Injectors....****Do You Want Yours Cleaned****

[asmith88]

i emailed them last week and they told me that including me sending them, them cleaning them and sending them back it should be no longer than 3 days

dissapointing, but i look forward to the results

[tomislav]

This is a very interesting thread!

Dear Mr. Injectortune, the injectors i need leaning are from an m30b35 engine, the bigger injectors to use if ya doing a 2.8 conversion.

Will these still qualify for your ten quid per injector service?

[N00b]

@ Mr. Injectortune.

Is cleaning the injectors enough, or is there anything else associated with the fuel rail/supply that you'd recommend doing at the same time?

[Injectortune]

This is a very interesting thread!

Dear Mr. Injectortune, the injectors i need leaning are from an m30b35 engine, the bigger injectors to use if ya doing a 2.8 conversion.

Will these still qualify for your ten quid per injector service?

Go on then - send me a message though my site.

James.

[Injectortune]

@ Mr. Injectortune.

Is cleaning the injectors enough, or is there anything else associated with the fuel rail/supply that you'd recommend doing at the same time?

Changing the fuel filter is worthwhile at the same time because it'll keep the injector internal filters cleaner for longer.

If you've fitted an induction kit it makes a good time to fit an adjustable fuel pressure regulator if you have not already done so. This will enable you to make the most of your induction kit.

James.

[bumhole]

Injector James, I have got an m50 engine in my e30, it's done about 135,000 miles. I was thinking it would be a good idea to get the injectors cleaned as it has got a bit of a splutter at 1000-2000 rpm and then often at 6000 rpm. It seems like a fuelling problem to me. I am running an induction kit and was thinking I would either need it mapping so it shoved more fuel in to match the amount of air? So what you are saying is that if I get an adjustable pressure reg, I can tweak more fuel in that way? Do I qualify for the tenner deal too, pretty please thanks

[Brianmoooore]

If you've fitted an induction kit it makes a good time to fit an adjustable fuel pressure regulator if you have not already done so. This will enable you to make the most of your induction kit.
James.

Oh dear! We were doing so well up to now!
The induction system on E30's was designed by engineers, not the accounting department, like on the systems from lesser manufacturers, and most 'aftermarket' induction kits actually reduce air flow, or produce strange dips in the torque curve. Rather than requiring more fuel flow, they would require less.
Even with an engine modified so that it does flow more air, and adjustable FPR is NOT the way to go. Modifications need proper adjustments to the software to increase injector pulse width when and where it's needed, not the "sledgehammer on a nut" effect of increasing fuel flow across the board, resulting in excess fueling and consequent bore wash.
There is also the small matter of aftermarket FPRs having a tendency to be incendiary devices!

[N00b]

@ Mr. Injectortune.

Is cleaning the injectors enough, or is there anything else associated with the fuel rail/supply that you'd recommend doing at the same time?

Changing the fuel filter is worthwhile at the same time because it'll keep the injector internal filters cleaner for longer.

If you've fitted an induction kit it makes a good time to fit an adjustable fuel pressure regulator if you have not already done so. This will enable you to make the most of your induction kit.

James.

Ok then matey, you've sold me. How much longer is your bargaintastic offer of £10/per injector going to run?

[bumhole]

Does my k&n count as an induction kit? The standard box wouldn't fit in so I used a k&n for convenience like most do. Is there a better way?

[Baz666]

back to injectors

i`v had nothing turn up today, but had a email from them.


Hi there and thanks for your custom and your email.
Apologies for the slight delay. We've shipped your injectors this morning (by special delivery) they should be with you on Monday I hope.
As a token of our appreciation of your patience I will refund you the £6.70 return post charge. Its the least we can do. I just hope you can be kind in your feedback for us.
They're a fine set of injectors by the way although the solvent was quite black at the end of the hour showing a lot of residue was removed. Your numbering is still just about visible although 1 hour in 80C IPA alcohol did take a lot of it off.
I hope thats ok.
Your partial refund should be back in your paypal account in a few moments.
Kind regards
James

so wont be fitting this weekend now

[Brianmoooore]

Does my k&n count as an induction kit? The standard box wouldn't fit in so I used a k&n for convenience like most do. Is there a better way?

