Hartge M3 breaking

[madaboutthe30]

The previous owner must be feeling pritty gutted right now

[madaboutthe30]

Anyone have any ideas what sort of accident it was?

Theres no rear or front impact, the roof doesnt look too bad so cant have been flipped too many times.......?? Dont know

[Morat]

Looks like a classic sideways moment into a post, or maybe a tree - it was something quite fat.

[Ian_M]

Side on? Lamppost jobby?

[Jhonno]

Yeah deffo a sideways into a lamp post job me thinks.. No dirt or tree residue

[Theo]

Sideways into a tree, car hasn't been upside down.

[jlb]

these were £48,000 in 89'!

March 2003 Total BMW magazine, has a red h36 featured if you want a bit more info.

[Jon_Bmw]

Possible sparco cock given the steering wheel and bad taste in colour of the wheels.

I'm looking forward to seeing the progress thread once you have got hold of a shell. You must be doing the right degree to afford something like this.

[si-]

im a recovery driver for a company in north london, and i picked up a bloke in Harlow/Essex about 6 weeks ago, he had a E30 cab in a ltd edition purple colour one of 250, 325, leather etc etc, it was a bit bashed up and the immob had gone wrong

anyways on the way back to his home in east london (cnt remember where exactly off the a12,) we got on to the convo of E30's as you would and he told me that he owned one of these Hartge m3's knew alot about them and mentioned that he gets invited by bmw to some show in europe

im sure he said his was black though.......seemed genuine, was Asian cnt remember his name nice fella though.

ring anyone's bell's???

[SilverShadow]

Theo congratulations on this buy man!

wish you all the best!

keep us updated!

[Andyboy]

I knew that car and it's last two owners - it's had quite a history and that is not its first accident..............

There are ways of retaining its I.D if you are prepared to bend the rules. First of all you need to enquire with DVLA if the car has actually been registered with them as category B. That's a destruction order and no, they shouldn't have sold you the car complete - well, not legally. DVLA may not have a record of this - not all insurance companies send the V5 back to them. So if they have no record of it being spanked, send off £25 and the V5 application form and off you go.

If it is a Cat C, you rebuild the car, graft the VIN number into the replacement shell, get it inspected and keep your mouth shut. A reshell means a Q plate. The less they know, the better.

If it's a Cat B and DVLA know this, you're not getting that number plate back, ever.

But..........

Rebuild the car into another shell, and graft the VIN number to it - I'm assuming the scuttle VIN and the actual alloy VIN plate are still there? Then you need a build certificate from BMW AG Mobile Tradition to say what it is and when it was built as an M3. From this you can get the car registered on an age related number (F or G reg, whenever it was built). You take the car on a trailer to be inspected at a VOSA/DVLA centre, a guy has a look around it, checks all the numbers. The logbook will have a 2009 registration date but will say 'previously used/registered. Date of manufacture 1989'.
As far as DVLA are concerned, you've built the car up from a shell and can prove it's build date. If you rebuild the car and car retain the VIN, you are indeed larfing to the tune of 20 grand.

[Jon_Bmw]

Just hope the breakers place haven't put a grinder through the Vin plates and scuttle ID as they know its a cat B.

[oi_oi_savaloy]

If my take of Theo's experience's with the vendor and his employee's is right I think they will have done things straight down the line (ie. honestly).

I seem to remember in an earlier post of Theo's that made a point of saying to him that they coudn't sell him the whole car (so they took the roof off?) - anyway; it was something like that.

I think Theo's going to struggle to build it back up into an original M3 Hartge with the same VIN etc attached to it.

BUT if he takes a photographic diary (to show the state of the original car he bought in the knackers yard and it's transformation into the car they see now) wont that satisfy people that it's a legit Hartge M3, just not in it's original shell?

Just trying to think of alternatives if it's been Category A's (or whatever the term is) at the DVLA.

Savaloy

[paddyvw]

nice to see the car is going to be reshelled. i will have a search aroun here to see if some one haas a shell for you theo

[Morat]

I think the effort of bending the rules far enough to keep the original VIN is going to be a bit pointless now that the car's true history is known to a decent slice of the E30 community. It can only make Theo look bad if he reshells it with its original plate and gets some victim to cough up 20 grand for an "original H26". I reckon that if he bought it for the asking price of £3k it can still be built up into something worth having without losing a bucket of cash.

[Demlotcrew]

Look people its got a Kevlar Bonnet! (the little point in the centre at the front gives it away)

[Theo]

Thanks for all the comments, some very interesting points have been made.

Regarding the state I'm getting the car in, It is not the entire car, the area of bodywork which sustained the impact will be cut out and retained by the breakers as per their agreement with the insurance company.

Andy thanks for the post, I think the final suggestion you made is the most likely route. I do want the car to be legitimate! The alloy vin tag has been removed and destroyed by the breakers, the scuttle is still present though. An age related plate or an H36 private plate are options I want to look at.

