any decent power figures from 318is?

[e30bmlover]

at the end of the day if you like the 4 pot get a 4 pot........ if you like torque........ get a six pot. tim_s has achived good results with his 2.1 conversion 183bhp, 162ft/lbs so decent power can be achived with them.
treeseries... why are you comparing a tuned car to a standard car? pointless in my eyes. the fact that a tuned i.s will be as quick as a standard b25 is a no brainer(minus the torque of course) but why should the b25 be standard? surely if you are on about tuning the i.s the b25 should be tuned also.... so you are playing catch up all the time.... everyone knows you dont buy a six cylinder bmw for fuel economy

[tim_s]

at the end of the day if you like the 4 pot get a 4 pot........ if you like torque........ get a six pot. tim_s has achived good results with his 2.1 conversion 183bhp, 162ft/lbs so decent power can be achived with them.
treeseries... why are you comparing a tuned car to a standard car? pointless in my eyes. the fact that a tuned i.s will be as quick as a standard b25 is a no brainer(minus the torque of course) but why should the b25 be standard? surely if you are on about tuning the i.s the b25 should be tuned also.... so you are playing catch up all the time.... everyone knows you dont buy a six cylinder bmw for fuel economy

fuck me, a sensible post I almost agree

The minus the torque bit is not always true though. comparing mine to yours, I make the same torque and power as you up to 4k, then above there the power climbs more dramatically on mine (plus obv I can rev to 7k without the power dropping off so have a much wider power band). And that's comparing figures from the same type of dyno (dastek), which is pretty cool. And yes, I get better fuel economy and its a lighter smaller engine etc.

I must admit that a run up through cheddar etc in my mate's new standard IS reminded me just how much fun the standard IS is, the fact that you have to use the revs just makes it more fun imo!

[Ziggy]

Seeing as this thread's about tuning the iS, there's really no need to regurgitate the old 6pot vs 4pot arguements - how 'bout keeping it on topic?

[Kedge]

Never does happen though does it jon

Personally i'd put more effort into the handling 1st, for me thats just as enjoyable and keeps up the longitivity of the car. Only now am i seriously looking at increasing power after uprating suspension and steering.

[fuzzy]

fuzzy ..... what side of the arguement are you on?

im on what ever side winds up the 1.8 owners the most

[c2pete]

fuzzy ..... what side of the arguement are you on?

im on what ever side winds up the 1.8 owners the most

that'll be your own side judging by earlier on in this thread then as you did a fair old job winding up treeseries,pretty rich coming from you a four pot owner

[fuzzy]

fuzzy ..... what side of the arguement are you on?

im on what ever side winds up the 1.8 owners the most

that'll be your own side judging by earlier on in this thread then as you did a fair old job winding up treeseries,pretty rich coming from you a four pot owner

yes but mine is a decent high powered 4 pot

[c2pete]

im on what ever side winds up the 1.8 owners the most

that'll be your own side judging by earlier on in this thread then as you did a fair old job winding up treeseries,pretty rich coming from you a four pot owner

yes but mine is a decent high powered 4 pot

aye and mine is a decent powered 4 door,but still a 4 door

[fuzzy]

nothing wrong with 4 doors. i prefer 4 doors to allow easy entry for my children.

[c2pete]

nothing wrong with 4 doors. i prefer 4 doors to allow easy entry for my children.

how the fook did i miss in your sig that you have a touring,realistically though you should be able to get 170 bhp out of a 1.8 is as it is a 16 valve engine, will cost a bit though,anything over that n/a and you will need a remortgage on your house
you could probably do a decent turbo conversion for the price of 170 bhp n/a though,know where my money would be going vvvvvrrrrrmmmmm pppppppttttttsssshhhhh

[Jon_Bmw]

For the topic title of "Any decent power figures from a 318is"

Err As if. No one really seems to tune these engines properly do they?

Take for example a 1.9 mi16 engine or an XE engine. These are seen on a regular basis at over 200bhp. 250bhp is not unheard of on either, especially the XE. Alright so the XE engine has 200cc more, but the mi16 is only up 100cc. I have never understood why people don't go overboard on the m42 engine, I can only presume its crap?

