Engine Swap M20B20 2 HartgeH27 !PROBLEM SOLVED & ALL FIX

[tomson]

I was pretty lucky in purchasing a genuine Hartge H27 engine with original ECU, Wiring loom, Cam Cover, Six Branch and paper work from an old school zoner located in Bristol

I do hope all this is not in vain

[SilverShadow]

its just gone 2am and i cant sleep thinking about the following!!!

I got the engine in last saterday and had it all the wiring loom and water hoses connected today and was ready to be fired up!!!

went to start it up and nothing!!! none of the ignition lights turned on but the interior/exterior and electric windows all work??

I checked both earth point, which were the earth on the battery and the earth that is on the car from the sump they all seem fine!

also check the postive and the are all connected.

have i missed out somthing?

I was realy hoping to get it started this week.

can any one suggest anything way there is no power to the engine????

many thanks

[Jhonno]

earth goes from engine arm to chassis rail iirc..

have you connected up all the positives to the battery? Sounds like you have done the car loom one at least..

[SilverShadow]

earth goes from engine arm to chassis rail iirc..

have you connected up all the positives to the battery? Sounds like you have done the car loom one at least..

Is that the wire that come out from the sump and connects to the chassis?

I checked that and looks fine??

Is there a way to bypass the start up, in the diagnostic plug?

[daimlerman]

OK,so no power to the engine...battery the right way round? Starter motor connections correct? The plug/socket under the inlet manifold correct? Have you read and understood and check for the wiring noted by Mr Moore sticky'd at the head of engine swaps? All of this and still no go? Does the engine spin on the starter?

[snoops]

sorry for stating the obvious but just a thought, is the battery dead?

[SilverShadow]

hi guys thanks for all your replies!

OK quick update i by passed the ignition coil and connected it directly to the battery positive and now the lights in the dash (battery, oil, brakes) have now come on!??????

battery is connected the right way also im trying to jump start the engine from a another car so battery should be eliminated??????????

[daimlerman]

So the engine spins over on the starter.You only need fuel and a spark to be in business.Does fuel squirt out of the feed to the fuel rail when you remove the pipe and spin the engine over? Have you a spark at the plugs? Remove a plug and lay it(connected to it's lead) on the head and spin the egine over.Can you see a nice fat spark?

[SilverShadow]

So the engine spins over on the starter.You only need fuel and a spark to be in business.Does fuel squirt out of the feed to the fuel rail when you remove the pipe and spin the engine over? Have you a spark at the plugs? Remove a plug and lay it(connected to it's lead) on the head and spin the egine over.Can you see a nice fat spark?

OK got the car cranking now by connecting the live from the battery direct to the starter motor as well as the coil direct to the live from the battery.

But its still not firing up. i dissconnected to fuel line from the fuel pressure regulator and the fuel line but the is no fuel when being cranked?????

Any ideas?

[SilverShadow]

OK just come in, had enough of it!

OK basically same as above but i also by passed the fuel pump at the rely. but found out that im not getting any spark from the plugs.

I used my mates coil still had the same problem so im assuming my coil is fine.

anyone know why there is no spark and why i need to by pass the coil by connected to the battery?

Any help would be much apprieciated.

[bss325i]

DME relay?

[SilverShadow]

DME relay?

DME Relay? whats that and where is that loacted??

Thanks

[e30topless]

have you disturbed the immobiliser/alarm wires? and is the plug under the inlet connected securely ?

[SilverShadow]

Immobilser and alarm is still working the way they should. i turned the alarm off when i was trying to start.

The loom connector under the inlet is connected fine.

What a dme relay?

[Speedtouch]

DME = Digital Management Electronics - the relay that feeds the ECU, usually white in colour.

[SilverShadow]

DME = Digital Management Electronics - the relay that feeds the ECU, usually white in colour.

Where is that loacted, in the engine bay?

[Speedtouch]

Either in the fuse box or behind the coolant expansion tank, beneath an L-shaped black plastic cover. Orange relay under here is the Fuel pump relay.

[SilverShadow]

I swapped all the relays in the l shaped black plastic cover with my friends 325?

[Speedtouch]

I'd suggest you check that a positive feed is getting to the appropriate pin on the ECU (by using either a multimeter or test lamp), and that it is earthed correctly.

There's a 55-pin connector wiring diagram here
http://www.autolib.diakom.ru/CARS2/

Click BMW tag in left margin, then 3rd option down, then 2nd option down (Mitchell On Demand) then select age of your car and model and WIRING DIAGRAMS then select appropriate diagram.

