Jai's S50B32 swap thread... MOT Passed!!!!!!

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ian332isport
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Fri May 16, 2008 8:37 pm

jaistanley wrote:Aaah.. so the accessory (p/steering, alternator, water pump) belt is only tensioned off of the springy tensioner?
Yaaarp 8)
Is it much of a pain in the arse to remove the oil filter housing thingy?
Naaarp :)
I need to find myself a torque wrench that can do the lower values accurately (for things like the VANOS cover plate bolts at 8 Nm etc).
I've got a nice little Britool one that goes down to 5 Nm.

Cheers,

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jaistanley
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Fri May 16, 2008 9:56 pm

My clarke ones aren't up to much, but they were cheap. The 1/2" one is OK, but the 3/8" (which I bought for things like this) is cack.

Dan, hurry up and get your sh!t back to Essex. I'll give you a hand shimming that car of yours if you get yer arse over here and gimme a hand with mine too... And make your sister ask me out.
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Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:43 am

Right.

Project S50 might be getting a rush finish. I have one month to get it sorted before I get a new job and move.

Time to start ordering parts and getting the sodding thing moving.

Rang BTB. The remainder of the exhaust will be £980 plus the VAT!!!! Ouch. Going to get the Supersprint rear box and get a centre box/section made up locally I think.

MASSIVE list of to-do's so this thread should (hopefully) be nice and active again! Whoop whoop.

Jai
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Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:51 am

jaistanley wrote:Right.

Project S50 might be getting a rush finish. I have one month to get it sorted before I get a new job and move.

Time to start ordering parts and getting the sodding thing moving.

Rang BTB. The remainder of the exhaust will be £980 plus the VAT!!!! Ouch. Going to get the Supersprint rear box and get a centre box/section made up locally I think.

MASSIVE list of to-do's so this thread should (hopefully) be nice and active again! Whoop whoop.

Jai
:cool: Look forward to seeing the progress!
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Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:35 pm

Get stuck in Jai :D

Back to the sump thing, ive stripped a few E34's over the last few months, 2 litres have the tray, 2.5's dont from what ive seen. All the 2 litre sumps ive had dont have a level sender, but all the 2.5's do
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Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:18 am

Only a little progress but I'm gaining momentum.

Got all the braking linkage sorted and fitted today (upside down in a sodding footweel for ages), plumbed the clutch hydraulics with kunifer pipe and removed the redundant bracket for the E30 airbox. Fitted the maual pedal box using the cage from my car and the pedals from the breakers as it was shinier.

Ordered the clutch release bearing and got a price for a new clutch master cylinder (i'll try this second hand one out first). With the release bearing fitted the engine can marry to the box and they can be dropped in! YEY.

Picking up a very tasty bonnet on Sat, though it's going to make my car even more similar to Johnnos. Lame!

Got an M20 oil cooler from the breakers. Going to fit it when the engine's in, make up the lines in normal garden hose and take it to a hyraulics place to replicate in high pressure stuff with crimped ends. Using the BMW E36 pipes at the egine end should make it all look factory, and save me having to order the adaptors from Turner motorsport and buy a cooler.

Tomorrow I have the un-envyable task of correcting the mess I made by stripping the ever-so slightly scabby bits off the front panel then leaving it un-finished for months. An hour with a wire wheel, some kurust and some paint will have the engine bay looking lovely and ready for the engine to go in.

Goodie! :cool:
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Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:51 am

Great project, will be awesome once finished :cool: :cool:
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Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:49 pm

Good to see you today mate, We will have to get the turds together for some pictures :D
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Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:54 pm

Certainly will..

Well, it's easy out 1, broken brake line 0.. So I have a useable rear caliper for the ZM rear end swap.. I now have to sink two paving slabs under the rear of the car so when I put it on axle stands it doesn't fall off and ruin my week. Also realised I left the sodding drivers front hub and caliper in Coventry from when I was cadding them up! Going to have to get a mate to post them to me! :banghead:

Progress was pants today. I got up late, tired, had the hump, got a headache, drove around getting parts, swore about Dan going off and having fun and leaving me on my todd, kicked a few tools around and stomped off indoors. Not good progress. Guess at some point in the week I'll come on and need some manpons or something.

In the mean time I have made up the chart with existing wiring/pins for our TOP MAN Ian to make me up the new wiring chart (Love ya big guy :wink: ).

