One for the MoT testers...

Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:22 pm

Brianmoooore wrote:
daimlerman wrote: I only asked if I needed side repeaters!!
If you can see your front indicators when standing at the rear of the car, one metre sidewaysfrom the rear corner, then the answer is no. (I think that's what's legally required, IIRC).

I start drilling the front wings tomorrow,then,this may take some time..the good news,Brian,is that the wiring is in place in the RHD dash loom,and it works!!

Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:13 am

Daimlerman,

Should have thought of this before!

Here is the relevant Schedule of the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_1 ... _en_12.htm

Should find everything you could ever want to know about indicators here!

AxleF wrote:fep it makes no difference what the regulations your quoting from , as i said a mot tester can only use what is in the testers guide , it clearly has guidelines regarding obstructions within the drivers view , they book you are quoting from may contradict the testers guide but it is still not relevent to the test the only source of information we can use is the mot testers guide and thats it im affraid .

AxleF, if you read my previous posts on the matter, you will find that there is no question of contradiction between the source statute and VOSA's tester's guide - there can't really be as one IS derived from the other.

But OK, lets look at this from your position. The relevant section of the Testers Manual - Section 8.3 is entitled "Windscreen" and the issue of the driver's view is concerned with scratches, grooves, damage, stickers etc that affect the windscreen. How can a magic tree come into the stipulations of this section - it has nothing to do with the windscreen?

Oh - and guess what - the Motor Vehicles (Tests) Regulations 1981, which stipulate exactly what an MOT does and does not cover (by refering to certain parts of the Construction and Use Regulations), does NOT include vision, except to the extent that the condition of windscreen is included.

Sorry to be so anal - its just the way I am.

Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:55 am

how annoying.

i was going to remove my side repeaters as they were origionally put on too high which has annoyed me since i got the car. had hoped that as a german import, not fitted with them as standard i'd be able to remove them with no bother.

hmm, what to do? leave them where they are and annoy me, fill them and put them lower down where every other m3 i've seen has them fitted, or get a new set of repeaterless wings and swap the ones i have now back on for the mot each year?

Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:05 pm

The only e marking checked on indicators is if the front indicators are of wrapround style and there isn't a sign of a side repeater. The tester then checks for an e marking on the front indicator to show him that it also doubles as a side repeater.

The MOT manual, as far as I know, is NOT open to interpretation. The book sets out the pass and fail criteria for all the areas tested and the tester (in some cases) uses his skills to assess certain components. In others like the tyres and windscreen there are specific measurements.

And yes all UK registered vehicles first used on or after 1st April 86 MUST have side repeaters and hazard flashers. The RVLR states that. It also states that there is no maximum wattage for dip or main beams after that date as well. The headlamps must be a minimum of 30 watss

Pre 86 motors are also no max wattage for h/lamps and no minimum wattage either.

As for this well...
I have failed an mot partly due to a hangin tree before (on my old tech1)
Took it through the car wash outside the mot place (same unit) they gave me a free air freshener and then the car got a fail for it

Shops sell a lot of things that aren't necessarily legal ie number plates, blue lamps etc and it is the user that contravenes the rules by using it on the road.
The hanging tree fails for obstruction of the windscreen by the given amount either 10mm or 40mm depending on Zone A or B and so do sat nac moutings. Some of the

I've seen have them mounted at eye level on the screen, rather than down and to one side out of the swept area as they are meant to be placed....

Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:06 pm

ok fep it seems you are taking this far to seriously and are miss informed with regards to the mot requirements , when you have been testing cars for a little over a decade , have attended mot training courses and refresher courses then you may understand the rules regarding the matter of obstructions in the drivers view , please stick to cabbibg and never step foot in my testing station as we already have enough people who are miss informed with regards to mot's and tell us "you cant fail that" , i can asure you we hear it 3 or 4 times a week and yes we are always right as we double check in our little bible the mot testers guide . i am not trying to mug anyone off but , when people try and tell you , you are wrong and its the same job you have done for ages and on average i do 12 tests a day on a 5 day week , so i think i would know what my own job is about . i wouldnt dream of getting in your cab and telling you a quicker route from marble arch to london bridge , keep reading your books as it obviously keeps you busy .

Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:25 pm

AxleF wrote:ok fep it seems you are taking this far to seriously and are miss informed with regards to the mot requirements , when you have been testing cars for a little over a decade , have attended mot training courses and refresher courses then you may understand the rules regarding the matter of obstructions in the drivers view , please stick to cabbibg and never step foot in my testing station as we already have enough people who are miss informed with regards to mot's and tell us "you cant fail that" , i can asure you we hear it 3 or 4 times a week and yes we are always right as we double check in our little bible the mot testers guide . i am not trying to mug anyone off but , when people try and tell you , you are wrong and its the same job you have done for ages and on average i do 12 tests a day on a 5 day week , so i think i would know what my own job is about . i wouldnt dream of getting in your cab and telling you a quicker route from marble arch to london bridge , keep reading your books as it obviously keeps you busy .