[SilverShadow]

I'd suggest you check that a positive feed is getting to the appropriate pin on the ECU (by using either a multimeter or test lamp), and that it is earthed correctly.

Speedtouch really appriciate you help.


Do you know exactly what pin to check on the ecu plug?

thanks

[Speedtouch]

No worries. I believe it's pin 18 for +12V from battery (red wire) and pin 37 for +12V power input from the DME relay, a Red-Blue wire.

[secondtimelucky]

i had this with my swap to a b20 lump, not sure of the exact details but it was to do with one simple wire that comes from the steering coloumn wiring across the back of the bulkhead then into one of the plugs behind the glovebox, it may jog some peoples memory this evenng, if not il check wire colour/exact location tomorrow for you

[Speedtouch]

This thread?
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... highlight=

[SilverShadow]

This thread?
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... highlight=

oooo that sounds promising..... I'll check this out when i get home from work tonight!

Will update you guys!

[daimlerman]

Seem to remember that you were re-furbing your engine bay whilst the engine was out,have a good think about what you may have disturbed or perhaps not put back correctly.Seems to me that you have perhaps mis placed a vital feed wire somewhere,one of those 'does this go here or here,' moments?

[SilverShadow]

I understand what you mean, i did re-paint the engine bay again and made sure that the earthing points were sanded down to the metal work. i do feel that the wiring loom is very simple in this engine, and im 90% sure that i have wired up everything in the right place.

There is the wiring loom for the front lights that i have connected up again (including the brown earth wire) that comes out of the fuse box - would that cuase any problems?

I think i need i may need to be a be more specifc, im thinking of disconnecting everything, take pics and post up where i have connected the wires to?

[daimlerman]

This kind of problem normaly turns out to be something silly rather than something expensive,hence my suggestion that you check carefully anything that you may have disturbed.I noted that whilst I had the starter motor off one of my cars that a lot of the electrical bits and bobs stopped working,for example.So I would start at the starter motor connections,check that current is passing correctly etc.Then work through everything that has been disturbed.You think you have problems,wait until Simon13 comes to put his wiring harness back in that alpina!!

[SilverShadow]

Guy good news!!!!!

I got the dash lights working now, there was plug of wires under the steering column that looked a bit loose.



but i turned the key and still nothing, i didnt even crank. I used pins 11 and 14 in the diagnostic plug and it cranks but does not fire up (start up)???? THIS IS THE MAIN PROBLEM NOW:

Below are some pics of the wire that i have done, can you guys spot anything dodge?

Below is the ecu plug that is connected, however the 2 wires on the side are not? are they supposed to be connected some where?



also there is a yellow wire that is just hanging there under the steering column is this the wire what ''secondtimelucky'' quoted?? where is this supposed to go?



below is the postive that i have connected:



below is the negative that i have connected



and the coil



also the earth from the sump is connected to the chassis

so basically when i turn the key there is nothing, it doesnt crank? but does crank from the diagnostic plug pins 11 and 14

[SilverShadow]

OK boys and gals, i got the mother started!!!!!!!

didnt do nothing apart from starting it from to the diagnostic plug, by connecting a wire between pins 11 and 14!!!

Sounded sweet!

However it does not start from when the key is turned, does that mean that the starter motor needs replacing???

please can someone confirm this and put a stop to my missery!

Thanks for inadvance.

[daimlerman]

Now you have swapped the ECU for the one that came with the engine? Did the entire engine loom get swapped?

[SilverShadow]

Yep i used the original engine loom and ecu that came with the engine.

Do you know whether the above is cuaed by the starter motor now?

[tristan325]

Not the staerter motor or it wouldn't start from the diagnostic plug. It's gonna be a wiring issue my man!

[SilverShadow]

is it?

I remeber a few years back when i had my old 320 lump i had a similar problem, everything worked but the when i turned the key the starter would turn, so i took it to an auto electrician and he connected a relay on to the starter motor and it was still on there when i pulled that lump out. he said somthing that becuase its an old car the wireing loom does'nt send the correct voltage anymore and this relay acts like a switch?

would i need to do somthing like this again?

[secondtimelucky]

That single yellow wire you show in the pics, if its the one i was referring to it should plug into the terminal block in the steering coloumn. Its difficult to spot as its only one plug and took me a couple of looks at the terminal block before i spotted it

[SilverShadow]

yeah its a yellow and black wire!

Cool thats the first thing i will cehck when i get home from work! where abouts should it be connected?