key.

I'm so chuffed with this FI section, its worked out to be such a source of good info, long may we all help each other out I say.

[Turbo-Brown]

Certainly easier to run them in series!

Guess it wouldn't be too hard to switch between the two either.

Did you get your ali welding sorted in the end Toby?

[Andy335Touring]

For your oil T-peice have a look on here ?

http://www.thinkauto.com/

[Toby_Unna]

good info guys, thanks

have someone lined up to do the welding on the cheap Alex, i did try with the mig welder but it just got angry and hot and ruined about 10 copper tips

have a 730i manifold now, so just playing around to see what's going to be the best configuration. i take it it's pretty important to have equal length runs from each 3-1 manifold to the turbo? or not?

tbh i'd still consider using the big volvo IC, but i don't think it will go in the front mask with my electric fan.

and yes Ant the FI section is brilliant

[Turbo-Brown]

Ideally you'd have the runners equal, but don't worry about it!

If it fits, it's fine

What's most important is getting the gas to the turbo whilst it's travelling fast and as such is still good and hot

[Toby_Unna]

next idiot question

where put O2 sensor, before or after turbo?

bought a load of exhaust downpipe bits from the breaker today, including a few mondeo downpipes which have integral O2 sensor mounts. so hopefully i have enough bends and straights to make my manifold, just need a flange now

apparently my megasquirt came today but i wasn't in!

also solved the IC welding issue, luckily rover are so unorganised that every car seems to have a slightly different IC design, so i found one with the stubs in different places

M535i is fixed and taxed and insured as of 2 days ago as my daily transport, so no going back now!!

[Andy335Touring]

Nice progress mate

YHM

[Toby_Unna]

got it mate

3.64 LSD up for sale

[Jon_Bmw]

next idiot question

where put O2 sensor, before or after turbo?

bought a load of exhaust downpipe bits from the breaker today, including a few mondeo downpipes which have integral O2 sensor mounts. so hopefully i have enough bends and straights to make my manifold, just need a flange now

apparently my megasquirt came today but i wasn't in!

also solved the IC welding issue, luckily rover are so unorganised that every car seems to have a slightly different IC design, so i found one with the stubs in different places

M535i is fixed and taxed and insured as of 2 days ago as my daily transport, so no going back now!!

Definatly in the downpipe Toby, don't think it would be possible to put it before the turbo come to think of it. If you end up welding a new o2 sensor bung in, put something that fits in the thread-like a spark plug(but not your o2 sensor), then weld. If you don't the bung warps and the sensor is a bugger to get in.

That seems pretty quick turn around time on your megasquirt, well done dude.

Edit:spastic spelling

[Toby_Unna]

Ԛ£36 duty and Ԛ£20 handling charges from customs, that hurt a bit!

[Jon_Bmw]

Bastards the lot of them. At least you've got it , what kit did you go for Toby, self assembly? and what version.

[shelle_smokeahama]

long time no hear i lost my mobile boy!!!!

mate ya goin all out on this 1 hey.

got mine all done, shit its torqueeeeeeee!!!!

giz a bell can catch up

[Toby_Unna]

hey karl. when u say u got it done... is the 3.5 rebuilt and nitrous, or forced induction

glad it ok anyway. mine wasn't quick enough but it will be soon. will give u a call.

[Toby_Unna]

Jon, I have MS1 build-yourself version 3 with a stim kit, loom and a couple of sensors.

also my 30lb injectors arrived today, with more customs charges

i take it you still pay import VAT on second hand stuff? Ԛ£18 on $130, not too bad i guess...

[Toby_Unna]

Been tacking together a trial manifold today, any opinions welcome! especially to tell me if i'm doing it all wrong

quite pleased so far, it's not far off equal length. no turbo yet, so i can't do a lot more until i have a flange to work with

[Jon_Bmw]

Hey is starting to take shape already and so quickly. From the photos it looks marginally to close to the wheelhouse but i can't be sure from just the pictures. Do you know what turbo you're going to get yet then?

It looks nice a low down in the engine bay so bonnet clearance shouldn't be an issue. Something you may want to do at a future date when you have your turbo is make some brackets to take some of the weight of the tubular sections of you manifolds. But i'm sure you'd already thought of that. In my eyes a very good step in the right direction

[will325is]

Toby 16-20" from turbine is about right for O2 sensor I think.

Why didnt you get a flange and make an adapter instead of just welding straight on to the cast manifold?

Make sure you get that welded up by someone with a furnace for good pre/post heating and knows their cast welding, dont want it to crack once youve got it all together. Casting like that are very easy to stress and then they crack with vibrations and expansions.

[will325is]

Ԛ£36 duty and Ԛ£20 handling charges from customs, that hurt a bit!

