6 Branch manifold, Hartage or BTBII

[e30topless]

anyone know the performance gains on the Hartge one's ?

I do know they are a biatch to remove I will never curse again when removing a log

[steve_k]

i've just read this thread all the way through & i have to say that when ever a topic like this pop's up everyone starts slating the H/T manifold (& no i don't have one i've got a automac manifold).

thing is it's up to the person buying it to make up their mind if they want a nice bit of engine bay bling or something that add's a bit more power,

i mean FFS not everyone wants to (or can afford to) pay £600+ for the btb2 manifold so they settle for what they can afford so why keep trying to put them off???

as for the power gain's/losses with the H/T one let's just wait for daimlerman to post up the result's from his dyno run & let folk make up their own mind instead of forcing other's oppinion's on people when they ask about which one to go for.

at the end of the day it's up to them & no one else.

[Jhonno]

If you can't afford to mod a car, don't.. Don't sit and buy cheap tat and cry about it..

Some wise words from Harry_p there

[phelix]

325msport - all true but good to know which ones are for show and which are for go

[bss325i]

i've just read this thread all the way through & i have to say that when ever a topic like this pop's up everyone starts slating the H/T manifold (& no i don't have one i've got a *Plug* manifold).

thing is it's up to the person buying it to make up their mind if they want a nice bit of engine bay bling or something that add's a bit more power,

i mean FFS not everyone wants to (or can afford to) pay £600+ for the btb2 manifold so they settle for what they can afford so why keep trying to put them off???

as for the power gain's/losses with the H/T one let's just wait for daimlerman to post up the result's from his dyno run & let folk make up their own mind instead of forcing other's oppinion's on people when they ask about which one to go for.

at the end of the day it's up to them & no one else.

The OP wanted to know how different manifolds compared power wise so we have given the facts.

One works, one doesnt. Simple as that.

Intrested in the above 2 manifolds and want to know what are the pros and cons of both and how they compare ie; power gains etc??
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[SHAZ1]

Well said, Thanks ^^^

[gooner1]

The hottuning manifold is a horrible thing.. Badly constructed, and just an attempted copy of the BTB design.. However the difference in the dyno results shows you the difference in the quality of the product.

It didn't even make 1bhp Barry.. 0.6 iirc

0.6! LMFAO!

Just over half a brake, i could probably fart into the induction system and create more power!

That,ll be your Arse Dyno Barry.

[Jon_Bmw]

Not wanting to further the debate...but didn't some of the BTB manifolds have these 'dimples?'

[bss325i]

Not wanting to further the debate...but didn't some of the BTB manifolds have these 'dimples?'

Mine and Oz's dont.

[fuzzy]

thing is it's up to the person buying it to make up their mind if they want a nice bit of engine bay bling or something that add's a bit more power,

i mean FFS not everyone wants to (or can afford to) pay £600+ for the btb2 manifold so they settle for what they can afford so why keep trying to put them off???

as for the power gain's/losses with the H/T one let's just wait for daimlerman to post up the result's from his dyno run & let folk make up their own mind instead of forcing other's oppinion's on people when they ask about which one to go for.

at the end of the day it's up to them & no one else.

your right enough but how can anyone make up their minds without knowing exactly whats what ? and thats what we see in these threads.

[bss325i]

thing is it's up to the person buying it to make up their mind if they want a nice bit of engine bay bling or something that add's a bit more power,

i mean FFS not everyone wants to (or can afford to) pay £600+ for the btb2 manifold so they settle for what they can afford so why keep trying to put them off???

as for the power gain's/losses with the H/T one let's just wait for daimlerman to post up the result's from his dyno run & let folk make up their own mind instead of forcing other's oppinion's on people when they ask about which one to go for.

at the end of the day it's up to them & no one else.

your right enough but how can anyone make up their minds without knowing exactly whats what ? and thats what we see in these threads.

Plus the fact that a HT manifold has been dynoed to see what gains it makes all ready so no need to wait for daimlermans results although it will be interesting none the less.

[bss325i]

Maybe they aren't relying the the results of a single dyno.. Perhaps all the other times it has lost power

Maybe Jhonno,
but pretty sure the results would have found
their way onto here. One way or another.

Yes and no depends on where and when it was done..



This is one of my favourite bits.. You lose more power the closer to the head you get an interruption in air flow.. So I love the hammered by monkeys, right by the head, dimples in the primaries to clear the nuts..

Dan, post some more comedy pics.

[stonesie]

I hurt myself today......

No not the Jonny Cash song, im not into all that self harm crap either.