K&N cone (one size fits all) is one of the nastier ones, and there are questions about the effect of the filter oil on lambda sensors.
What have you done to this car so that the standard box won't fit?

[Injectortune]

If you've fitted an induction kit it makes a good time to fit an adjustable fuel pressure regulator if you have not already done so. This will enable you to make the most of your induction kit.
James.

Oh dear! We were doing so well up to now!
The induction system on E30's was designed by engineers, not the accounting department, like on the systems from lesser manufacturers, and most 'aftermarket' induction kits actually reduce air flow, or produce strange dips in the torque curve. Rather than requiring more fuel flow, they would require less.
Even with an engine modified so that it does flow more air, and adjustable FPR is NOT the way to go. Modifications need proper adjustments to the software to increase injector pulse width when and where it's needed, not the "sledgehammer on a nut" effect of increasing fuel flow across the board, resulting in excess fueling and consequent bore wash.
There is also the small matter of aftermarket FPRs having a tendency to be incendiary devices!

The E30, like any well-engineered car was designed for reliability, economy and longevity with only certain models tuned for performance.

My experience of using performance air filters, induction kits and adjustable fuel pressure regulators has been a positive one - I have never had (or heard) of a regulator setting itself on fire - being a mechanical device I am inclined to think this impossible. I have built and fine tuned many engines in this way.

Induction kits really do allow the engine to suck in more air - to suggest otherwise is misleading to say the very least. This is why we use them when tuning engines for best performance. Consequently, high-flow air filters require more regular cleaning and often need to be shielded from engine heat for best performance.

Of course, more air alone will not generate extra power - extra power requires additional fuel in the correct ratio. Adjusting a regulator to give the correct amount of fuel is a straightforward job for most tuners or mechanics with a very obvious loss of performance before bore wash or a lean mixture becomes a concern, though the use of a lambda based air/fuel ration gauge is preferred.

You are also correct when you suggest that a correctly mapped ECU is ideal for tuning - in addition to fuelling it gives the tuner control over the ignition advance and rev limits. However, this comes at a substantial cost compared to simply adjusting the fuel pressure, which gives us mechanical control over the Motronic system.

I appreciate that you - like any other member here - have considerable experience over me regarding the E30 platform and that what is 'right' for own owner is not necessarily 'right' for everyone (this is what makes being part of an enthusiast's community so rewarding) . However, your post appears to be drawn from hearsay rather than experience - I say this as if you had ever fitted and tuned both an adjustable regulator and induction kit we would not be having this conversation.

James.

[Injectortune]

Ok then matey, you've sold me. How much longer is your bargaintastic offer of £10/per injector going to run?

At least until the end of the year.

[Brianmoooore]

The standard airbox fitted to E30s, fitted with a clean OE filter, and attached to any standard or lightly modified engine will flow all the air required by that particular engine, and cannot be significantly improved on. Much the same applies to the OE exhaust system.
I have no direct experience of adjustable FPRs, other than removing and binning the odd one, but there are members on here who have had experience of these units developing leaks

[tomislav]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tomislav wrote:
This is a very interesting thread!

Dear Mr. Injectortune, the injectors i need leaning are from an m30b35 engine, the bigger injectors to use if ya doing a 2.8 conversion.

Will these still qualify for your ten quid per injector service?


Go on then - send me a message though my site.

James.


How do i send you a post on your site? Sorry if i'm being short sighted here

[bumhole]

Fitted an m50 engine, the box off the m50 was miles too big! Does the m20 fit?

[Brianmoooore]

Six cylinder 7 series box, with the AFM mounted inside the box, is what's on mine.

[tomislav]

Hey bumhole, i can see my car in your pic! awesome.

