Wil the E30 ever become classic?

[ChrisBarns]

Just because it is old and rare doesn't make a "classic". There are a lot of old Fords that haven't done what mk1 Escorts have done.

There are a few enthusiasts who will want something just because its old. These people have restored Cortina 1.2s and Hilman Hunters but the cars aren't really worth anything (and certainly nothing compared to the resotration cost and effort).

I've watched the classic car market for the last 20 years. A few years I go I posted on here in response to a similar question. My arguement was that cars that become "classics" are cars that people desired when they were new and now have enough spare cash to buy and look after / restore. I remember the post beacuse Andybody quoted me and agreed with me and I was chuffed! Anyway, by that logic, M3s are or will be classics, 325s probably will be, especially cabs and sports. Nobody thought "God, I wish I had a 318 auto". Quite a few people thought I wish I had a 325 or a 3 series convertable.

When they were new Cortina GTs and 325is were, say, 25% cheaper than Lotus Cortina and M3s. Now they are worth a much smaller fraction of their more illustrius brethren. Years ago people made decisions along the lines of "should I get a 325 / GT / XR4i or should I really stretch myself and get the M3 / Lotus / Cosworth?" In those days the price gap was fairly small, today it was a chasm.

Nobody wants a 318 / Cortina 1.2 / Sierra 1.6L today. So they aren't worth anything. Even the people who bought them new didn't really desire one, it was just the best they could afford. In fact I would suggest the only reason Cortina GTs are worth anything is people who really want a Lotus bit can't afford them buy GTs instead.

However, recently the classic world has evolved and I have slightly revised my theory of what makes a "classic". Desieability is still important but useability is of increasing significance. This is an extra nail in the coffin for the classic status of a 316 or 320.

Suppose you own a "classic". It cost you thousands and needs lots of (expensive) looking after or lots of your time if you are a hands-on chap. What are you going to use it for?

Most classics are second cars. Infact many classic insurance companies have "second car" as part of the definition of classic. You could drive to work but it isn't as reliable / comfortable / airconditioned as a modern car.

A classic is a lesuire item. Use it on lovely Sunday afternoons to take your family to the pub. Take it for the occasional thrash. Maybe race or hillclimb in it. Why would you want to any of these in a 4 door 318? Even 325s aren't thrillingly fast. At least in cabs you can potter with the roof down.

Mk1 Escorts are worth a lot because you can compete in them or build a competition replica with one and go hareing about the countryside in it. I suppose it is possible that a 316 survivor will have a value in the future because it could be a base for a special but, since the classic world exists (unlike when Escorts were 15 years old) M3s are already cherrised and looked after.

in conclusion (you'd never guess I'd been drinking!). M3s are classics, Sports, 325s and cabs are / will be. The rest? Not really.

[Alex]

deffo allready a classic they are getting rarer by the day

people should stop breaking them

the IS and 325i sport will be the most collectable

[B7]

No an E30 is not a classic in the term of what you can describe a classic car. A Classic car is a Jaguar E-type or an old Lotus Cortina or most of the cars who was made in the old days before 1980.

Who's determined that a classic car has to be built before 1980?

Classic cars do not have to be worth so much money you could sell them and retire to mote carlo!

Triumph Herald = Classic
Morris Minor = Classic

Both examples of cars for the masses that even today struggle to fetch much money. And (even though i restored a Herald) neither could be described are earth statteringly insping!

Move onto the Escorts. The Mk1 and 2 were really good cars, again for the masses, Everyone had one. As said these are now in the "high roller" money even the cooking models.

All of the above were day to day normal cars. Wives dropped the kids to school on their way to Tescos. Thousands of people learnt to drive in them. They were the quintissential Driving School cars. Yet they are recognised as classics.

Fast forward onto the e30's. When the e30 was current, successful people owned them. If you were joe bloggs buying the wife a car to go shopping, she got a fiesta or an escort, maybe a meastro if you hated her guts. The e30 was a car people wanted to own but couldn't stretch to it. I didn't see many with BSM modules on the roof of e30's either. Much of the popularity of the e30 can be attributed to the 80's financial situation, i.e. THE YUPPIES. This alone, in my book, gives the e30 a kudos that gives (read gave) it a head start in the classics game. People strived to own one, People who had one were talked about. "He's doing alright for himself, Look he's got a BMW" albeit a 318 on steels with comfort cloth and keep fit windows.

That was what it was like. I was there, a 20 something whippersnapper with his head always in a car mag. An 80's BMW on the drive? You'd arrived mate.

