E30 M3 vs. 190E 2.5-16

[rh306]

Comparison test in the new Classic & Sportscar, here's a taster:

"Before you decide that this is going to be a 'we're all winners' cop-out, let's get one thing straight: the BMW wins. It even wins when you take into account that the M3 you see here is on sale at 16,000, double the price of this particular Mercedes. The Munich baby is a gem of a car: exciting, inspiring, brilliantly engineered and even a good investment. Because the E30 M3 is among the fastest appreciating 'youngtimer' classics on the market while the 190, despite its comparable spec, continues to be overlooked."



There's also a price watch column on the M3 and a review of this new dealership:

http://www.4starclassics.com/cars/

[Ollie_bwoii]

Haven't got my copy yet.

[rh306]

Haven't got my copy yet.

I was super cheap, subscribed, then flogged the freebie Auto Glym kit on ebay to pay for it

[Bob_S]

been there done that

[Rich_W]

£16K for that black one?

The scuttle panel is original and stamped. The windscreen has very recently been replaced by us which revealed some light corrosion, this has been treated and the scuttle painted.

Hmmm. Problem with the Scuttle is by the time you can see "light corrosion" it's potentially bad already. and I'd be amazed if their treatment is a full cut out and replace job. As for stamped. They are ALL stamped. So not sure what the point of that comment is. The thing that always gripes me is when sellers just list the equipment the car came with as if it's something unusual. They all had those discs, they all had LSD and a boot spoiler! Or they list the homolgation bollocks again. No one buys a m3 these days without at least a nod to the history of them.

It's probably a good car. But I'm not sure it's £16K worth. nearer 12-13. As it's not got leather and has a "6 button computer which hasn't been run". Whatever the feck that means!

[Ollie_bwoii]

Haven't got my copy yet.

I was super cheap, subscribed, then flogged the freebie Auto Glym kit on ebay to pay for it

Ah I get it hand me down from my grandad.

[harry_p]

all the best m3s have the 6 button obc

[m0gsia]

I love that garage!

[N00b]

Sounds like a really good argument to make you buy a Merc as a future investment to me.

[cragles]

M5 at that place looks like it has kerbed wheels when it states "non kerbed wheels"!!!

[weed1]

£16K for that black one?

The scuttle panel is original and stamped. The windscreen has very recently been replaced by us which revealed some light corrosion, this has been treated and the scuttle painted.

Hmmm. Problem with the Scuttle is by the time you can see "light corrosion" it's potentially bad already. and I'd be amazed if their treatment is a full cut out and replace job. As for stamped. They are ALL stamped. So not sure what the point of that comment is. The thing that always gripes me is when sellers just list the equipment the car came with as if it's something unusual. They all had those discs, they all had LSD and a boot spoiler! Or they list the homolgation bollocks again. No one buys a m3 these days without at least a nod to the history of them.

It's probably a good car. But I'm not sure it's £16K worth. nearer 12-13. As it's not got leather and has a "6 button computer which hasn't been run". Whatever the feck that means!

I think what they means is that the VIN# of the car is stamped on the original or the replacement scuttle, as opposed to a simple replacement or patch.

m

[Rich_W]

Well yes, but who would pay that amount of money for a M3 without a VIN number on the scuttle?

[m0gsia]

This is bullshit though both cars are great in there own right.

[m0gsia]

This is bullshit though both cars are great in there own right.

[harry_p]

How is it bullshit? It's the opinion of whoever wrote the article. Just because you don't share the same opinion doesn't make it 'bullshit'

[m0gsia]

How is it bullshit? It's the opinion of whoever wrote the article. Just because you don't share the same opinion doesn't make it 'bullshit'

Sorry I suppose it is I was a bit stressed when I wrote that but I don't think that you can say one is better than other they are both masterpieces that deserve to be treated with respect.

[airborne_7]

i had a mercedes 190e cosworth 2.3 16v version great car, however im surprised the m3 is getting compared to the 190e theres a massive price difference between the both, unfortunatly i havent drove the m3 but i have the 325 sport and i have to say even the 325 was a much better experience to be in the merc both sound and power, the merc had beta brakes.
They should compare the 325 sport to the 190e not the m3, the m3 is a class miles up the ladder to the merc in my opinion

[ross_jsy]

Because the merc raced with the m3?

