Cloud's Restoration Project

Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:55 pm

SHAKEELE30 wrote:So far 2 pages and nothing evidence of how the project is going apart from a few pics at the begginning.

It's only been a few days!
Most of the two pages is just me being called an idiot.

Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:51 pm

dont worry ignore them, they're just winding you up....

Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:50 am

Personally if you want big power in an e30, i wouldn't waste your time on an m20 turbo, jap engines are the way forward.

Think how cheap you can get a supra, skyline gts, 200sx engine and box for.

The supercharger for the m20 will probably be more than all of the above.

Just food for thourght.

Its also worth noting that the rear diff hanger will need significant reinforcement to accept the sort of power/torque you are after.

Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:43 pm

Weirdly enough, I've just this morning been offered a 4 litre Mitsubishi Shogun, basically a giveaway since it's a thirsty beast. I could run that for a year, while I get the basics of my E30 sorted, and then fit the Shogun engine (+ clutch and gearbox, I think) into the fixed up E30. Hmmm... ideas. Thanks for the suggestion, you've really got me thinking. I'll still get the M20 engines that I still haven't got, just to keep my options open. How much does it change a car to put a different engine in? I don't want to end up with a Toyota/All-Parts car which happens to look like a BMW. I still want it to work, drive and feel like the E30, just with a little bit of fury to feed my relatively satiable thirst for power.

Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:37 pm

Cloud wrote:Weirdly enough, I've just this morning been offered a 4 litre Mitsubishi Shogun, basically a giveaway since it's a thirsty beast. I could run that for a year, while I get the basics of my E30 sorted, and then fit the Shogun engine (+ clutch and gearbox, I think) into the fixed up E30. Hmmm... ideas. Thanks for the suggestion, you've really got me thinking. I'll still get the M20 engines that I still haven't got, just to keep my options open. How much does it change a car to put a different engine in? I don't want to end up with a Toyota/All-Parts car which happens to look like a BMW. I still want it to work, drive and feel like the E30, just with a little bit of fury to feed my relatively satiable thirst for power.

Do you loike dogggs ?

Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:40 pm

Cloud wrote:I'll have the four door. Being laughed at at the start of track days will only make the smile on my face bigger as I whip round the circuit swallowing Imprezas, GTi Golfs, 911s, RS and STs, Saxos, Vettes, Cozzas, touge Hachi-rokus, Type-Rs... Anyway, I thought we liked the E30 on this forum. Why does everyone want to see mine crushed up?

the only way you'll get past anyone is if you can actually drive properly!

you can have all the horses in the world but if you can't pedal.......

Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:55 pm

Cloud wrote:
SHAKEELE30 wrote:So far 2 pages and nothing evidence of how the project is going apart from a few pics at the begginning.
It's only been a few days!
Most of the two pages is just me being called an idiot.

Got a sneaky feeling they are trying to tell you something Cloud.

Your car, your time,money,dream, do what YOU want mate.

Btw, i,ve got the most enormous Turnip, that i just might be persuaded to sell
if you're interested

Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:36 am

Pacer: I'm more of a cat person. I'll rethink this particular engine.

Simon: If it was a car park day, I'd fail horribly. Tracks, I can do.

Gooner: Thanks very much, it's nice to have some support.
Is "turnip" some kind of code to which I am innocent, or is it an actual turnip?

Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:30 pm

In my experience it's always better to start a project with the best base that you can.

Best of luck though

Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:41 pm

why is everyone still giving this man a hard time, let him do what he wants. It might just turn out an awesome car. Why is it that everyone here just end up cussing people who want to do something different, its not your money,car etc so what you lot worried about.

And rslut, what is the best base to start off with....

Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:07 pm

SHAKEELE30 wrote:why is everyone still giving this man a hard time, let him do what he wants. It might just turn out an awesome car. Why is it that everyone here just end up cussing people who want to do something different, its not your money,car etc so what you lot worried about.

And rslut, what is the best base to start off with....

I dont think I was giving anyone a hard time mate.

In terms of starting with a decent base car is the best you can find/afford. I'd be looking for a car with the minimal amount of rust I could find, whether it be low spec, cheaper to buy or something like a sport, where you could sell the parts you didnt want / need to recoupe some of your initial outlay.

Only going on experience of what I've done in the past as I'm not a fan of welding or bodywork and it can be expensive if you've got to pay for it.

Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:14 pm

I could spend £1500 on a new-different car with "the minimal amount of rust". But I could spend £1500 on having the one I have made completely rust-free, with new underseal and new paint on all the trouble spots. I can weld, but my welding is very heavy and strong, so I'll take it to a bodyshop where they can give it something smooth and delicate. The outside of the car is fine, surprisingly. Apart from the bit behind the number plate, which will be hidden by the plate and maybe that black plastic panel if I choose to use it. There wont be any welds where anyone can see. If that was the case, I'd look at getting a new panel, and if I were faced with getting a new panel, I may consider getting a new car. But, the necessary welding wont spoil the look of the car, will be as tidy as possible, and should last at least as long as a decent but unwelded car.