[Jesus325iTouring]

If you were joe bloggs buying the wife a car to go shopping, she got a fiesta or an escort, maybe a meastro if you hated her guts

Classic cars aside,this is a classic line Nice one Trev!

[StriderDriver]

I think we have all summed it up quite nicely.

It doesn't matter what peoples understanding of the 'classic' status is, we all love the E30 in which ever guise. Mine owes me over £3000 just in purchase & maintenance (no trick bits or upgrades) and I'm quite happy to pay that again over the next few years.

Some, without the knowledge, will see our chariots just as old cars and not understand their significance or appreciate the enthusiasm we have.

IMO; it's a hobby and a love the comments received in petrol stations, car-parks, etc from 'family' guys "I wish I had one of those" - makes me proud to be the father of my baby

[DanThe]

It may or may not be a 'classic' yet but mark my words the price of e30's is on the up and will continue that way.

We all know they are fetching more money now due to the recent hike in scrap prices

[Morat]

Harsh! but probably fair.
Still, I intend MY e30 to be one that would be sought after in years to come - as long as I don't crash it that is.

[Mtech327]

It may or may not be a 'classic' yet but mark my words the price of e30's is on the up and will continue that way.
ROC - Correct the once worthless 2 door and 4 door bog standard mark 1 and 2 Scorts once worthless turds are now fetching stupid money as will the E30.

I was down at Bridgend breakers the other day and Andy said he has waiting lists for clean E30 shells (2 or 4 doors). Problem is he has'nt had one in for over a year now!.

It's a classic already!!

[e36boy]

I go on a well known vw forum and posted some pics of my old sport, I think people outside the e30 scene dont see a sport as classic...........just a 325i.
M3's get a little more recognised as classic and the prices they command reflect this.
I think the arse has fallen out of the prices on sports lately......They seem to be going down in price......going off many ive seen for sale lately.

[Andyboy]

E30's are now a classic. I have people commenting on mine and although nice and clean, neither are concours entrants.

There's classic, and there's valuable. A Mark 1 Escort 1300 XL Automatic is now a £2500 car because although it's at the bottom of the rung, a Mexico is £10'000 and an RS1600 twice as much. Not everyone can afford that, and not everyone wants to go racing about so you take what you can get/afford. The last 4 door Escort Mk1 I saw was driven by a young bird. There are no less that three clean HC Vivas around here, all driven by people in their twenties. It's not valuable (£800?) but it makes a statement; 'I drive this because it's old and it suits me, and I like it'.

History shows that although base model stuff isn't valuable, it has a following. Recently I tried to buy a white Y plate Sierra 1.6L at a local auction, a 1983 thing with the grey plastic bumpers and flying saucer wheeltrims - it was very clean but I wasn't paying the £450 it went for. You try getting £450 for an R reg Mondeo at an auction - good luck. At least two auction goers wanted that car and it will have gone to a good home.

Judging by the favourable comments my steel wheeled 318i Auto four door gets, I'd say the number or doors and choice of transmission doesn't affect its classic status in the least - just it's value. It's the Escort 1300XL Automatic of E30's and in another 10 years, there will be a willing buyer for a nice one when 2 door 325is are out of reach.

Strange how the E30 captured the imagination and the E21 and 2002 have just never really taken off.

[StuBeeDoo]

Strange how the E30 captured the imagination and the E21 and 2002 have just never really taken off.

Something to do with the E30 being the original yuppie-mobile??? The '02 and E21 were never around in the numbers that the E30 was.

I have people commenting on mine and although nice and clean, neither are concours entrants.

I get comments on mine too. It's nowhere near concours but people just seem to like it for what it is. Surely, that's a sign of classic status?

[fuzzy]

what or who defines classic status? people that own austin allegros will argue all day long that their car is a classic whilst everyone else just laughs....

[B7]

people that own austin allegros will argue all day long that their car is a classic....

Yes but we have to draw the line somewhere

[StuBeeDoo]

what or who defines classic status? people that own austin allegros will argue all day long that their car is a classic whilst everyone else just laughs....

Are there actually any All-aggros left in the world??
IIRC, they came with factory-fitted water ingress through the rear 'screen, the boot floor rotted rather quickly as a result and BLMC never managed to resolve the issue during the life of the car.