[Dezzy]

190 merc = 4 pot
325 BMW = 6 pot

not really a comparison between to two

The 190 and the M3 were only made in 4 pot's for touring car racing and as said above they raced each other. There in lies the comparison.

[airborne_7]

oh ok some of us are new to the game

[Security2U]

Here is a pic of my 1988 2.3 16v.

I love it to bits and will never sell it either.

[airborne_7]

gorgious mate, do you suffer from lumpy tick over?

[Security2U]

These car be very temperamental when it comes to starting up,some times they mite not start for ages and ages but luckly iv had no problems.

As for the lumpy tick over its settles down after maybe 5 to 10seconds from the time you start it.

[Rodderz]

What have you got going on in your photo?

[Security2U]

It has a new 60-40 H&R suspension kit fitted plus other bits and bobs aswel brake discs and so on.

So its the tracking that is geting done in that photo,a very fancy piece of kit i mite add aswel.

[Security2U]

Here is another pic.

[Jhonno]

Well yes, but who would pay that amount of money for a M3 without a VIN number on the scuttle?

Have you seen the mess BMW make of them when stamping them as a replacement?!

[Rich_W]

I've heard that.

When I had the scuttle repaired on mine. I said to the guy, if you have to get a new panel. I want you to cut out the stamped part and then blend it into the new panel!

Luckily, didn't need that much work.

[Black_Potato]

Looks like some of the story is missing here...

Wasnt there 4 versions of the e190 cosworth, the 2 standard versions discussed here that run on a single throttle body and the 2 evo versions that run on 4x DTHTB like the M3. I'd say those later 2 are the better comparison, at least from a true performance comparision.

Problem is they are as rare as hens teeth and twice as expensive, or so I am led to believe.

[ross_jsy]

What was that one the bonkers fellow bought with the big wing etc etc?

Very cool looking car.

[Rich_W]

Bonkers was the Evo2. You think Sport Evo M3's are pricey!

[harry_p]

Looks like some of the story is missing here...

Wasnt there 4 versions of the e190 cosworth, the 2 standard versions discussed here that run on a single throttle body and the 2 evo versions that run on 4x DTHTB like the M3. I'd say those later 2 are the better comparison, at least from a true performance comparision.

Problem is they are as rare as hens teeth and twice as expensive, or so I am led to believe.

nope, all merc 190 16vs had individual throttlebodies.

There was the 2.3-16 with a cosworth developed engine, which late changed to a 2.5-16 with a merc evolution of the cosworth lump, then the evo1 which was a modified 2.5 with slightly more power, slightly wider arches and slightly bigger rear wing. Then there was the evo2 based on the evo1 but with yet more power even wider arches, a rear window spoiler and a huuuuge rear wing!

They're actually very similar in character and to drive to the e30 m3, they even shared the same dogleg getrag gearbox. The merc is more practical and more understated, personally the m3s looks make it win every single time in my eyes.

Also, a lot of the mercs were autos, which seems totally at odds with a highly strung 4pot motorsport derived engine.

[Low_E30]

Also, a lot of the mercs were autos, which seems totally at odds with a highly strung 4pot motorsport derived engine.

I think you will find the Auto box is less common in 190E 16v guise..... Getrag manuals are more common & more desirable & thus the Auto ones do command less money.

You are right though that the autobox totally wastes the high revving 4 pot's character...

I would say the Merc Cossie is probably the only exception to the rule that Mercs should be Auto's.

[Security2U]

I know a fella up the road that has a 2.5 16v auto its pretty crap driving it in (D) but is not to bad when you have (2) selected you can let it rev all the way in to the redline then knock it up in to (3) then up in to (D).

Gives you a little bit more control over the gear changes on a auto.

[Ollie_bwoii]

Got my copy the other day, it's a good read.

I never realised how much more expensive the Valver was over the M3 when it was new.