318is/325sport - If 318is then how to get 190bhp

[tommtb]

Hi everyone Im torn between a 325i Sport Tech1 and a really nice 318is with some extra power.

Ive seen people talking about the 318is and i think if i got one i would want some more power, maybe upto 190bhp. How hard is this to do, ive known 205s with 16v engines and carbs at around 190 so is it easy with the 318??? Also costs

The only reason for doubting the Sport is the rust problems ive seen on here, they all seem to have them from the kits. If i bought a sport i would be spending to my limit so if i then found a load of rust i would be stuck. How much are arches to replace and the worst parts?

Ive seen a sport i like the look of so am leaning towards that, but also some 318is' in white that have inspired me...

Will end up with around 2500-3000 to spend

sorry if youve been through all this before but couldnt find a definate answer on the search and im a real newbie.

Cheers

[oakey]

You will not get an is close to 190bhp without ALOT of cash spendage. With a 325 it is much more feasable

[Mtech327]

Sport all the way, its worth it for the 6cyl noise and power alone, and power upgrades are reasonably in-expensive. Plus your starting off with 170 bhp if the car is fighting fit

The tech 1 team is growing

[Fushion_Julz]

Hmmm....

It isn't too hard to get over 190bhp from an M10, though....

Naturally aspirated on either 45DCOE or 50DCO carbs, or on slide throttle mechanical injection.
Big valve head, a fairly wild cam and a custom distributor advance...Balance and lighten the bottom end with Mahle forged pistons...
Tubular manifold and decent exhaust...

But it is *much* cheaper to get that from an M20 325 motor...

My standard engine with a Chipped UK chip and Magnex exhaust gives 189bhp

[Loony]

A 318is is supposed to have pushed out around 140 bhp when it was brand new.Fast forward 17 years and a 100.000 miles and its probably going to produce around 110bhp.So you would be looking at trying to get 80 bhp out of the engine which would not be cheap or easy.

[madaboutthe30]

With that budget I would go for the 325i Tech sport.

Rust is an issue on all e30s.... The money your going to spend purchasing the 318is to bring it to that bhp, you could easily just purchase the 325i with a few tweeks.

[hoshy]

A 318is is supposed to have pushed out around 140 bhp when it was brand new.Fast forward 17 years and a 100.000 miles and its probably going to produce around 110bhp.So you would be looking at trying to get 80 bhp out of the engine which would not be cheap or easy.

It would have to be seriously wrong to be down 30ponies.

Mine is by no means a good example and it's on about 120k but still makes its stock power.

[Mtech327]

Stoke power? is it steam powered lol

[hoshy]

Tom - 2500-3000 will get you a pretty reasonable sport but won't leave you anything to modify it. So ask yourself a few questions:

Do you want to modify the car yourself for the fun? Or do you want stock power to be nearer to what you want "out of the box" ?

Do you want 6pot noise and torque, or do you want a revy little monster modified to make loads of peak power in the upper rpms?

2500-3000 will get you a pretty reasonable sport if you look but won't leave you any funds to play
2000 will get you a lovely iS with 1500 pounds worth of mods and depending on how you mod it - much better fuel eco than the 2.5. Of course you loose out on the 6pot niceness

(fwiv - I'm an iS owner)

edit: Having said that I doubt if you could SAFELY get 190 from an iS for 1500 but it would be interesting to see what you can get from wild cams and a standalone management system - those two mods would easily be done for 1500 but even if it did get you to 190 it probably wouldn't last long. Perhaps something like 175 would be a better target on the iS engine - but remember that it's pretty low geared so a 175brake iS with a stock and 7200redline would see off a sport without too much difficulty imho.

Maybe some of the guys who've actually tuned the m42 and similar engine could comment on if you could get 175ish safely from cams and standalone????

[Kedge]

Tech 1 sport all day long, and thats coming from a 318iS owner.

For the money your looking to spend you should be able to find a nice solid one, check out the for sale section as Ant is selling a nice one! The 318iS would be a safer bet is rust is a major worry but i'd love a Tech 1 sport!

To get 190bhp out of the 318iS is going to cost a lot as you'll realistically need new cams, ITBs and standalone management at least although i am planning on tuning mine just to be a bit different around here.

However there is probably more chance that the 318iS will still be pushing out it original performance, everyone i've seen rolling round results for has hit factory figures at worst whereas as the M20 seems to suffer slighty worse if its not been maintained well enough but a good one will still be going well.