[Speedtouch]

Are there actually any All-aggros left in the world??
IIRC, they came with factory-fitted water ingress through the rear 'screen, the boot floor rotted rather quickly as a result and BLMC never managed to resolve the issue during the life of the car.[/color]

Yes, unfortunately; there is one around the corner from me in a hideous mustard yellow - someone actually bothers to tax it!!! Still, they've just written off another on tonight's Top Gear

[fuzzy]

what or who defines classic status? people that own austin allegros will argue all day long that their car is a classic whilst everyone else just laughs....

Are there actually any All-aggros left in the world??
IIRC, they came with factory-fitted water ingress through the rear 'screen, the boot floor rotted rather quickly as a result and BLMC never managed to resolve the issue during the life of the car.

another allegro less now after watching top gear

[Andyboy]

It was a Vanden Plas 1500 too.
It had rear picnic tables so that pensioners could snort a bit of coke on Brighton sea front. It was a kind of a pity they destroyed it. It lasted for 32 years and it's gone in an instant.

[SPADGE]

It was a Vanden Plas 1500 too.
It had rear picnic tables so that pensioners could snort a bit of coke on Brighton sea front. It was a kind of a pity they destroyed it. It lasted for 32 years and it's gone in an instant.

Your right Andy it should have been destroyed at birth
Saw a Maxi 1750 today now there is a proper car

[Felix79]

I am amazed any of those cars ever got made considerign how often the lazy gits were on strike in Cowley and Longbridge.

[bss325i]

I was down at Bridgend breakers the other day...........

Is that local to Croydon?

[old_skool]

I had a Marina pull out in front of me yesterday, it's the first one I've seen in years

The 2.8i Capri for example, what a shed that was 'back in the day', nowadays they are worth proper money now all the kevved up scrap has made it's way well and truly into he land of the Hibachi barbecue. Take note certain cab owners.

Will the e30 ever be a classic? Yes, not quite there yet though. Trouble is you still see them around nearly on a daily basis. I think for a car to be considered a classic, apart from a certain appeal it needs to be fairly aloof. When I take the 2002 out it turns heads, not because it is a special thing. Just because it is something rarely seen and kinda quirky.

People make kind remarks about it and genuinely seem interested in what it is, especially when I've got them pinned by the throat over the bonnet

[Mtech327]

I was down at Bridgend breakers the other day...........

Is that local to Croydon?

No it's near Maidstone, but worth the trip as they have loads of on the shelf parts for reasonable money

[djk]

Everyone's view of what constitutes 'a classic' is different - one man's meat is another man's poison. As a bearded subscriber to Classic and Sports Car (I'm only 26 though!), I tend to take the broader view that a classic is a car that is somehow anachronistic in design and purpose yet remains desirable to a certain sort of person.

The most obvious and ubiquitous 'classic' motors are probably MGBs and E-types, both of which I personally can't stand, but I accept they have their following and don't begrudge their enthusiasts the opportunity to call them 'classic'. Is my e30 a 'classic'? I think so. Is it as 'classic' as a MkII Jag, or a Lotus Elite or a pre-war Bentley? Probably not. We're all the same milk, just from different nipples.

I've always felt that too often 'classic' is used as a term of economics - as though the vehicle in question must be some sort of investment panacea while at the same time remaining a means of transport - the fact is most people who own something they call classic find it an enormous money pit. For me, it is passionate enthusiasts that make a classic, more than mere passage of time or financial speculation.

Doesn't this forum itself and the amount of traffic on it suggest that any and all e30s are in some way classic?

[Simon13]

Doesn't this forum itself and the amount of traffic on it suggest that any and all e30s are in some way classic?

no just broken old rusty sh!t

[Fushion_Julz]

Strange how the E30 captured the imagination and the E21 and 2002 have just never really taken off.

Bollox...

Most of what you wrote made absolute sense....But the 02 (and the Nueue Class saloons from which they were deirved) is a classic in almost any form...

The Turbo, Tii and Ti especially so, but even a base 1502 or 1602 will be sought after enough if it is complete...

[djk]

Doesn't this forum itself and the amount of traffic on it suggest that any and all e30s are in some way classic?

no just broken old rusty sh!t

lol

[StuBeeDoo]

Doesn't this forum itself and the amount of traffic on it suggest that any and all e30s are in some way classic?

no just broken old rusty sh!t

Yep! We got plenty of that here.

[e30bmlover]

If only they would list the Sport as a separate model from the boggo 325i

thats because there isnt allot of difference between them
yes the m3 is a classic and yes the e30 is approaching classic status, good e30's will always fetch strong money!