Sorry, off topic, but bumhole, we'll be doing the ring again next summer. You going?

With your nice clean injectors? (back on topic, see what i did there! lol)

[Injectortune]

How do i send you a post on your site? Sorry if i'm being short sighted here

Click on 'Contact' in the top right of the screen.

[bumhole]

Yeah we're planning to do another trip in the summer, may incorporate my stag do in ansterdam. You swapped the engine then!!? Yes I will be going with clean injectors!

Might go with that idea then mr Moore. That would probably get round my heat shield issue?

[Injectortune]

Six cylinder 7 series box, with the AFM mounted inside the box, is what's on mine.

Does that offer a significant improvement over the standard airbox fitted to your particular engine?

/doublethink.

[Brianmoooore]

Six cylinder 7 series box, with the AFM mounted inside the box, is what's on mine.

Does that offer a significant improvement over the standard airbox fitted to your particular engine?

/doublethink.

The 'signficant improvement' is that it fits under the bonnet, flows sufficient air for a M50/52 engine, and actually filters the air!

[bumhole]

As in previous post Ive put an m50 engine in my car, fairly common conversion for an e30. Take out the m20 whop in an m50 24 valve. Trouble is amongst other things the airbox doesn't fit. I just put a k&n cone filter on the end of The maf.
The filter sits right next to the rad and leccy fan. I've thought I may be losing performance due to warm air going in, so Id like a sheild or different way of doing it. I want as much performance I can get cos it's for trackdays.

I can't understand why k&n filters are useless, It always seemed to me fairly well known that k&ns were the best filters on the market?

[N00b]

I can't understand why k&n filters are useless, It always seemed to me fairly well known that k&ns were the best filters on the market?

For most people that bought them, K&N's have done nothing beneficial for their cars and in many cases the cars driveability has suffered because of it.
High flow filters work if they're part of a tuning application, but too many people have it installed into their brain than simply adding something like a K&N will make things better. It doesn't.

[Baz666]

i`v never had a cone k&n filter on any of my cars and never will, i think there just a waste of money unless like N00b said it was backed up with loads of engine mods.

[Baz666]

Right they have turned up, do look cleaner than when they left my house.
the report


TEST BEFORE CLEANING
----------------------------------------------------------
Continuity test......6 ticks ?
Basic operation test......all good & strong
Full frequency test......good response, no flat spots

CLEANING
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ultrasonic bath......80'c for 1 hour
Solvent......IPA alcohol (neat)

TEST AFTER CLEAN
-----------------------------------------------------------
Full range frequency test......all good , no flat spots
Electromagnet resistance......16.5 16.2 16.9 16.3 16.7 16.9 <all good and well matched
Remarks...... A sound set of injectors.
Notes....really good set of injectors

so whats to make out of this lot then, would you say he has done his job well or what.

[Morat]

I guess the real test is handing over a set that are in really poor condition. Lets see how yours do when back on the car?

[Injectortune]

Right they have turned up, do look cleaner than when they left my house.
the report


TEST BEFORE CLEANING
----------------------------------------------------------
Continuity test......6 ticks ?
Basic operation test......all good & strong
Full frequency test......good response, no flat spots

CLEANING
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ultrasonic bath......80'c for 1 hour
Solvent......IPA alcohol (neat)

TEST AFTER CLEAN
-----------------------------------------------------------
Full range frequency test......all good , no flat spots
Electromagnet resistance......16.5 16.2 16.9 16.3 16.7 16.9 <all good and well matched
Remarks...... A sound set of injectors.
Notes....really good set of injectors

so whats to make out of this lot then, would you say he has done his job well or what.

It confirms what I had suspected about this seller - that they are not testing the injectors that they clean.

The report does not give before and after (cc/min@pressure) for the injectors, nor does it give before and after descriptions of the spray pattern. The seller is cleaning his injectors blind. Imagine your disappointment had you sent a faulty set for servicing only to have them come back being described as 'a good set of injectors'.