[hoshy]

Stoke power? is it steam powered lol

oops.

Edited.

[hammoj28]

Actually, its seems that the 318iS is extremely good at holding its power. There was a dyno run in TBMW a wee while back and most standard ones were kicking out 140 or more.

[hoshy]

Yeah - When I said that mine made stock power it was actually reading out at 144bhp@the fly a little over, like most seem to.

[hammoj28]

I love the 318iS, but they will never be that fast unless you spend a lot of money on them. And a 318iS with 190bhp would be an amzing amount of fun and grin factor.

However, i would say if you dont mind getting your hands dirty, forget the m20 and the m42.

Find a nice shell, buy an m50 and lump that in. Its not a complicated conversion and they are 190bhp stock plus they rev properly and have the right number of cams.

[JohnnyBlazE]

I'm looking for 160-170 from my 318is not too much more...

[nadz325i]

i had a 325i sport dynoed at 190bhp, was awesome, grunt all over the revs and was a hoot to drive! against a standard 325i left it for dead through the gears!

I had a dastek unichip and maf, removed this with just a schrick cam, bbr chip and still through the gears was quicker through the gears than a standard 325i,

down side - its expensive!you need deep pockets.

as above get a good shell and do a m50/52 conversion, not sure on cost but if i was to do it again i would take this route, silky smooth 6 pot, good on fuel and i belive tunable,, but dont quote me on this.
and its 24V!!! 12v more than the m20.

edit
one for the 4 pot crew
on the handling stakes the 4 pot up front is awesome, good fun and well balanced (engine behind the struts)! well this comes from the e30 m3 and the e36 318is so not sure if it counts with the e30 318is, but users from here will give you there opinions.

[agreen]

A 318is is supposed to have pushed out around 140 bhp when it was brand new.Fast forward 17 years and a 100.000 miles and its probably going to produce around 110bhp

ERR You need to get out of the its 17 years old its done 100,00 miles mindset , when i had my 318is rolling roaded it produced More than stock horsepower completly standard !

However rember whe tunning these the power band is aready quite high up the rev range adding a really wild cam will only increase this ad push it furthur up the rev range depending on how wild you go pocket the pistons etc you may end up with a dead bottom end then a turbo like boost when it comes on cam at say 4 grand !

Just something to think about to get wild cams well really wild you will need mechanical lifters, stiffer spring uprated retainers , pocketed pistons etc ,

id go for say 160 -170 bhp ish with just mild cams a remap and maybe uprated valve springs just an idea

hth

[tommtb]

Thanks for all the answers so far

Seems like i was overstretching myself with the 190bhp ask, as far as money and knowledge goes, but cheers for all the ideas.
An engine transplant might be a bit far fetched as ive got limited mechanical knowledge, ive done a transplant on a 309gti with a good mate, but he knows them like the back of his hand and did all the work.

How much am i looking at to get the 318is to 170hp, or in other words to the same 0-60 as a Sport?

I suppose if i bought a sport with no obvious signs of rust i could just leave it and drive it, then check it out when ive saved some more cash..

Out of interest how much would it cose to get the sport upto 190 instead, as i know there isnt much weight difference between the IS and Sport?

I quite like the simple look of the IS is all, so might have to experiment with the Sport styling.

[agreen]

visit www,m42club.com there is post in the engine rebiuld upgrade section buy a guy called treeside there , should answer all you questions about bhp for £Â£Ã‚£ me thinks if not use the search on there very good site for 318is m42 engines

[Fushion_Julz]

You could get a 325i (sport or not...they have the same engines) to 190bhp for <£1000

Not sure on the M42 engine (318is), but it is worth noting that, other than the mid 90s E36 318, BMW always chose either the S14 or the M20/M30 engines to tune. Obviously anything is possible, but you may need more modifications than is reasonable to get 190bhp from that motor (solid lifters, pocketed pistons, etc...)

If you want a 4 cyl car with 190+bhp then either look to source an S14 from either an M3 (2.3 or 2.5) or a 320is (2.0) as the lowest powered of these produces around 190bhp as standard...
Or go with the 8valve M10...there is a huge amount of knowledge and parts for these and they are (relatively) cheap to tune to 190bhp...

I reckon you could get a decent S14 motor for around £1.5-2K s/h
The M10 to 190bhp level on carbs would cost around £3.5K, I reckon

[agreen]

but it is worth noting that, other than the mid 90s E36 318, BMW always chose either the S14 or the M20/M30 engines to tune

what about the s42 300bhp or summat like that

http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthrea ... 2+pictures

and look at it

s14 WHat !