Shakeel, your sig is great. I feel just the same.

Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:46 pm

Sunny day!
so...
Progress!

Up in the first post, there's a particularly gruesome picture of some major "rust" in the wheel arch. Turns out that this rust is of the dirt variety, and cleans away to reveal glorious Alpinewhite underneath! This cheered me up a bit. In fact, there's almost no rust I can see from the rear axle back.

I've also begun stripping the interior out. It's that weird dark blue leather interior, and even if it didn't have to come out for bodyshopping, I'd still like to get some nice fuzzy cloth interior door cards in black (or dyed black) and match them to some nice leather sports seats in black. So the blue plasticness is out. First picture is the removal of door cards, second is of the driver's seat, on the bonnet, naturally.

Only downside to today's progress what that I got a bit keen taking off the rear bumper,
and it became some broken plastic shards instead.

Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:25 pm

I have a 4 door.

I've spent what a lot of people would consider insane money on it in a relatively short time ~ probably very near five thousand of your English pounds...and I'm not even half way done. LOL!

Personally, I prefer 4 doors (being a bit gimped makes it almost impossible for me to get into the back of a 2 door, let alone clean anything back there).

Good luck to you, sir, I say.

4 doors = wrongness
Alpine White, to many people = wrongness

We're on a winner I think.

The only real downer is that for what you want to achieve I can see around 15K being spent and no change at the end. You'd have a hell of a car, though.

Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:36 pm

Cheers Ade. I've been admiring yours, and as I said in your thread, it's perfection. I decided today that I'm going to sort the bodyshell of this car out first, get all the rust gone, get the bodywork all pristine, then run it for a year with the current engine, while I build up some money to take it to A-Tech for tuning. You quoted another optimistic figure there, I personally wouldn't be surprised if the project from start to finish costs 20K. Still, good fun, and I agree, a hell of a car at the end.

Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:54 pm

i for one say good luck restoring it, i got a lot of stick for buying a corrado that had seen better days and i spent quite a bit (a hell of a lot) of money on it, and although it didn't get finished (due to becomin a daddy

) i still was real fond and attached to it.

It might seem stupid to people on the outside lookin in but its a labour of love not rationality.

keep updates posted cuz i'd like to see how you get on...

Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:02 am

good on ya pal, its your car and your money, do with it as you please, save another e30 from the scrapper you got my

Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:28 am

Cheers.

Another photo, this is of the door lock damage. The inside has got a new lock, so the car is still lockable, still activates the central locking too. But the exterior bears the scars of the joyriders. Is this panel-beatable, or should I be looking at getting a new door? Photo is high contrast so you can see all the ripples, bends and marks.
Should mention that the sticker was there when I bought it.

Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:01 pm

thats salvageable, just depends on which is cheaper and easier, new door or refurb

Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:38 pm

I got the 2.5 engine today! All the loom is intact and everything, I'm chuffed to bits. Pics tomorrow. Next major step is getting an M52 crank, making the engine 2.8, and a management chip from Speedtouch. Also the shell and bodywork need to be tidied up.
Will the 320 drivetrain be able to cope with the extra power and torque from the 2.8 or will I need to upgrade that before I can start using it as an everyday car? I'm on an unlimited budget, but low income. So would it be worth upgrading to the 325 gearbox and diff as a temporary measure, if I'm only going to need them replaced again once I 'charge the engine? If not, can anyone recommend a good replacement gearbox, diff, prop shaft, clutch, etc? Ideally I'd want long gearing, big ambitions I know, but I'd like the car to be capable of 200+mph as well as getting acceptable motorway mpg.

Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:47 pm

Cloud wrote: Ideally I'd want long gearing, big ambitions I know, but I'd like the car to be capable of 200+mph as well as getting acceptable motorway mpg.

That will be one hell of a 2.8L to get to 200mph! You'll never get there with the E30 aerodynamics

Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:52 pm

Theoretical 200?
The plan is to create "one hell of a 2.8"

Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:16 am

E30Mark wrote:
Cloud wrote: Ideally I'd want long gearing, big ambitions I know, but I'd like the car to be capable of 200+mph as well as getting acceptable motorway mpg.
That will be one hell of a 2.8L to get to 200mph! You'll never get there with the E30 aerodynamics

I'm with mark on this one, don't be so wet!

You'd need 500bhp IMO at least to hit 200mph, with the e30's aerodynamics I reckon it would be impossible with even another 50% bhp on top of that!

The 2.8 in my engine bay cost the previous owner in the region of 6k. Plus ancillaries, my 2.9 build is adding up quick to more than that.

Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:29 am

You cant build a good engine cheap, ask anybody with a good engine

Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:50 am

DanThe wrote:You cant build a good engine cheap, ask anybody with a good engine

+1

Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:35 am

I'm gonna stick my neck out here, an m20 2.8 (any spec you want) in an e30 shell aint gonna do 200mph sorry

I would truly love you to prove me wrong please. I love e30s even rusty ones, but owning an e30 is not about having a car that will do 200mph.