Only ordered from US before and had this problem does anyone know if you have this charge buying stuff from europe?

[Toby_Unna]

guess there might not be charges buying within the EU. but remember that doesn't include places like switzerland.

No room to make an adaptor. the manifolds have to point up because they're very close to the steering column even with normal downpipes. and unless I cut them down there will be no spark plug access for at least one cylinder, and it will get its HT lead burned due to it pushing against the piping.

Cheers for the tip, I know welding cast iron is tricky and likely to crack if not done properly. However the original E34 manifold design has these cast sections welded to tubular pipe before the flange, so it can be done one way or the other

[will325is]

No room to make an adaptor. the manifolds have to point up because they're very close to the steering column even with normal downpipes. and unless I cut them down there will be no spark plug access for at least one cylinder, and it will get its HT lead burned due to it pushing against the piping.

Yeah forgot how close it was.

Cheers for the tip, I know welding cast iron is tricky and likely to crack if not done properly. However the original E34 manifold design has these cast sections welded to tubular pipe before the flange, so it can be done one way or the other

.

Yeah it should be ok even just preheated well with gas and cooled down in some sand, the cast is going to be pretty good quality low carbon stuff and its fairly thick shouldnt be a problem was just warning you incase you welded it up from cold with ARC/MIG and cooled it down with water. I remember once had this guy bring a old cast iron tractor steering wheel to weld up I preheated whole thing for ages welded it with nickel alloy rods and post heated and still cracked but that was only about 5mm thick stuff and crap quality, good luck with it.

[Batch]

I dunno if this refers exactly to the turbo thing, but isn't it a good idea to get 2 stock injectors per cilinder instead of buying bigger injectors? If ECU is replaced with MS then I think it should work. The second injectors should be placed rite in the beginning of the manifold, so when idle only the stock injectors work, when revving up then the second injectors start working. I hope you understand my idea.

[Turbo-Brown]

My only concern with twin injector setups is that if an injector fails and there's only one, they cylinder stops firing. However, if there are two and one fails, the cylinder runs lean and the piston melts, especially as the second injectors only work at higher load

[Batch]

My only concern with twin injector setups is that if an injector fails and there's only one, they cylinder stops firing. However, if there are two and one fails, the cylinder runs lean and the piston melts, especially as the second injectors only work at higher load

hmm, true true. I was planning of 2 injectors per cilinder for N/A setup - planning to get some extra power from my m30 when installed.
But is it common for injectors to stop working? I think only if probs with wiring?

[Toby_Unna]

Well i have some 30lb injectors which should be fine for a start. the stock 19lb m30 ones are good for 260bhp ish. why do i need more injectors?

had a go at a downpipe today. all a bit academic because i still don't have the real turbo and am working with my old volvo T3. However it's no bad thing to have a go anyway, hopefully i will make some mistakes that can be rectified when i build it for real!
again, comments would be useful. the pipe fits nicely wiith good clearance everywhere but is a bit of a sod to wiggle into place

[kam-325i]

I would personally move the turbo closer to the engine, to close the body work. If you are going to support the turbo when finished, remeber to support from the engine and not the bodywork.

[Toby_Unna]

all a bit academic because i still don't have the real turbo and am working with my old volvo T3. However it's no bad thing to have a go anyway, hopefully i will make some mistakes that can be rectified when i build it for real!

it isn't built properly yet, there's no flange on the manifold and the turbo and pipe is sitting lower than it will when finished. and the real turbo doesn't have a wastegate actuator there
don't think supporting from the bodywork would be a good idea

[Batch]

Some questions: isn't the turbo on m106 engined e23 745 supported on the bodywork?
And what have you done to the engine itself - bottom end, head? What is the compression?
Looking 4ward to building a 335Ti when 335i is finished.

[gareth]

i'm watching intently here as i may well do this too at some point... though i'm more likely to supercharge it with a jag or merc blower! ;)

[Jon_Bmw]

Jesus Toby don't you suffer from Frostbite or something, you always seem to be working on the new zone beast. A quick question, i know its only a test downpipe etc but what diameter is it, i would have have thought you'll need about 3 inch or more on a 3.5 to avoid any back pressure that leads to detonation.

What turbo are you going for or is it all to be revealed at a later date?

[Toby_Unna]

been wondering about the downpipe. need someone to tell me what to use really, suspected using too small tube might lead to problems. 3" seems pretty big? what i've used here is the same diameter as the outlet on the volvo turbo, about 2.25"

what turbo to be used will be bloody revealed when the ebay seller bothers to send it

nah. a cheap american T3/T4, brand new for about Ԛ£150 (the seller presumably ordered it from the USA then changed his mind)

going to have to make a trip to birmingham to see him if it isn't here in a week, i have his address

and yes i have frostbite, wish i had a bloody garage