[Andyboy]

Strange how the E30 captured the imagination and the E21 and 2002 have just never really taken off.

Bollox...

Most of what you wrote made absolute sense....But the 02 (and the Nueue Class saloons from which they were deirved) is a classic in almost any form...

The Turbo, Tii and Ti especially so, but even a base 1502 or 1602 will be sought after enough if it is complete...

Really? How many carburettor 2002's command the 10 grand a Mark 1 Mexico does? How many 2002Tii's make the 20+ grand an RS1600 does? If they are so sought after, why is ebay littered with rusty projects for a couple of hundred quid? How many 320 E21's make more than £600?

Only the Turbo is actually worth any money. As for the E21, they are worth less than a good pair of jeans unless absolutely mint and even then they're worth a grand at most. The E30 has a proper following. Does the 2002 have an active forum? No, I thought not. The E21 has a forum based in Holland where there is some interest but they are pretty much forgotten now.

[Blitz]

E21 323i is a classic.

[casper8r]

Sometimes the only difference between a classic and a turd in most people's eyes is how well it has been maintained and how clean it looks. Most of the e30's here fall between the two extremes of clinically clean and terminally scrotty. When the latter group disappears the prices will be in thousands, not hundreds.

That being said I don't think cars are a good investment idea in general. As someone once said "the only way to become rich in motorsport is to start very rich", I think it's safe to say the same about collecting cars as an investment.

[Fushion_Julz]

Strange how the E30 captured the imagination and the E21 and 2002 have just never really taken off.

Bollox...

Most of what you wrote made absolute sense....But the 02 (and the Nueue Class saloons from which they were deirved) is a classic in almost any form...

The Turbo, Tii and Ti especially so, but even a base 1502 or 1602 will be sought after enough if it is complete...

Really? How many carburettor 2002's command the 10 grand a Mark 1 Mexico does? How many 2002Tii's make the 20+ grand an RS1600 does? If they are so sought after, why is ebay littered with rusty projects for a couple of hundred quid? How many 320 E21's make more than £600?

Only the Turbo is actually worth any money. As for the E21, they are worth less than a good pair of jeans unless absolutely mint and even then they're worth a grand at most. The E30 has a proper following. Does the 2002 have an active forum? No, I thought not. The E21 has a forum based in Holland where there is some interest but they are pretty much forgotten now.

Being a classic or having classic status is nothing to do with value (as has been pointed out in this thread before)...Value has more to do with rarity...You could argue that a (genuine) 2002Ti is rarer than any Mk1 Mexico...
Try to find one! If you do I'll give you £200 for it in any condition, so long as it is complete.

Some cars are rare AND desireable (Bugatti, Duesenberg, early Maserati, etc)...these go for huge amounts of money...

Some cars are rare and not desireable (Vandan Plas 4.0, Ferrari 400i for example)...These ones are peanuts to pick up, even in excellent condition...

Some cars are just desirable but ont at all rare (Morris Minor, Triumph Herald/Vitesse, Hillman Minx) and these can be bought for beer money if you are prepared to restore them...I think the 2002 falls into this category...

Some cars are not rare and not desirable, despite being old...(Austin Morris 1100/1300, Allegro, Fiat 124 saloons, etc)...no matter how much you spend on these they will never be worth much...Perhaps the E21 is in this category...

Some cars, though, like the Escort Mexico, the E30 M3, Lotus Cortina, Jag Mk2, Citroen DS, Austin Healey 3000, etc have a certain place in motoring history because of the design or success of the car in motorsport...They may not be rare or even desirable to the mass market any more, but they were once and THAT is what makes them worth more...the PROVENANCE...

[ivqii]

That being said I don't think cars are a good investment idea in general. As someone once said "the only way to become rich in motorsport is to start very rich", I think it's safe to say the same about collecting cars as an investment.

Not as bad as Ocean racing though - someone once said

"To experience the full thrill of Ocean Racing stand under an ice cold shower and tear up £50 notes"

[AlexBaur325]

"To experience the full thrill of Ocean Racing stand under an ice cold shower and tear up £50 notes"

was that Clarkson? he did a powerboat feature on his "Extreme Machines" series. (think thats what it was called)

[ivqii]

"To experience the full thrill of Ocean Racing stand under an ice cold shower and tear up £50 notes"

was that Clarkson? he did a powerboat feature on his "Extreme Machines" series. (think thats what it was called)

Nope this is sailing - It was one of our professional but private yacht owning round the world type skippers