If you made an e30 capable of going that fast, it would no longer be an e30

Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:08 am

march109 wrote:The 2.8 in my engine bay cost the previous owner in the region of 6k. Plus ancillaries, my 2.9 build is adding up quick to more than that.

I don't like the sound of that a mere 'boring' old M20 build....

Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:28 pm

march109 wrote:You'd need 500bhp IMO at least to hit 200mph, with the e30's aerodynamics I reckon it would be impossible with even another 50% bhp on top of that!

With a variety of tuning and racing parts, 500bhp is my rough target.

For everyone else, I'm not planning anything cheap. Earlier in the thread I speak of £20,000, and even that is no limit. I'm not on a stellar income, but I'm not doing it on the cheap either. I'm just saving up for a bit longer and buying the best available. It may be a bit obsessive compulsive, but I know that if I were to take the car to a track day, having fitted an induction kit like you find on eBay or something, it'd always be in the back of my mind that it could be better, and that it needs changing. That's why I want to use the best that's available.

I'll admit I'm not really in the know of aerodynamics. So, with a 500bhp E30, what do you guys think is the upper limit of realistic?

Performance BMW Magazine - on tuning an M20B25, for an E30 wrote:

Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:02 pm

I don't think you'd be far off a theoretical 200mph if you took a standard E30 with the necessary gearing & 500 BHP. A current M5 could just about manage it, with similar power what I'd estimate to be a similar CdA (ie better Cd, but more A!). For amusements sake, an F40 made 471bhp IIRC & did 201mph - again it's a better shape but I'd expect the overall drag to be not far off.

The problem you've got is that the E30 would need a lot of aero work to prevent it from being utterly lethal at those speeds - & that would push the Cd way up. But then you've said you want it to look near enough standard...

So my conclusion - if you want an E30 that's theoretically capable of doing 200mph then it's doable with 500(ish)bhp. But if you actually intend to do 200mph (or anywhere near that) in it, you won't survive long enough to tell anyone about it.

Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:14 pm

Jhonno wrote:
march109 wrote:The 2.8 in my engine bay cost the previous owner in the region of 6k. Plus ancillaries, my 2.9 build is adding up quick to more than that.
I don't like the sound of that a mere 'boring' old M20 build....

Nowt boring about it.

Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:15 pm

ppf have tested their e30 touring to over 190mph, has only 500bhp....... 2.7 too.

I would have thought the prism motorsport e30 would do not far off that with the 5ltr V8 twin turbo lump in it.

There's also a e30 being fitted with a V10 M5 engine, that'll do 200+

My worry would be what panels would peel off at that sort of speed, plenty of mods required to prevent the air ripping the front end to bits.

Having driven mine at over 140 and off the clock I can't see why you would want to go any faster, you just can't drive that fast, it's a "hold ya balls and pray" momment.

I'd rather have a 0-140mph time of around 10 secs, that'll roast anything this side of an ariel atom or veyron, doing a veyron off the lights would be the ultimate pub brag.....

Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:31 pm

Also, end of the day 100mph is licence losing territory anyway!

Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:44 pm

fozzymonster wrote: I'd rather have a 0-140mph time of around 10 secs, that'll roast anything this side of an ariel atom or veyron, doing a veyron off the lights would be the ultimate pub brag.....

Quite! Gearing a road car for 200mph is pointless. Ok, higher gearing would be better for economy but who builds a 500bhp E30 to be economical at the expense of real performance?!

Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:06 pm

At the very very least I want a real 165mph, which in a pub-brag situation makes it faster than the Ariel Atom, BMW E46 M3 CSL, Nissan 350Z, Ford Focus ST, Shelby GT500, and of course the range of Audi and Mercedes cars which are electronically limited to 155, and since the car will almost certainly see track and race situations, some proper top end might be useful. A 0-140 of ten seconds sounds more fun than a 0-180 time of about 40 seconds, and better for the tracks too.
I might take a leaf out of Aston Martin's book, and make (or have made) five gears for the 10-second 0-140mph blast, and have a ridiculously long sixth gear for chugging on up to 180, or serious motorway economy. Best of both worlds then. Would that work? Would it be any good?

Here's a bad photo of the new 2.5 powerplant. It's awaiting a crank replacement, and the body shell of the car needs a bit of work, and then it can be fitted. Hopefully it wont be too long now.

Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:27 pm

I was just chatting online to someone about my project, and they came back with a lovely quote. "does England still inspire mavericks, those that push boundaries and break barriers? It can. Don't be discouraged, people thought Isambard Brunel was aiming too far into the impossible too."
I like being compared to Brunel, though my project is on a much smaller scale and I'm no engineer by a long way, I think I'm taking my own little step beyond the average, the usual, the tried and tested.