Engine rebuilt costs?

[daimlerman]

When you run an old car you really have two choices.
Earn a big paypacket to let an expert do the maintainance and enjoy driving the thing.
OR
Do the work yourself and call it your hobby.
Now most of us find a compromise between those two extremes.
But you must remember that old,quality cars were expensive to buy and run when they were new,the only thing that changes as they get older is the need for more maintainance,not less!
The OP may well be better suited treating his 'pina as a hobby car and buying a modern car for day to day use.

[kieran325]

Ask yourself one question, can you afford to keep pumping money into a potential money pit ??

You're health issues will always be first and are you comfortable driving it as a daily ? I sold my cab because I was uncomfortable at 6'6", the driving position in the E30 is not the best and I end up walking like Stephen Hawkings after a long day in the seat.

Personally if it was me in your position, I would let go and sit back knowing that you once owned an Alpina, you've joined the club and had the t shirt.

[oakey]

If you enjoy owning the car then keep it and do what you want with it. You clearly love it so you'd no doubt regret selling it

I agree with the above idea of buying another car for a daily runabout as it takes alot of money and time of keeping an e30 in top condition when driving it everyday in all weathers.
I know of a nice e34 540i that would make a lovely daily

[gooner1]

Also if I want to sell it , it will be next to impossible to shift as it's been slated to the high nines now and people will be offering me next to nothing for it which again makes it even more of a bitter pill to swallow.

Dan, the above says everything to my mind.
You are clearly not enjoying the car right now, you are incapable
of doing much work on it yourself, and it,s going to cost£££££££££s to put right. You,ve owned a fairly special
car, and may do so in the future.
Time to let go mate. There are plenty of cars out there that you could be enjoying, not agonising over.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do mate.

[B7]

Can you afford to pump the kind of money it REALLY needs into it is the real question. You can carry on injecting a couple of hundred here and there but you will never make the car great like that. It will continue to go downhill faster than you can pay another couple of hundred for the next "repair".

Sound like it's got to the point Simons C2 got too. There comes a time when you HAVE to ask, am i really making any difference anymore? You then have to either:

Take it off the road and fully restore it

or

Sell it on to someone who will.

or the worse case scenario

Keep on wasting the odd ton here and there until it's scrap anyway!

[Felix79]

I did do a long post but decided not worth boring everyone to death as usual. I had some hoses replaced as I had leaks which were not helping the car. Parts were at Brackley and arrived at 3pm to Oxford and are fitted. Remember I did spend over £2000 on my cabs engine when I first got it due to it needing a new head and all the night mare parts and labour that came with it. I just don't want the car to end up being like that cab was. I have saved just under £3000 for work for next spring for the Alpina which I think is a fair amount of cash to spend, but I don't want to make dipsh1t mistakes and be taken for a ride. This is why I ask people on here is so I can get a fair idea of what is needed to be done. Yes I am student scum at the moment but I planned a head when I got the car and was recieaving a paypacket. I am determined not to be some person throwing odd tons at the car and letting it die slowly. That's what I was saving it from in the first place.

[Simon13]

I think a wise thing to do is take it to someone who really knows what they are looking at, and have them go over it with a fine tooth. Then you can lay the cards on the table, decide a plan of attack and go from there. Theres lots on here who "talk" a good E30 but few have restored properly one. My idea of restored is probably different to some though. I'd advise most people against it. I'm probably half way if that through mine and i've owned it 4 years in Feb! I only drove it for bloody 6 months put 3000 gentle miles on it as the engine was scrap. The clutch slave went a week before the tax ran out so that was it. The car then proceeded to sit in my garage until about june the next year. Whilst i mulled over what to do. 2 and half years on from that and its been a very long and massively expensive road to take for me. I didn't even really bond as such with it as i was driving a car that looked good but wasn't beneath the skin. I'm attatched to the money i've put into it to be really blunt. I'm not that into it but i've started it so i'll f**king finish it if its the last thing i do. I don't quit half way and i want to appreciate the fruits of my labour when its done. Only then if it turns into a good car and doesn't p!ss me about when its MOT'd and running will i start to like it more! If it can be half the car the pina touring has been i'll be very happy but thats a whole happy story on its own! Anyhow i've sidetracked somewhat

Yes alot on here have seen it, but no ones seen/looked driven the car to give a fair proper description imo who doesn't have your best interests at heart. Someone neutral who will tell you how it is not dress it up

[Jon_Bmw]

Can I be frank?