Got some 90 degree elbows for the heater (many thanks to Dave who ordered them and payed the deposit out of his pocket, top bloke) and at the same time got some ehat wrap for the manifolds. In my haste I didn;t think about quantity and either need to get a SHITLOAD more or return it and get the thicker 2" stuff... Bugger it 'cause all I need to do to fit the engine is fit the new clutch bearing I have, fit the gearbox, fit the (wrapped!) manifolds and slide her home. GAY! Dave: Do you have any more in stock or should I order some online and pay for next day delivery?

Still unsure about the front end geometry. I've research, researhed and researched some more and all should be well, but untill I get her on the rig I'm still crossing my fingers that she'll have the same specs as the M3 evo's. Just being over cautious I'd say. Worst comes to the worst I'm going to make some SICK DTM style lower arms (unfortunately it'll mean less turning circle probably but they'll be the nuts and negate the need for adjustable topmounts).

Sorry about the lack of pics. The batteries in my digital camera have decided to not charge regardless and the N95 has spat the dummy after 2 years (!) of ownership.

Update, updated.
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Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:10 pm

Sorry mate, just seen this. Don't think I have any more in stock, Up to you if you want to return it or I can get more in for late next week.

Sorry for the late reply
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Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:58 pm

@Dave:

Nah.. Jhonno saved the day with the remainder of the stuff he used... Cheers Dan! :D

We wrapped the manifolds with dan's stuff and the X pipe with the stuff I got from you dude.. Turned out nicely nicely. Dan has photos on his phone, so I'll get him to email them over and post them up.

@Everyone:

Well...

I'd planned to have the engine sat in the bay today, but A: Dan can't get out of bed (lol) and B: I didn't appreciate how long sanding/Kurusting/Zinc priming/Priming/painting and laquering the front panel would take. Needed to be done whilst the engine was out as it'd have been a bugger otherwise. It'd be a shame to ruin what is otherwise a nearly mint E30 by throwing the engine in there atop the few bits of scab. Just need to paint and laquer the bit that I chopped the airbox supports from now. I wasn't over the moon with my efforts but thats because I'm too sodding picky and it doesn't matter as you cant even see 99% of it behind the massive Evo rad.

The steering coupling is made up, though not exactly as Ian originally intended.. I made the mistake of chopping and driving out the rivets that hold the E36 guibo to the E36 lower U/J and so ended up bolting the whole thing together with the ECP steering rebuild shanked M8 bolts. Nice and solid now though and it has made it a tiny bit shorter which suits me as I'm spacing the rack up by 5mm (to help reduce bump steer on my lowered susension, pending no clearance issues with the sump and manifold). I'm not actually that happy with the overall sollution as the bulk of it is redundant and on Dans car comes EXTREMELY close to the manifold, so much so I think it'd cause a hazard under engine braking. I'm going to look into a better solution. With the ammount of kitcar and hotrod manufaturers out there in the world, I simply cannot accept that there isn't a nice low profile sollution out there. Something that telescopes will be ideal, to suit all E30 installations and add that bit of extra safety. There are products from america that look like they could work but are too expensive and quite frankly, I HATE chrome.

Johnno, the star, sat and wrapped the manifolds for ages.. They look sweet now, will keep the engine bay as cool as possible and hopefully get me over the 'magical' 294 horsepower a certain metrosexual got at the rollers recently... winkeye

Another major sticking point: What do everyone think of Haywood and Scott exhaust fabricators? We've recently heard mixed opinions but I really have little choice but to use tham as they have a slot within the time frame I have to get the car on the road. Going to get them to make a 2*2" (possibly 2.25" if I'm feeling frisky) system and show them pictures of the kind of thing i'm after. As long as they tig it all, and back purge properly I'll be happy.

So: pictures will probably be up if Dan gets back from wherever Dan goes on a Friday night ad decides to email me them.