I'm sure someone is going to mention the s42 soon, but this was race teams making these engines, not joe bloggs in his shed on a sunday. I just can't understand why no one tunes them up properly....


...That is until you look at the s14 2.0 or 2.3 or just putting a 2.5/2.7 m20 or m50 in it. The 318is is pretty much redundant in the tuning market in my opinion. Sure its ok as a daily hack, but you are pretty much flogging a dead horse trying to eek out HP from it when other engine choices are 10 times easier?

[e30bmlover]

fuzzy ..... what side of the arguement are you on?

im on what ever side winds up the 1.8 owners the most

[fuzzy]

i only wanted to know of some mods to do to my car to get it a bit quicker or more responsive but the children of the site lowered the tone again.

ive said it before and ill say it again .get rid of the little engine and put a bigger engine in to start with
why do people ask this question? have they had their heads in the sand for years and not noted any of the usual tried and tested routes of minor tuning for all cars such as chips, exhausts,air filters etc or are they expecting some sort of new wonder product to be put before them that is their car specific and therefore previously unknown?

[tim_s]

For the topic title of "Any decent power figures from a 318is"

Err As if. No one really seems to tune these engines properly do they?

Take for example a 1.9 mi16 engine or an XE engine. These are seen on a regular basis at over 200bhp. 250bhp is not unheard of on either, especially the XE. Alright so the XE engine has 200cc more, but the mi16 is only up 100cc. I have never understood why people don't go overboard on the m42 engine, I can only presume its crap?

I'm sure someone is going to mention the s42 soon, but this was race teams making these engines, not joe bloggs in his shed on a sunday. I just can't understand why no one tunes them up properly....


...That is until you look at the s14 2.0 or 2.3 or just putting a 2.5/2.7 m20 or m50 in it. The 318is is pretty much redundant in the tuning market in my opinion. Sure its ok as a daily hack, but you are pretty much flogging a dead horse trying to eek out HP from it when other engine choices are 10 times easier?

you should say no-one tunes these properly on the zone. There are plenty of 200bhp+ NA cars out there, just cos they're not on the zone doesn't mean they don't exist. there are also several silly power turbos out there making anywhere between 250-500bhp.
but yeah, that the m42 is a bit neglected in the tuning stakes partly because of the other engine options like you say - also economy, cost to buy/run are some of the reasons people buy the IS in the first place so I guess spending money making and making the economy worse aren't high on the agenda. I'd do more to mine but you've hit the nail on the head, it's a daily hack so for instance my TBs are sat in my garage doing f all, though i should have a wilder inlet cam and a few odds and sods on before a ring trip in april to try to get the 200hp while keeping it daily driveable and giving good economy.

The m42 isn't crap against other 4 pot 16v engines, actually stacks up really well, has a well designed inlet, head with decent sized valves and flows well, timing chain and a strong bottom end out of the box - it does have good potential. I think that the lack of products and info out there is another of the reasons the IS isn't tuned very much. bit sad really as has loads of potential to make good power as an NA and as a turbo engine.

[tim_s]

The 318is is pretty much redundant in the tuning market in my opinion. Sure its ok as a daily hack, but you are pretty much flogging a dead horse trying to eek out HP from it when other engine choices are 10 times easier?

OK, but mine does 180+bhp, revs to 7k, has the same power/torque as a high CR freshly rebuilt m20 2.5 under 4k (above this point it makes more), and does 200 miles on £15 of LPG on a run. what other e30 engine could deliver the same? S14 is prob the only (old BM engine) contender, but might struggle on the economy front. As a bonus the m42 is the lightest of the bunch and the most modern/reliable, also even with mods remains really cheap to insure.

[e30bmlover]

i wouldnt say freshly rebuilt as the head wasnt decked... im yet to sort out the slight hesitation on cylinder no2... found this out when i had the compression test and static tune.... he reckons it could be a lead or a plug.