I am going to be, so I hope that is OK.


Basically a c2 2.5 is a run of the mill old car to anyone who is joe bloggs. Only e30 geeks and a few BMW geeks will know what it is.

It seems to me that a common theme on e30 zone is for people to get suckered into the whole community thing a bit too much. Mates all having a laugh at a meet, that is a good healthy community and good fucking fun. There comes a point that it seems you are changing/fixing up this c2 for the community, literally they are spending your money. If it wasn't for e30 zone, I suspect you would have thought, fuck it, it is a £2k car and run it into the ground or repair it on a shoestring like 90% of people who run old cars.

This is not healthy, they are spending your money so that you acheive some weird sort of elite status as the guy who spunked 10 bags on a car that is worth 3 at the end of it all.

Someone like Simon13, gets away with it, as 1) all he knows is e30s, he loves them and 2) he can spanner and do a lot of the labour intensive things. For someone who is restricted to getting someone else to do EVERYTHING, being suckered into the "fix this c2 for the community" mentality is fecking madness and will leave you broke with a car that isn't really that sort after or valued.

It is always easy to spend someone elses money.

I hope you read that in the constructive way I meant it Dan.

[Simon13]

I think you've hit the nail on the head Jon, the zone spends alot of peoples money for them including mine!

[bss325i]

Take it to Pacerpete for a full HONEST run down of what is needed.

I would but i dont have the time or space.

[Felix79]

That's what I needed to here Jon and Si.

Jon I agree with you the whole comunity thing is what I am here for and it's the whole alpina C2 thing that bit me. thing is Jon I am a nerd at the end of the day and I don't think I will go off e30's as they been imprintent on me since I was a small kid. I love the cars and the history of them which is why I seem a tad rose tinted when talkign about it. It's well known I went to Si when I was looking at getting the pina and he was very honest and because of his ( quedus? ) with pinas I decided to go for it. ( Si I mean thi sin a good way not bad )

Problem I am always facing is the fact I live in fecking Oxford and there is no proper car culture here and bar Rob no other zoners I know that live here.

Baz this is what I need , because I just don't know who to ask to give me a serious run down of what is needed.

It's hard for me to explain as the words are getting badly jumbled up today and I am finding it really hard to even make sense. I am happy to put money in not because of the status ect it's because it's really my hobbie. I may end up putting M3 money into it but I enjoy the car. I guess I am a tad estrentic ( ermmm mad is what I am trying to say but not bad mad ) and I think old car should make your blood boil one minuet and make you smile the next. ( I guess Alfa owners must be like this ) . My dad spent 11 years and god knows how much money on a Daimler VP Double 6, effectivly it was a BL posh jag but I think that has rubbed off onto me.

Anyway thank everyone for the input , I am goign to stop boring everyone with the car as I now have the answers I need to move forward. So mods pls lock or move I don't care and I will be looking forward to 2010 and hopefully some more of my bonkers money burning on the old gal

[Bluto]

Good Luck in what you have deceided.

[bss325i]

Pete is only down the M40 Dan.

[Felix79]

Pete is only down the M40 Dan.

Ah blinder.

I am going into hospital tomorrow so I will be able to work a few things out when I get back home.

[e30topless]

Take it to Pacerpete for a full HONEST run down of what is needed.

I would but i dont have the time or space.

that's good advise rest assured, Pete knows his stuff and he WILL be honest,

ok my 2 pence,

I like this car very much, so much infact I almost bought it

it is what it is end of , and thats a damn rare C2.5, just how many are left ?
restoring an E30 is bloody hard work, finding parts, curing rust issues, ect
I cheated, I started my resto with a mint shell, and I'm handy with a spanner you don't have this option I'm afraid, so this makes it all 100% harder.

ignore the cocks that slate it, they have Fook all better to do, you obviously love it, so do what you like it's your car !

IMO 4k should easily keep it going for another 20 years if spent right !

[Blitz]

So true, because of this forum my next car is going to be E30. I would really like to try a different car, but the I feel times running out to get decent E30's at reasonable prices.