As Mr Savaloy suggested, I think lots of photo documentation would be wise and I intend to do this.

If anyone knows of a good shell then please get in contact, preferably white but beggars can't be choosers!

[Theo]

Look people its got a Kevlar Bonnet! (the little point in the centre at the front gives it away)

It certainly isn't metal. I thought it might be GRP?

[harry_p]

Regarding the state I'm getting the car in, It is not the entire car, the area of bodywork which sustained the impact will be cut out and retained by the breakers as per their agreement with the insurance company.

my thought was that as it's a cat b and shouldnt be resold complete they have removed the i'd, and through cutting out the damaged sections (i.e roof sill and chunk of floor) then theyre effectively not selling a car, but a load of spare parts.

any chance of doing a reshell on the sly went away a while ago, although i'm suprised it didnt happen before it made it to the scrap yard. afterall, i'm sure its a heck of a lot easier to do on something nice and old and simple than a lot of more moden cars.

[MarkF]

What a shame......

Forgive my lack of knowledge regarding the Hartge cars!

What engine do they have?

Cheers, Mark

[pony2]

After a little research between me and another zoner it transpires that the H35/36 24v used both the M88 and later cars the S38 as found in the E34 M5.

This one has the S38

The M88B35 is normally 286bhp but Hartge tweaked it to 300bhp.

The S38B36 is normally 316bhp and Hartge tweaked it to 330bhp!

Total weapon and no wonder some owners have run out of tallent!

Already covered MarkF.

[Demlotcrew]

Look people its got a Kevlar Bonnet! (the little point in the centre at the front gives it away)

It certainly isn't metal. I thought it might be GRP?

Mate thats a genuine Hartge Kevlar bonnet as per H36 spec.

Andrew

[MarkF]

The engine must be worth a fair bit, got to be worth putting it into a another shell.

What engine do the Hartge's have?

[bss325i]

What a shame......

Forgive my lack of knowledge regarding the Hartge cars!

What engine do they have?

Cheers, Mark

Read through the whole thread and all wil be revealed. Its on about page 2.

[MarkF]

Sorry guys i think my computer/internet had a funny 5 mins then?

Anyway, what an awesome engine! Could think of a good use for that!!!

Cheers!

[Demlotcrew]

Could think of a good use for that!!!!

Does it involve boats?

[MarkF]

No it would involve a weekend in my garage, some spanners, an engine crane and then alot of right foot when it was finished...But no lamp posts!!!

[SPADGE]

What a bargain that was well done Theo!

[Rosc0PColtrane]

Look people its got a Kevlar Bonnet! (the little point in the centre at the front gives it away)

Fackin' 'ell your eyes are sharp!!!!

[Theo]

Mate thats a genuine Hartge Kevlar bonnet as per H36 spec.

Wow, that's a nice bonus. Do you per chance have access to the H36 spec? I'd be very interested to hear more about them if you do.

I was up there this afternoon slowly taking it apart and found a few new things which I didn't spot the first time. Firstly, the sump is split so will need to go to someone who can Tig it. On a more postive note, the rear discs are vented which I don't belive is standard on an m3 is it? Both front and rear anti roll bars are three way adjustable, the hartge rear bars i've seen in the past were non adjustable. These ARB's are massive btw. The car has a tracker fitted, hidden behind a rear doorcard. The rear bumper has aload of plastic trim which effectively flattens off the rear floor - is this normal on an m3?

Here are a few pics of some of the more unusual parts

Diff


Gearbox output


Front ARB


Manifold


Fuel tank and pipework


Rear brake caliper/carrier


Gauge cluster


Hartge speedo


Dead pedal

[Ziggy]

Well done for taking it on - gonna be awesome again I'm sure

[bss325i]

Morsels galore!

[SilverShadow]

Mate thats a genuine Hartge Kevlar bonnet as per H36 spec.

Wow, that's a nice bonus. Do you per chance have access to the H36 spec? I'd be very interested to hear more about them if you do.

I was up there this afternoon slowly taking it apart and found a few new things which I didn't spot the first time. Firstly, the sump is split so will need to go to someone who can Tig it. On a more postive note, the rear discs are vented which I don't belive is standard on an m3 is it? Both front and rear anti roll bars are three way adjustable, the hartge rear bars i've seen in the past were non adjustable. These ARB's are massive btw. The car has a tracker fitted, hidden behind a rear doorcard. The rear bumper has aload of plastic trim which effectively flattens off the rear floor - is this normal on an m3?

Here are a few pics of some of the more unusual parts

Diff


Gearbox output


Front ARB


Manifold


Fuel tank and pipework


Rear brake caliper/carrier


Gauge cluster


Hartge speedo


Dead pedal

[Theo]

I'm really regretting recently selling a Hartge steering wheel and old style bootbadge.

[Returnof318i]

The first thread i have ever read form start to beggining, an exciting buy i must say