I bought a 2nd hand but unused HT fanymould and put my finger down one of the runners to check I wasnt seeing things... that cost me some skin, can't be good for flow if it's so bad for fingers.

Might get a pic of the offending article if theres demand.

[bss325i]

Might get a pic of the offending article if theres demand.

Oh there is!

[SHAZ1]

^^^+1

[gooner1]

thing is it's up to the person buying it to make up their mind if they want a nice bit of engine bay bling or something that add's a bit more power,

i mean FFS not everyone wants to (or can afford to) pay £600+ for the btb2 manifold so they settle for what they can afford so why keep trying to put them off???

as for the power gain's/losses with the H/T one let's just wait for daimlerman to post up the result's from his dyno run & let folk make up their own mind instead of forcing other's oppinion's on people when they ask about which one to go for.

at the end of the day it's up to them & no one else.

your right enough but how can anyone make up their minds without knowing exactly whats what ? and thats what we see in these threads.

Plus the fact that a HT manifold has been dynoed to see what gains it makes all ready so no need to wait for daimlermans results although it will be interesting none the less.

Out of interest Barry, what would you call an acceptable gain Bearing in mind the cost ofthe HT item.

[stonesie]

Just for you barry.... I realise I now cant sell this on here






There's a good 2mm step behind that and thats what got me, impossible to photograph without some destruction.

[spook]

But Barry, surely the design of the Racing Dynamics manifold is over twenty years old, and if the BTB and Racing Dynamics ones are the only to have whats up with the Alpina one then moosh.

This threads full of hot air anyway

[Jhonno]

stonsie.. Yours isn't the only one like that.. I have pics of another for a start

[phelix]

I'm not sure the age of the design is relevant - the basics to achieving good flow have not changed since year 1.

[bss325i]

Gooner,

I feel an acceptable gain for the HT, taking into consideration the cost would be 5-10 bhp/lbft.

Spook,

Yes the RD mani design is an old one but its design is very similar to the BTB2, or should i say the BTB2 design is very similar to the RD one. Maybe RD were ahead of the game back then. The alpina and Hartge ones are of a different design with very different shapes primaries to the BTB2/RD ones. As mentioned, the primary design/flow is cruicial to good power hence why the HT ones with their shoddy workmanship in this area of the mani dont make any real gains.

This thread is full of facts

phelix,

Basic flow characteristics haven't changed but technology has.

[gooner1]

Gooner,

I feel an acceptable gain for the HT, taking into consideration the cost would be 5-10 bhp/lbft.

Spook,

Yes the RD mani design is an old one but its design is very similar to the BTB2, or should i say the BTB2 design is very similar to the RD one. Maybe RD were ahead of the game back then. The alpina and Hartge ones are of a different design with very different shapes primaries to the BTB2/RD ones. As mentioned, the primary design/flow is cruicial to good power hence why the HT ones with their shoddy workmanship in this area of the mani dont make any real gains.

This thread is full of facts

phelix,

Basic flow characteristics haven't changed but technology has.

So, in essence, the BTB2 manifold is a copy of the RD one.
HT, albeit not to the same standard, have simply copied everyone. Stonsies pic is truly awful, happily however, there was no such issue with mine, can,t speak for other buyers though. Barry, think your assement of presumed power gains
based on cost is fair enough,i,d certainly be happy with anything
between those figures, even though my reason for buying was,nt
a peformance gain one.

This part of your post though Barry
"
Plus the fact that a HT manifold has been dynoed to see what gains it makes all ready so no need to wait for daimlermans results although it will be interesting none the less." i don,t
really understand. Are you saying that if Diamlermans dyno run
shows an agreed power gain, that it would in fact be irrelevant
because a previous dyno , of a different owners car, showed an insignificant bhp gain Also, did not the graph show an increase in mid range Torque, which is itself a handy addition to some.
Stonsie, not being funny , but if i,d bought that manifold, secondhand or not, i,d be asking for my wedge back.

[stonesie]

I'm serously undecided weather im going to fit it or punt it on Ebay (with a warning on here) the deciding factor will probably be weather the ticking i've got from the cast manifold is from a gasket or a crack in the metal...

[oakey]

Below is a graph taken from Simon's thread showing power runs before and after a HotTuning fannymould was fitted



If I'm not mistaken the above graph shows an increase of 2.3bhp @"peak power" and 6.3ftlb@"peak power" with a decent increase in torque from 3300rpm and at least a 2bhp increase from 3500rpm.