[tim_s]

lol whatever! wasn't really about your engine in particular, just making the point. tbh mine with a few bits shoudl make 200bhp, if i could be arsed to pull my finger out.

actually wasn't there a whole host of stuff you didn't do on your rebuild - like valves/guides/seats/regrind etc?

[e30bmlover]

if i could get mine to 190 i will be happy.... anymore and i will be seeing ant for the supercharger. go for the 200bhp mark if you can do the work yourself you can save a fortune..... unfortunately i cannot. anyone got any idea why my no2 spark is short?
the valves were cleaned and re seated... i am thinking about taking the head off and getting it decked now.

[Jon_Bmw]

Tim you pretty much said what I was expecting. I am not suprised to hear that these 200bhp? cars exist, its just there isn't many of them is there? Its strange that no one(generalisation) buggers about with them in the same way people do with mi16's and XE engines. There is a set method to get 'off the shelf' power out of those 2 engines, but nothing for the m42. I can only think that its relation to the s14 is too close for companies to make tuning products for both engines. Lets face it, companies are always going to want to get a 215bhp engine up to 250 rather than a 136 one up to 180.

I like the m42, it is a fundamentally better engine than the m20 in terms of 'valvage,' output per cc and racing/weight pedigree. But lets not forget it is down on power on an m20 simply because it has 700cc less! The easy option always has been to drop a bigger engine in, always will be I feel. When I said another engine is 10 times better, clearly a huge exageration.

I still see the m42 as something to tinker around with, have some fun with, but I don't see the point of chasing big numbers with it when an s14 would be a better starting point. Out of interest, if I had an e30 that I would want to go fast, it would be s14 or a 24v 6 cylinder engine. There is just no point starting with one that is slightly behind(the s14) if that makes sense? IMO obviously.

By the way I drive an m42 everyday.

[tim_s]

no, i do agree dude. just depends what you want - if I wanted a big power engine I sure as hell wouldn't start with an M42 either (unless going for a crazy FI project)! They do make a nice engine in an e30 though, esp as daily hack/occasional track engine, and do warrant modding. There's actually loads of good and cheap ways to get more power out of them.
in my situation, an m20 would have been much more boring a project (and they're a bit rubbish compared to more modern engines), and if I'd done an S14 it would have also been buying trouble imo with my budget, as I wouldn't have been able to afford a rebuild etc, would have been less fun as I'd just be dropping an engine in. I'd also spend half my life fixing it, and be setting tappets every 5 mins, and the insurance quotes i had on them were well expensive to boot. I was tempted to do an m52 in mine (I really like those engines, my bro has a 328 sport, my old man a 323 tourer) but that would have been more boring too. and basically, the 2.1 is fucking great, I'm well chuffed with it! shame I cna't run TBs and wild cams daily, cos if I was making 220bhp or so as would be the case, it'd be more impressive (even if worse for me to live with around london and up and down the m4 every week!).

[maxfield]

Why would you always be repairing an S14?

[tim_s]

cos for what they go for, within my budget it would be a 20 year old engine that i'd have bought out of a write-off versus an m42 which is basically new. plus they simply require more maintenance with more expensive bits than an m42 anyway.

[pacerpete]

cos for what they go for, within my budget it would be a 20 year old engine that i'd have bought out of a write-off versus an m42 which is basically new. plus they simply require more maintenance with more expensive bits than an m42 anyway.

Come on Tim, tell us how much your 183 shetlands have really cost you ?

[oakey]

What about the honda b16a engine. 160 odd bhp standard from a 1.6 16v in 1990 with great economy Compared to bmw's 1.8 16v with 135bhp. I think bmw could have done better.

[tim_s]

yeah that's a fair point, vtec was ahead of the game. would've been ncie if the m42 had VANOS or variable valve timing of some description.

lol i dunno pete, less than an s14 that's for sure.

[Gussy]

It's pointless comparing them to vtec engines. Vtec rev much, much higher and basically have race cams hence why they produce good power.

107 ft / lbs of torque at about 7300 rpm says it all for me really though.