[Kos]

dan,

it may be 10 year old shell, but that doesnt mean its worth saving.

any how pete (pacerpete) knows these cars inside out, and he will be totally honest with you. i doubt there many in the game as knowleldgeable as him.

i did have discusion with some one who saw your car at santa pod, we both looked over the car and were trying to see if the damage on the shell was as bad as what my M3 was like, and we recon it is as bad, but nothing for sure can be said untill its unpicked

here's some figures for you, restoring my M3 shell will cost me about £7000. thats at mates rates including a whole new front end, ingluing new wings, inner wings, fliches, front pannel rear pannel, fabrication of sills peices and jacking points and being built on a Jig, and inside out paint job.

then you have to factor in what your engine re build cost will be, then there is overhauling the brakes suspension and evey other bit that looks perished/worn/worn.

if you do it, do it one time and account £10,000 MINIMUM

as othere have stated, a couple of hundred here and there is not really productive.

there are a few of us here who have done restorations and i dont think any will disagree with the numbers i have quoted.

the couple of hundered spent here and there are best put in the bank and saving for a restoration.

i'm also inclined to agree with jon, that you have got sucked into the whole comuntity thing, and if it wasnt for the zone you would have said "fcuk it" by now and got rid of the car.

on personal POV, i do as i want to my cars because i want to, for me an no one else and not for the comunity. as harsh as that sounds its true. i recall when i was banned for 2 years i demanded that MY M3's rebuild thread was removed. if i was not allowed on this forum then non of my input be allowed in regards to the car. one or 2 mods said they'd like it to stay for the comunity which is a joke as i was banned from the so called comunty. it got burried, and i doubt i'll have much to post on the build of the car. i build for me not for the forum. you can all see it when its done which may be next year or the year after. who cares not me thats for sure
i do take an interest in friends car like simon, like demlot, barry and oguz. some of whom i have known for over 4 years !

you come across like you want people to care, you want people to be bothered, and to some extent it works but ultimately it is your car and your money.

the comunity will give you some advise and opinions but how many are qualified to tell you yes its worth saving. its only worth saving if you have the money, you have the love and have some one who is qualified to to the job

how attached can you become to a car that you have only had for just over a year ? and the end of the day its just metal (well it was at one stage) its not exactly been in the family for years on end and you have not bought it with a project/restoration in mind

you bought it to enjoy a modern classic, but you are clearly not enjoying it and its costing you money and causing you stress whch you clearly dont need in your life

[daimlerman]

I feel that the advice regarding an assessment of work needed is very good.
Ant would do this,as would Chris-W,to give you two more options,but do remember that these guys have families to feed so will require paying!But £100 here could save you £10,000...
If you really want this thread locking,drop me a PM...at the moment it is perhaps answering questions for zoners other than the OP.

[AlpineAde]

it is perhaps answering questions for zoners other than the OP.

I think this has been an interesting and very informative thread.

It's a question that faces many enthusiasts: when is enough enough? Do I stop now or bite the bullet and take the plunge into the wallet and empty it?

When I bought my car I knew what I was getting into and expected the bills. I had an idea of what I wanted and was prepared to pay to get that idea realized. The advantage of such a situation ~ and it's been mentioned above ~ is that there is no moment of "shock" or sickening realization that a decision must be made on the fate of the vehicle. I bought a very sound vehicle as a project and went with it.

It can be a different situation, though, when the perspective one has on a car changes. It can go from being a daily driver or weekender to a complete heartbreak when a load of issues come up at once. For me there have been no issues because I planned on creating them myself (ie. replacing tired bits with new, rebuilding, upgrading, etc.) but for those who initially bought a car with the idea of maintenance being the only issue and NOT restoration (rolling or otherwise), being faced with the fact that they are now at the crossroads can be daunting.

I think Kos's post quite pertinent. Throwing a hundred quid at a car here and there every year is just putting off the inevitable. Eventually it will get into such a state that it will become something of an albatross around the neck. A full restoration that is undertaken professionally will cost a huge amount. There is no getting around that. As posted above, I have spent near on 15000 pounds on mine and that does not include ANY bodywork (rust free and straight as a die, thank God!). It's getting to a stage where I am quite happy with it.

Dan, two choices I reckon: sell or lay it up and spend a couple of years doing it properly. If you really love the idea of what your car stands for and love the process of seeing things transform back to new (like I do), go for the resto! It'll cost a huge amount of money but that's not the point (as I'm sure you understand). If you find yourself stressing about the car, not enjoying it, and see only a huge pile of bills where the car is (instead of what it could potentially be) perhaps it is time to move it on and buy another Alpina again at a later date.

Just my 2 cents....