Would an off the shelf chip or bbtb or even a cam change (without remap) show such an all round gain in power?? From what I've seen possibly not

[A1BMW325iSport]

anyone seen the rgm manifold...



http://www.automac.co.uk/product/RGM20

[march109]

Below is a graph taken from Simon's thread showing power runs before and after a HotTuning fannymould was fitted

If I'm not mistaken the above graph shows an increase of 2.3bhp @"peak power" and 6.3ftlb@"peak power" with a decent increase in torque from 3300rpm and at least a 2bhp increase from 3500rpm.

Would an off the shelf chip or bbtb or even a cam change (without remap) show such an all round gain in power?? From what I've seen possibly not

Image deleted to save bandwidth.

In reply - bad example if I'm not mistaken Ants old zone chips made about 6bhp and were 'off the shelf' and cost £65 inc. postage, this was one of my first ever mods when I first got an e30. Way back when.....

Any hoot look at it another way:
HT manifold £250 (ish) = 2bhp = £125 per bhp
BTB manifold £700 (ish) = 15bhp = £47 per bhp
Zone Chip £65 = 6 bhp = £11 per bhp

No one said tuning M20s was cheap. And we all have our own theories and favoured routes.

Prices are estimates since neither the BTB, BTB2 or RD manifolds are made anymore and you'll have to prise them out of owners dead hands.

[bss325i]

So, in essence, the BTB2 manifold is a copy of the RD one.
HT, albeit not to the same standard, have simply copied everyone.

No the BTB isn't a copy of the RD one, i never said that. I said its similar in design, especialy the primaries.

The HT on the other hand is a blatant rip off of the BTB2.

[oakey]

Below is a graph taken from Simon's thread showing power runs before and after a HotTuning fannymould was fitted

If I'm not mistaken the above graph shows an increase of 2.3bhp @"peak power" and 6.3ftlb@"peak power" with a decent increase in torque from 3300rpm and at least a 2bhp increase from 3500rpm.

Would an off the shelf chip or bbtb or even a cam change (without remap) show such an all round gain in power?? From what I've seen possibly not

Image deleted to save bandwidth.

In reply - bad example if I'm not mistaken Ants old zone chips made about 6bhp and were 'off the shelf' and cost £65 inc. postage, this was one of my first ever mods when I first got an e30. Way back when.....

Any hoot look at it another way:
HT manifold £250 (ish) = 2bhp = £125 per bhp
BTB manifold £700 (ish) = 15bhp = £47 per bhp
Zone Chip £65 = 6 bhp = £11 per bhp

No one said tuning M20s was cheap. And we all have our own theories and favoured routes.

Prices are estimates since neither the BTB, BTB2 or RD manifolds are made anymore and you'll have to prise them out of owners dead hands.

My point is that I have dyno charts for m20b25's with a cam swap that produce less than standard power and the same with a few chipped cars.
I'm sure Ant's chips do exactly what they say on tin But some/most don't.

Not meaning to start a battle and I'm not on HT's side but it's hardly fair to base an opinion on one dyno chart.

[terryphelan]

Anyone got a view on the Fritz Bits manifolds?

[A1BMW325iSport]

Anyone got a view on the Fritz Bits manifolds?

yea i'm interested to know about those also. from a search i did i'm sure someone mentioned they were pretty good though

going back to my other post the rgm manifold i posted above does look better construction than the hot tuning one?

[steve_k]

anyone seen the rgm manifold...



http://www.*Plug*.co.uk/product/RGM20

thats exactly the same one i've got & i've had it on my car for nearly 3yr's with no prop's at all (& i paid nearly £500 for it when i got it).

i've got no complaint's about the build qaulity (inside or out) & i just can't justify paying close to £700 for the btb2 manifold.

don't get me wrong if i had the cash to hand i would buy the btb2 but at the end of the day i'll just wait & see how daimlerman get's on at the dyno with his H/T manifold (finger's crossed i'll be at the dyno day to see for myself).

i ain't trying to start a row i'm just putting my point of view across like everyone else.

[A1BMW325iSport]

thanks 325msport thats good to hear

i am tempted to get one and have it ceramic coated in 'Cermakrome' by these guys.. http://www.camcoat.com/motorsport/exhausts.html

[steve_k]

thanks 325msport thats good to hear

i am tempted to get one and have it ceramic coated in 'Cermakrome' by these guys.. http://www.camcoat.com/motorsport/exhausts.html

if you do then let me know how you get on (price & qaulity) as i'm thinking of getting mine done (just to tart it up a bit lol).

[SHAZ1]

where can i get Ant's chip?

[stonesie]

From Ant. He's on here but it's best to Email or call him www.fastbimmer.co.uk