[oakey]

^ Why is it pointless? Its a 16v engine produced at the same time that is arguably technically better . Even the toyota 16v engines in the celica and mr2 had versions that were over 160bhp.
The main reason I brought the honda engine into it is to show that it must be possible to get 100bhp per litre from an M42.

[maxfield]

The main reason I brought the honda engine into it is to show that it must be possible to get 100bhp per litre from an M42.

It is possible...

[oakey]

The main reason I brought the honda engine into it is to show that it must be possible to get 100bhp per litre from an M42.

It is possible...

I'm sure I just said that maxfield

[maxfield]

I was just confirming what you said

[Jon_Bmw]

cos for what they go for, within my budget it would be a 20 year old engine that i'd have bought out of a write-off versus an m42 which is basically new. plus they simply require more maintenance with more expensive bits than an m42 anyway.

Come on Tim, tell us how much your 183 shetlands have really cost you ?

I wanted to know that too

[ShepsEvo3]

I have a customer with a Honda Del Sol no less... 1600 cc Vtec with cams, Skunk2 manifolds and dare I say it.. Unichip lol, giving over 200bhp. Its ok on idle, just and is pretty smooth on the road. I don't think it would be a nightmare to live with every day. This is where the VTec comes good.

[agreen]

M42's are brilliant Fuck you 6 pot wankers

[tim_s]

lol i don't want to get drawn in to arguing the pros and cons of my engine. anyway, for what it's worth, hopefully the following will help make sense of it.

my engine prob cost somewhere around what e30bmboy has spent on his i'd imagine. it's faster, lighter, more efficient. it's also been more thoroughly rebuilt, but is a custom engine (but built to closer tolerances) so may or may not last as long as a factory one. It's difficult to tally precise cost because it was an ongoing project that I did bits to in stages (for instance I ran motronic and 2.1 with standard head for a long time) and sold a load of spares on from the project, also did a hell of a lot of maintenence and modernising while there, and it's difficult to know what to include (stuff like serpentine belt conversion, coil-on-plug etc). bearing in mind that whatever I was going to run with really i needed to do some sort of rebuild on it before throwing it in (given the mileage i cover and reliability i require), the m42 has proved a cheap option.
I've done 30k on it since it was built summer 2006, had i dropped in an m20 and ran it on lpg i would undoubtedly still be down getting on for a grand or so on fuel costs (not done any sums, jsut a guess).
actually my engine on LPG versus an m20 on petrol over 30000 miles at current prices is a difference of £3k - £2.5k fuel for mine, £5,5k for the m20. That's assuming 28mpg for mine on gas and 26mpg for the m20 on fuel.
On track days and on the road mine has surprised me and proved a good tool, at brands last month there wasn't much to choose between it and a z4 3l.
the engine is pretty driveable day to day (although my megasquirt map is not qutie as good as factory), it pulls stronger than a 320is - check the torque figures (squarer larger capacity engine, narrower inlet, longer stroke with heavy forged crank etc means higher peak torque), if a few hp down and not able to rev quite so high. hopefully when i get a slightly stronger inlet cam in there it will exceed 320is power figures, while pulling stronger and being easier to use daily, all the while being a lighter and more efficient engine.

i'm not suggesting that everyone rushes out and builds m42s, but the naysayers have to bear in mind that for some people, like myself, it's a good option. It's also been the most interesting (non FI) project I could have done without spending silly money. I mean sure I could have dropped in another standard BM engine, but where's the fun in that? mine's way more unique and was much more of a challenge to build.

a 24v conversion would have gone quicker and prob cost the same, but as demonstrated by my brother throwing in £17 to his 328 to do 150 miles today when i put in £11, the performance is not the whole story, not to mention having to run horrible brake servos and putting more weight past the front struts etc.

[tim_s]

I have a customer with a Honda Del Sol no less... 1600 cc Vtec with cams, Skunk2 manifolds and dare I say it.. Unichip lol, giving over 200bhp. Its ok on idle, just and is pretty smooth on the road. I don't think it would be a nightmare to live with every day. This is where the VTec comes good.

yeah but at the end of the day it's still a Honda Del Sol int it Paul