[Fushion_Julz]

S42 bears as much resemblance to the M42 as an S14 does to an M10!!

You can't begin to think of the cost of one of those motors....25k+ easily...and they are *racing* engines designed to have a life measured in 100s of miles...

The S42 was motorsports development of the M42 and produced roughly the same amount of power as the S14 it replaced...well, roughly...The S14 produced upto around 340bhp, albeit from 2.5litres...The final incarnation of the S14 (as used in the 1991 BTCC winning M3) was 2litres and produced about 300bhp

The S42 was 1990cc, too...

It is just not viable to run one of these in a road car...

[agreen]

|Yeh but i would like to try lol

[tommtb]

My standard engine with a Chipped UK chip and Magnex exhaust gives 189bhp

How much to do that???

Also how much would an M50 engine cost to pick up, id imagine gearbox included?
Then a relatively simple conversion is probably too complicated for me right now lol.

How much are a set of more exciting cams on a 325 going to give you in power and take away in cash?

Looking like im leaning towards a Sport with some tweaks and wheels.
Or a 318is with a transplant, might have to buy my mate a beer or 20 to get that done tho.

[Fushion_Julz]

My standard engine with a Chipped UK chip and Magnex exhaust gives 189bhp

How much to do that???

Well, my exhaust was a s/h job...got for £100, plus about £20 in new sleeves and hangers...

The chip was £70 (IIRC) at the time I was donated that by Jayson...

But even if you had to buy an exhaust (say £350) and a chip at even double the cost (£150), then £500 should see a reasonable figure close to your 190bhp goal...

I have to say my M20 was/is a particularly good example and it is well looked after...even prior to the mods it was producing 174bhp

[hoshy]

My standard engine with a Chipped UK chip and Magnex exhaust gives 189bhp

How much to do that???

Well, my exhaust was a s/h job...got for £100, plus about £20 in new sleeves and hangers...

The chip was £70 (IIRC) at the time I was donated that by Jayson...

But even if you had to buy an exhaust (say £350) and a chip at even double the cost (£150), then £500 should see a reasonable figure close to your 190bhp goal...

I have to say my M20 was/is a particularly good example and it is well looked after...even prior to the mods it was producing 174bhp

That's rather impressive. Can you get us some proof??

(but start another thread rather than discuss here)

[Fushion_Julz]

No documented proof, unfortunately...

However, a couple of yeras ago I had the car on the rollers at the (now defunct) Red Line Tuning and those figures came from there...

Perhaps I'll take it along (in preference to the M3) to the next rolling road session somewhere close and get a print out...

[hoshy]

shame. it's always hard to believe claims like 49bhp from a chip and exhaust - esp when the stock exhaust and manifold is so good on the iS. Perhaps the car had cams before you got it, or maybe redline went of business because they had a wildly inaccurate dyno

[Fushion_Julz]

I wasn't claiming 49bhp!!

The chip improved the flywheel figure from 174bhp to 189bhp...

I can't claim to know what (if anything) the exhaust contributed cos that went on before the chip was done and wasn't tested seperately.

[hoshy]

Sorry mate - I thought that you said that the chip took you to 189 from stock... let me read your post again

[hoshy]

Oh yeah Now I read back I mis-understood. Thought you were talking about an iS enigne but you're on about a m20b25



sorry dude.

[Fushion_Julz]

NP...

I was kinda on topic (originally) as I was answering the 318is/325 question by saying that it isn't hard to get 190bhp from an M20, but haven't seen many (if any) M42s (not S42s) producing that kinda power, although it is doubtless possible if your pocket is deep enough.

[hoshy]

Yeah - sounds reasonable indeed.

Is your engine an early, higher comp one? And does anybody know if the tech1 sports came with the early or late engine? maybe it's relevant to tom's decision?

[oakey]

Just get a decent tech1 sport and get ms fitted and you wont be far off 190bhp I'm sure! My tech1 will be for sale in a week or so (and It will be well under your budget)

[Fushion_Julz]

Yeah - sounds reasonable indeed.

Is your engine an early, higher comp one? And does anybody know if the tech1 sports came with the early or late engine? maybe it's relevant to tom's decision?

My engine is the original (AFAIK) motor in a 1988 facelift car...so a later type.
However, it has been well looked after...