I have to go pick up some shiney carbon tomoz so probably wont have much to report back on till Sunday night when I should (fingers crossed) have something eciting to show you all (well, exciting-ish)...........
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Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:39 pm

Excellent update Jai - nearly there now mate :thumb:

BTW what did Iain use for pipe diameter? 2.25 or 2.5? I think he matched whatever the E36 has. No idea if it will make a huge difference without a cat?
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Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:53 am

Well, BTB specced their exhausts at twin 2", which is what the primaries run to on a standard E36 system. The E36 system is supposedly double skinned (though my MRoadster wasnt?!?) and has an internal diameter of 2".. But then again all the decent E36 systems are larger than that, normally at twin 2.5". The E36 exhaust passes through quite a convoluted route and has cats so I imagine will be more restricted. As it stands I think twin 2" is going to be fine, one car was tested with the BTB system and made full original power (283 bhp for the 3 litre) but dans was reently dyno'd much higher with a twin 2" system with only a backbox.

The E36 race cars used a single 3" system if I recall correctly. I'll do some maths.... If I recall correctly, using some formulas taken from a book whilst at uni I remember getting twin 2.1" pipes to be right for the engine and BTB specced twin 2" which I was happy with.

The twin 2" system has a total CSA of 6.3 sq inches, a single 3" of 7 sq in and a twin 2.25" of 7.95 sq inches. The single pipe will aid scavenging, but I have a shiney BTB X pipe which should go to the same ends and aid scavenging..

Basically though top of the head engineering tells me, twin 2" for torque, twin 2.25" for more upper range. We shall see. I know the S50 engines love to breathe, a really good twin 2" system is good, perhaps the twin 2" maifolds into twin 2.25" will be better.. I shall seek some more people's oppinions.

Anyone care to comment?
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Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:00 am

Twin 2" gives 6.28" area

Single 3" Gives 7" area

Twin 2.25 gives 7.9" area..

Tbh, in my hexpert opinion, seeing as you have a twin 2" X-pipe, anything larger will be a waste in the rest of the system, stick with that
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jaistanley
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Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:16 am

jaistanley wrote:Anyone care to comment?
Anyone good care to comment? LOL :wink:

Yea, twin 2" will 95% be my choice, just need to chat to a few people who have experience of these engines, finding someone worthwhile will be more tricky. (not dispariging your hexpert oppinion of course Mr. Johnno sir, obviously).
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Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:29 am

We need to order a couple of fans still! 14" I reckon.. But can't decide which one :lol:
Got cable ties? Get diffin..

Arch roller for hire.

www.zeroexhausts.co.uk

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jaistanley
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Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:11 am

Hmmm.. I'm easy really, but seeing as it's not going to brake the bank, we should go for the best quality. CBA overheating in traffic!

That reminds me.. Can anyone point me in the right direction of a 'how to' for making my own dual speed fan circuit? I have the BMW wiring diagrams but need to know what else I'll need. I assume there is some sort of relay, and I'm guessing a resistor pack. What cars can I rob these off at the breakers, or are the parts a reasonable price at the stealers? I have a switch in a 5 series rad I have here which can go in my S50 rad; so I'll need a plug. Does anyone have the part numbers of the plug and wires etc?

Jai
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Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:45 am

jaistanley wrote:What do everyone think of Haywood and Scott exhaust fabricators?
My experience was less than great :roll:

Infact, they completely and absolutely bolloxed my manifold. No6 header pipe was so bodged that its cross section was reduced by approx 50% where it leaves the flange. This is what led me to BTB to get it corrected.

I guess the system itself was okay, but the fit was not great, and I had huge ground clearance (or lack of) problems. This was another area that BTB had to correct. I think I had to visit (H&S) 3 separate times before it stopped banging on the bottom of the car, and they were quite rude and unhelpful in the process.

My silencers and pipework between the centre and rear box is still H&S, but the rest is BTB. There's a clear visual difference in quality between the two, and I seriously doubt if any of the H&S welding was back purged. Saying that, it doesn't seem to effect the power. I made 318bhp when it was last on the rollers.

As for pipe size, I initially had the system made with twin 2.5" pipes, as this was the OD of the standard system. I later discovered that due to the double skinning, the internal size was only 2". All my BTB piework is 2", but the remaining H&S bits are 2.5". 2.5" on the front section also adds to the ground clearance problems, but with your BTB front section, you should be fine.

I personally wouldn't touch them with a shitty stick, but the work they did has lasted well, and doesn't now cause me any trouble, and does sound nice.

Have you spoken to Simpson ?

Ian.
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Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:50 am

Simpson and Zero, both my personal preferences can't do it for 6 weeks.. Which isn't helpful for Jai. I am tempted to wait and get mine done by one of those instead
Got cable ties? Get diffin..

