E30 Zone

I'm looking for some advice on the coil wiring, I am currently in the process of fitting a sequential gearbox to my S50 rally car and have a geartronics flatshift system to go with it. The flatshift system basically cuts engine power whilst a shift is in progress allowing you the fastest possible upchange without using the clutch or backing off the throttle. This is done by tapping into the feed to the coils. On something like a vauxhall engine running aftermarket management this would be simple, however i dont know where to start with the S50. Ii am hoping there is a positive feed for the injectors that is common to all of them.

What I need to know is which wire this feed is and whether the sudden loss of power (around 60ms at a time) is likely to upset the ecu and potentially throw fault codes every I change gear!

Any help and advice greatly appreciated.

I can see the ECU logging fault codes but whether it drops into limp mode or not I wouldnt like to guess. The common feed is ignition to the coils

Common feed to the coils is the green wire.

On a side note, we supply Geartronics with their flatshift boxes. I probably put the holes in the end plates personally.

Ian.

Thanks Ian, I wont ask how much the manufacturing cost is then lol

What is your opinion on whether it will go into limp mode and whn you say the green wire, do you mean on the x20 plug?

martinpallot wrote:What is your opinion on whether it will go into limp mode and whn you say the green wire, do you mean on the x20 plug?

Really can't say for sure. It'll almost certaily log the misfire, but an intermittent fault may not drop it into limp mode.

Yes, the green power feed to the coils does pass through the X20 connector - pin 21. It also feeds 12v to pin 56 of the ECU, so you may not want to interupt it at the X20. I would suggest tracing all the green wires from the coils back to the common splice in the loom and isolate them from the ECU feed before you connect the flatshift.

Ian.

Hi,

The Guys behind the E36 Compacts that
ran S14' with Drenth DG400's tried this
this set up for their Tarmac Rally Cars and
had no end of problems.

They were even running aftermarket ECU's
and had many issues.

The Sales Guy at Drenth at the time, Pascal Kempermen
then left Drenth to complete the R&D work on
a system that was originally designed around the
Drenth DG 400.

I do not know where it all went after that.

If I recall, the Geartronics system was originally
designed for sequential G/Boxes on Motor Bikes where
the pressure required to change gear is nowhere as
great as for Car SQ G/boxes, and the issues were
I think related to fact that on a Rally car set up,
wheel spin v engine speed v over rev was causing
issues on the flat shift.

You should try and contact somebody like Harry Hockley
or Tim Mason of TIMM.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Just to clarify, what you appear to be talking about above is a paddleshift system, the flatshift is straighforward, the paddleshift should be in theory but becomes complicated on downchanges due to variances in throttle response for the autoblip that is necesary to make the dogs mesh properly.

Having spoken to Drenth and read copies of their manuals, the drenth flatshift system is incorporated into the shift indicator and is a very simple open loop system as opposed to the closed loop system that geartronics one offers. I am comfortable that it will work, provided that the ecu doesnt decide that its not playing ball after detecting the purposely induced misfire.

Hi,

The Drenth 'Flatshift' is only
on the upshift, there is no
flatshift in coming back down the
box.

Drenth started to design a 'Paddle System'
which is what Pascal Kempermen took
on when leaving Drenth.

I do not think you will obtain satisfactory
results with an aftermarket ECU let alone
with the Siemams DME MSS 5O.

Please prove me wrong as I wanted to fit
something along these lines for the Drenth
that was in my E3O M3 which runs a S54 with Motec
M880 ECU, I had the standard Drenth Flat shift
on the up, but wanted paddles, but the advice
from those with better
understandings of it all than me, was that it
would not work satisfactorily.

All the theory on paper etc says it should,
but in the real world I was offered a system
that was about 5k, which with the price of the
Drenth made it stupid.

Will watch your progress with interest.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Im not sure if you're not undertsnding me or if im misunderstanding you? All I want is the upshift throttle cut, I'm not interested in paddles or clutchless downshifts. As you say the price for decent paddleshift system is around 6k once it has been set up properly and I think it kind of ruins the driving exprience.

Hi,

I was a little at cross purposes.

Not sure what you require will work
without going to a Stand alone ECU, or
maybe Uwe's colleague can 're- flash'
the MSS 50 for your configuration and
functionailty.

Would be worth asking him.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

GermanGorilla wrote:Hi,

I was a little at cross purposes.

Not sure what you require will work
without going to a Stand alone ECU, or
maybe Uwe's colleague can 're- flash'
the MSS 50 for your configuration and
functionailty.

Would be worth asking him.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

He is on holiday.