[Dezzy]

If I had 3k spare mate I wouldn't through it at a money pit.
My advice would be:
firstly move on the alpina to someone who will through enough money and time at it to make it a lovely car again.
Find yourself the cleanest shell possible with help from friendly local zoners???
Then spend the rest on 24v power.
You will get good mpg, good power and something a bit different(ish).
I know you can't do the work yourself but I can think of a zoner down that way who knows a little bit about M50/52 and soon to be alpina lumps that I would be asking if I were you.

Like I say it's only my opinion but as you can't do anything yourself and the alpina sounds like a turd that needs 10 bags throughing at it, it's not the car for you.

[Felix79]

Everyone has their opinion and they are intiltled to it. Reason why I an attached to the car is bcause it helped me get out and meet people whe I was still pretty I'll still, it's been an outlet to my frustration of effectivley being crippled and in a pain most can not even comprehend. Nerve damage is no joke and being as young as I was with a back as strong as a 50+ year old at 27 not fun.

End of the day it is my money and I am happy to spen it on this car but I wanted help in knowing what to expect. This thread has many views on costs and I think it pretty obvious who I am listening too here and they have give me answers I asked.

Finally if I wanted to change the engine it would only be an m30 and then I will sell the Alpina. If I wanted a e36 engine I would be driving an e36. I like old things and qirky things. 12 vales and 6 cylinders is what I like. Only other car I want I a Ford Puma Millelium or a FRP.

[Dezzy]

Well what more can anyone say!
Your choice of motor, your choice of car, your choice who to listen too. Good luck and enjoy......












Spunking good money after bad on a turd that helps you meet people.

[Felix79]

Indeed my 12v turd with nottingham trinkets attached too boot.

[kieran325]

Dan, I think you need to think long and hard for the future, like others have said get the car checked over and see what it requires.

I've got a sport which I've owned for 15 years, it's sentimental to me and a good one. It was in top condition to start with and all it needed was recommissioning after 6 yrs sat in the garage, I've not fettled with the engine apart from a fresh head but it runs standard, it's had new brakes & suspension and anything else that needed replacing like bushes/mounts.

After all that, I thought it needed a looking at the bodywork, nothing major, but i had it done.

So far I've spent 8k and still spending, bearing in mind, mine was in good condition to start with, just a figure to mull over.

If it makes you happy and you don't mind it draining the wallet, then go for it.

[scootlife]

Dan , work out the maths and decide from there really. Been reading through the various comments here , and one thing that concerns me is the reshell. Your right in stating that there are not many C2 2.5 but how was yours reshelled? Basically what im getting at is whats the vin number stamped into the body ? If its all stamped up as it should then future values are not too much of an issue, however if its just a reshell into a new shell and just with a vin tag attached then to many purists its not ever going to be the real deal.

Ive seen this occur many times with other cars and bikes. Mk 1 escorts being reshelled into non type 49 shells , various scooter rebuilds into new old stock frames, but without the correct numbers they will never be anything but a bitsa.

Personally i would only ever do a rebuilt or restore if the figures stack up. I have many other projects on the go, but have only kept the ones where i can at least get my money back if needing to sell. I would love to see your car fully restored and rebuilt , but on the other hand i think some of the really blunt advise is spot on and should be listened to at the same time.

Its a hard one to call, but your hearts got to be in it. With your back problems, why not consider
buying a spot on 6 series? Its the right engine, more room, and what great cars they are..

Good luck in whatever you decide fella.

[fourmotion]

Some very good points here, and despite Kos being a 'little' blunt i completely agree. When i bought my M3 i thought id bought a solid base that would last and save me money in the long run. When you factor in the labour on a repaint (which has to be done properly- that invloves all panels off, all rust removed, possibly bare metaled, and treated) and all the new panels and parts you might need it soon escalates in cost. The engine is no different. Unfortuantely its always a case while youre there you may as well do xxx. Its never ending.

Two years down the road for me and its become apparent that the previous owner was hiding bent exhaust valves, and got a number of cheap shoddy bodywork repairs that were done on the cheap. Both issues have cost me dearly, but im going to be left with the perfect M3 in my eyes and thats what its about. I do it for the love of it, never for anyone else. Jon's right in pointing out that people can get sucked in to community life, and as a consequence people start to feel that all that matters in life is the car and keeping up with the rest. This sort of has been rife in the VW scene for years. And certain people have sqaundered cash on cars that end up being worth a mere fraction of the total bill cost. All for scene recogintion rather than for themselves which is rather sad.