All they appear to have done is cleaned your injectors with an ultrasonic bath and used a multimeter to measure the resistance across the terminals. Did they fit new filters, o-rings, BMW pintle caps or spacing washers?

I too use Isopropyl Alcohol in my workshop - for flushing out brake lines and as a winter de-icer. It is highly flammable and evaporates quickly. I would certainly not want to run an electrical charge anywhere near it due to the risk of it flashing over - for this reason I think it unlikely that your injectors have been pulsed open and shut during cleaning.

Also, I would consider the impedance of the injectors to be acceptable rather than the 'good' that the seller states they are. Injectors don't normally vary more than .2 of an Ohm across a set. Anything more than one Ohm either way indicates an injector on its way out.

Here is a copy of my test report that I issue my customers with:



Any chance of scanning and uploading your test report here?

You're welcome to send them for proper cleaning, testing & servicing - just send me a message though my site.

[Baz666]

James does the offer still stand to me sending you these injectors for you to check, and also No they have not put new o`ring and caps or no indication that there are new filters fitted,

the report is very poor (handwritten)i can just about read it.

how much of a differants should there really be once i put them in the car.

[asmith88]

james how long will it take to send them out to you and have them returned? my cars my daily so wouldnt have too much time to muck around with them..

[Injectortune]

James does the offer still stand to me sending you these injectors for you to check, and also No they have not put new o`ring and caps or no indication that there are new filters fitted,

the report is very poor (handwritten)i can just about read it.

how much of a differants should there really be once i put them in the car.

Yes, the offer of checking them still stands. You are welcome to either post them to me or visit me and watch me test them - just send me a message though my site. I will replace all service parts and further clean them if necessary. You will receive a before/after test report too.

It is possible that your injectors have cleaned up to 'as new' condition - though there is no way of knowing that without testing them using the correct equipment. This is why the seller is charging £5 compared to my (usual) £12.50. Bosch and Lucas service centres charge £25 per injector - I aim to undercut this price without compromising service.

Fitting properly serviced injectors will give a noticeable improvement to both performance and economy - the greater the engine mileage the more performance restored.

James.

[Injectortune]

james how long will it take to send them out to you and have them returned? my cars my daily so wouldnt have too much time to muck around with them..

Turnaround is usually 1 working day from receipt.

That is, if you post them on a Monday and they arrive on Tuesday, I will post them back to you on Wednesday to arrive Thursday morning. Sometimes I can service and post the same day though this should not be relied upon.

Injectors are rarely in my possession for more than 24 hours.

James.

[rix313]

james how long will it take to send them out to you and have them returned? my cars my daily so wouldnt have too much time to muck around with them..

Turnaround is usually 1 working day from receipt.

That is, if you post them on a Monday and they arrive on Tuesday, I will post them back to you on Wednesday to arrive Thursday morning. Sometimes I can service and post the same day though this should not be relied upon.

Injectors are rarely in my possession for more than 24 hours.

James.

Those injectors I gave you the other day will fit his car if he needs them straight away and you still have em.

[asmith88]

[Brianmoooore]

No they have not put new o`ring and caps or no indication that there are new filters fitted,
the report is very poor (handwritten)i can just about read it.

I will replace all service parts and further clean them if necessary. You will receive a before/after test report too.

It is possible that your injectors have cleaned up to 'as new' condition - though there is no way of knowing that without testing them using the correct equipment. This is why the seller is charging £5 compared to my (usual) £12.50.
Fitting properly serviced injectors will give a noticeable improvement to both performance and economy - the greater the engine mileage the more performance restored.

This is what I suspected would be the case! £10 is cheap for a proper job - £5 is impossible!

There are hundreds; probably thousands of injectors belonging to members of this site that are in dire need of servicing - probably one of the best bhp/MPG per £ tuning investments you can make, so, providing feedback is good, this could be a profitable arrangement for all of us.