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ian332isport
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Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:48 am

Tried OJZ ?

http://www.ojzengineering.co.uk/page.php

Supposed to be very good.
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jaistanley
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Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:57 pm

I might ring BTB and see when the soonest they can done by is(they had previously said two weeks)! First I'll try those OJZ guys, cheers Ian.

I could knock up a SHITTY system from parts, or borrow a backbox from someone and fit straight through tubes like dan. If I did that I could wait and organise with dan a Zero system in the near future.... Hmmm.

I actually have a blue flame E36 backbox in the shed from an E36 M3. I could get some stainless wire for the mig and get that to fit, then run some pipes to that. It's 2.5" though, could be a noisey little bastard for a while!
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DanThe
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Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:19 pm

I thought the E36 M3 rear box was too big?
ian332isport
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Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:57 pm

DanThe wrote:I thought the E36 M3 rear box was too big?
I think the factory one is, but a lot of aftermarket ones are smaller, and will go in. You need to make up some custom hangers though.

Ian.
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jaistanley
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Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:43 am

Yea the std M3 back box is a monster!

Buster used the blue flame backbox on his, hence I picked one up secondhand but unused AGES ago. I shall hold it up and see if it's easily modified to get me on the road.

I think organising a nice twin 2" or single 3" with Zero might be a good move. The chap there sounded like he really took pride in his work (yea, I know he would say that!) and a lot of respected peeps on here have reccomended him/them.

Perhaps Us S50/M50 guys could organise some sort of mini group buy? The guy from zero suggested that he'd make a jig, depending on quantities etc. A zone conversion exhaust perhaps?

Jai
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Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:18 am

jaistanley wrote:Perhaps Us S50/M50 guys could organise some sort of mini group buy? The guy from zero suggested that he'd make a jig, depending on quantities etc. A zone conversion exhaust perhaps?

Jai
I'd be interested, price depending of course, I really do think you cant beat BTB though.
Karan had a H&S exhaust/manifold for the S38 conversion he did (which I now have) and I think the quality is actually very good. Perhaps Ian's experiance was a one off, who knows but still not inspiring i must agree....
jaistanley
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Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:30 am

tomson wrote:
jaistanley wrote:Perhaps Us S50/M50 guys could organise some sort of mini group buy? The guy from zero suggested that he'd make a jig, depending on quantities etc. A zone conversion exhaust perhaps?

Jai
I'd be interested, price depending of course, I really do think you cant beat BTB though.
Karan had a H&S exhaust/manifold for the S38 conversion he did (which I now have) and I think the quality is actually very good. Perhaps Ian's experiance was a one off, who knows but still not inspiring i must agree....
Couldn't get any pictures could you? Closeups of the weld, overview of the system. It'd be really interestign to see what kind of thing they do. I could print them to jog their memories and I could get the same effectively.

I have an update, I'll post it shortly...

Jai
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Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:13 pm

Will take some over the weekend :D
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Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:30 am

Updates?! winkeye :P
Got cable ties? Get diffin..

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jaistanley
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Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:10 pm

Haven't had the time.. Been under a sodding awkward E30.. I'll do a long one tonight!!
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Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:26 pm

jaistanley wrote: That reminds me.. Can anyone point me in the right direction of a 'how to' for making my own dual speed fan circuit?
Ian332isport wrote up an excellent "how to" here:

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... an+install
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Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:41 pm

jaistanley wrote:Haven't had the time.. Been under a sodding awkward E30.. I'll do a long one tonight!!
Crack on man! :)
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Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:41 am

Right, so, where was I?? I seem to be getting into more and more chaos every day and only getting a little further each time. Most of the difficulty in this engine swap and chassis upgrade seems to be in the fecking logistics, rather than the actual nuts and bolts of it all. It doesn’t help that I’m anally retentive and want everything to be just right. I’m kinda having to abandon that ethic (slightly, you can still work on my car without getting very dirty at all!) in the name of getting it done. I’m VERY aware that I have less than ten days to finish, and there’s no doubt in my mind that time will have to contain another bout of ordering and waiting!

I’m in the lucky position of having a team of zoners that have now tried almost every iteration of this swap so have various and all viable ways of doing things.

So: What have I been up to?