Dan; as others have very wisely pointed out, you've come to a crossroads;-
Get the car sorted and be prepared to let go of 10k+If the car means that much to you then you'll want it done properly and dont expect to see the money back, run it in to the ground or move on to pastures new.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[Kos]

dan,

Why are you even contemplating putting and m30 in to your car ?

It makes no sense. The man above makes a great point about matching numbers which your car with a re shell possibly doesn't have. But even So, the re shell affects its value greatly in a negative way

Also, in regards to an e24.................

I have one, its mint its unmolested original and does about a thousand miles a year. I'd never consider one or sudgest one as a daily driver. As nice as they are the goods ones need to be locked away as do the nice sports, m3's etc.

If maintaining an e30 is causing concerns for dan, the an e24 is not recomend. Especially as daily driver.

[Dezzy]

Never even twigged. If it's been re shelled it's not even an alpina. Omg mate time to move on I reckon


10 bags or even 3 just to fill it with filler and wait for it to come back is too much money to piss up the wall mate. Harsh but true IMO.

[Felix79]

Let me point something very clear out to all that are like OMG reshell not the orginal car. It had a new shell installed , not one from a donor car and was supplied direct from BMW. The car keeps it VIN on the V5 and the engine bay as a shell is classed as body parts. They kept the orginal doors and the rest of the pannels were replaced. There was about £8000 spent all together on new pannels , paint ect. Alpina / BMW / The DVLA all class the car as a 1985 BMW Alpina C2 2.5. ( well techincally a 323i with a bigger engine but this is normal for alpina's )

Kos - I prefer to have an old m30 over the M50/52 , I like the noise better and it's a nice lazy lump. I aint going to be racing and tracking a car so I would rather have a period engine. Again it's this split that is on here about preaching one or the other big lumps and to be blunt I am sick to death of people going on about throwing 24vale engines in e30's. Lee and Ravi both have m30 conversion and I think it's just a nicer way to do an engine conversion.

Now seriously I have had more than enough shit to deal with today and being blunt to people I know what needs doing now , people have said comments and seriously thread now really fking me off as I asked a simple question and I got answers that I asked for. Intresting thread or not I said already didn't want to go on any further with this as I got the info I needed to know.

[Kos]

I what I don't understand is the fact you keep banging on about how rare it is, how original it is and the think about dumping in an M30 and say its a period engine....... Well there is the originality of the car gone down the toilet. The car needs to kept original, and what can't be kept or sourced as original equipment an suitable oem or after market part fitted, like barry did with the suspension on his sport using eibach springs.
So, even if you do go M30 , you will need an early M30 engine, with early loom, from an e28. Go find an early M30 in decent running order, fit it with the right manual box and flywheel. You'll be spending over 2 bags doing that by the time you've added all the service bits etc which is money you can spend on the original engine. You don't even know for sure if there is anything wrong with it do you ?

Get the car on the rollers. See what the power is and its general state of tune.

Oh, finally Bmw suppleied shell or not, a re shell is hardly a desierable option is it ? and if its got this rotten after ten years it wasn't put together right.

[Felix79]

I just can't be bother to even reply any more as it's just baiting people who like to argue and I'm not doing it.

[Speedtouch]

Oh, finally Bmw suppleied shell or not, a re shell is hardly a desierable option is it ? and if its got this rotten after ten years it wasn't put together right.

This had me puzzled too, surely a proper BMW supplied/built shell would last a bit longer than a decade?

[Kos]

please explain the thoughts behind the M30 and re badging ?

[gaszman]

danj its your car and you decide if you were close to me i would say have mine we will do it together did mine in me shed sweet sory to here all your probs bud

[B7]

OK before anyone says doing it myself not possible , physicall , mentally and talent wise.

The engine need to be stripped down properly and rebuilt as it's now really feeling the signs of age and it's monster high milage.

Do people specalise in this type of work and how much is it. I am guessing it's going to cost a lot.

The car just feels very flat and lifeless now in the rev range ( espcally when hot ). It can't even get past 5000 rpm in 5th and is down I would say nearly 16mph of it's top speed easily.

Or should I put 2 fingers up to keeping it pure and sorce a B6 spec engine and get that put in the car instead and rebadge as a RHD B6?

Going back to your original post:

You asked a question and for an opinion. You've had several.

Could be time to lock this mods. it ain't going no where