All I'm asking is what has a magic tree got to do with the windscreen. I don't doubt that VOSA would support your assertion that a magic tree represents a failure, I'm just asking you to question if that is supported by the actual law of the land as decided by all those nice men and women in the House of Comedians. Just thought that as an experienced professional MOT tester, you might be interested in that. Oh, and what makes you think that I'm a cabbie?

Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:18 pm

harry_p wrote:how annoying.

i was going to remove my side repeaters as they were origionally put on too high which has annoyed me since i got the car. had hoped that as a german import, not fitted with them as standard i'd be able to remove them with no bother.

hmm, what to do? leave them where they are and annoy me, fill them and put them lower down where every other m3 i've seen has them fitted, or get a new set of repeaterless wings and swap the ones i have now back on for the mot each year?

Think it's up to you to decide on that one!! I have spent the afternoon carefully cutting two holes in each wing,I took measurements from another E30 so I hope I have got it right.The more difficult part was drilling the inner wing for the damn wire,the grommet is enormous,far bigger than my biggest steel cutting drill,and access via the footwells is entertaining to say the least!

Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:15 pm

lol..... kinda glad i havent been involved in the latter part of this thread.....
the windscreen comes under the heading "drivers view of the road" which, you guessed it, includes stupid nic nacs hanging from the mirror! as well as big chips to the windscreen, knackard wipers, empty washer bottles, cracked/missing mirrors.

while i cant fail you for driving with a blindfold on...... i can for any of these!!

Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:39 pm

It can very often come down to testers mood on the day whether he just moves the magic tree or fails you for it. which i completely understand.

If your customer turns up 20 mins late for the MOT, is rude when you tell him he is late, his cars smells like an elephants arse crack when the tester has to sit in it, the boot is full of crap making it impossible to check the seat belts, the seats are folded down, and he has driven over a cow pat on the way to the test station so everything the tester touches under the car is covered in shit then im not suprised he will fail you for something that is technically a fail!

However turn up on time, with a smile, have a chat with the tester and make sure the car is clean and there is a good CD in the CD player and im sure if there is nothing else wrong he is gonna move those furry dice for the 2 minutes it takes him to check the windscreen, see what goes around comes around!

i used to be a testers assistant so i know what makes thier blood boil lol

Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:24 pm

did i offend you fep by calling you a cabbie , just thought you was by the hackney ( of the carriage variety ) thing thought it was a ref to your job .

Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:04 am

oakey wrote:I have failed an mot partly due to a hangin tree before (on my old tech1)
Took it through the car wash outside the mot place (same unit) they gave me a free air freshener and then the car got a fail for it

I wonder what would happen to that MOT inspector if it turned out that the car belonged to the Chief Constable or some top ministry official.

Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:56 pm

Bewdley320T wrote:
oakey wrote:I have failed an mot partly due to a hangin tree before (on my old tech1)
Took it through the car wash outside the mot place (same unit) they gave me a free air freshener and then the car got a fail for it
I wonder what would happen to that MOT inspector if it turned out that the car belonged to the Chief Constable or some top ministry official.

Whats the owner of the car got to do with how roadworthy it is?

Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:34 pm

just a quick question while your on the subject, I'm in the middle of a row with my local council over parking tickets they have issued me, the problem is the wardens only looked at the bottom corner of my windscreen for my parking permit and not at the top of the screen.

I personally chose to put the permit at the top of the screen as when it is near the bottom it is inside the wiper blade area and partially blocks my view on tight left hand turns (ie picking my mum up from work which is a primary school, so I won't see the brats by the curb).

would any of you mot testers constitute me placing it in the bottom corner within the wiper area a failure as this is what my council is telling me to do.

Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:01 am

Parking permits and tax discs are classed as "official stickers" and allowed to be more than 40mm in zone B ie the swept area not directly in front of the driver.

Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:10 pm

bastard I was hoping they were asking me to do something illegal

Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:18 am

Bananaman wrote:just a quick question while your on the subject, I'm in the middle of a row with my local council over parking tickets they have issued me, the problem is the wardens only looked at the bottom corner of my windscreen for my parking permit and not at the top of the screen.

I personally chose to put the permit at the top of the screen as when it is near the bottom it is inside the wiper blade area and partially blocks my view on tight left hand turns (ie picking my mum up from work which is a primary school, so I won't see the brats by the curb).

Local Authorities routinely break many different laws regarding parking enforcement - it's ALWAYS worth challenging them.

Ask them to show you in writing, exactly where it is stated that a permit MUST be at the bottom of the windscreen as opposed to clearly on display.