Well:

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Engine is in!!! HOOFARKINGRAY!
Gearbox in.
Coolant hoses 85% finished.
Steering is in and piped up
Gearchanger is in (nice short throw).
Rear beam is off, stripped down and one of the adjusters is welded on (more tomorrow)
328i prop with E30 centre bearing is in.
Dipstick is modified, bent and tab welded on to fix it to the plenum.

Firstly I got the lovely wrapped manifolds on the engine on the stand.. Looked the nut sacks! Then we bolted up the JBR flywheel, M5 friction plate and M3 pressure plate. The gearbox got treated to a fresh oil change with dextron 3 and was bolted up, along with a new release bearing (a friend had one die and take out a clutch and flywheel so thought I’d better invest!). Luckily both Dan and I have no need for them fangle dangle clutch centering tools so it slid in like a buttered cock in the prison kitchens.

After pretty much no time at all we had her on her mounts but in need of gearbox mounts. At this point the funds hadn’t cleared so I still was yet to even order any useful parts for the swap!

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Funds arrived so I ordered a sh!teload of bits”¦ Notably, new beam bushes, Bilstein B6 E36 M3 shocks (£££££), belts, plugs, Uwe’s topmount adjusters, E36 track rod ends, M20 temp sender, M3 bulkhead covers, few brake line clips, various bolts for the engine and engine bay, oil cooler mounts, 14”a fan, gearshift bearings, TTV (Johnno’s group buy ones) ARB mount reinforcement plates and camber adjuster tabs. There’s more but I wont bore you with inconsequential this and that’s.

The boys from Big Bavarian Beauties sourced me a 328i prop so I went over and picked that up (in the worlds slowest Combo van!). They’ve got me most of the bits I thought I was going to have a nightmare to find so big thanks to them! Dan and I swapped the bearing for the late E30 one. You don’t so much fit it in reverse, as fit it the same way as the original E30 one, it’s just that the E36 props are reversed compared to E30 ones. For the sake of future swaps, the ZMRoadster/Coupe prop can also be used. Mine was trashed in the accident that wrote off the car though.

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The gear linkage is actually one from a 325i I believe. It was kicking around at BBB so I grabbed it in case it fitted. Turns out that when combined with the ZM shifter it’s just about perfect! The throw is nice and short, both forwards and backwards, and side to side. The only concern is that there is literally 1mm clearance to the prop! You can bang down on the stick and hear a ”˜ting!’ as it hits the prop. I can’t see it being a problem at all, the prop is smooth there so nothing will clash/break even if you did it at speed (I guess!!). I was a little concerned so fitted 1mm washers between the gearbox mount and the chassis just to make sure it’ll be ok. The new bearings/bushing should keep it all in order, if not I’ll get a slightly shorter shifter. We shall see.

One thing worth noting is that you should fit the drivers side steering rack bolt upwards. With the engine in you can’t get it out otherwise! Dan and I had to lift the engine to get the bolt out so I could fit the spacer washers required for the E36 rack swap. Only a minor set-back, but annoying none the less. Also, the BTB manifold still sits VERY close to the coupling so the bolt can hit the collector. Dan’s has a lower UJ that has a bolt and nut which even shortened contacts. Mine has an encapsulated sleeve that is a tiny bit narrower. I cut the bolt to length and hopefully there should be no contact.

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Once the engine was in we noticed that I had loads of clearance to the servo at the plenum. I moved mine across 60mm using the same method as Dameon. Dan didn’t but his still fits. Scratching our heads we summised that it must be the difference in runner lengths between the 3.2 and 3.0 engines. Just something worth noting.

We made the coolant pipes from the head to the heater matrix out of 90 degree elbows and the E36 heater pipes. It turned out quite neatly but I CANNOT stress enough what a ball ache it is to re-fit the grommet with the thick silicone elbows in there!! I still have to fit the jubilee clips in the cockpit (he he I said cock-pit), It’s sooo tight.

I shall smatter the above post with pics when they upload to keep the readers interest.. I'll also take more tomorrow (didn't get any today) and post a COOOOL one of burning the beam bushes out!

Nunight people! Prey fro sunshine!

PS Does anyone know how I can get an E36 hub and disk from Coventry to Essex quickly and cheaply? My friend got some ridiculous quotes from the post office and has gone off the idea of sending them!! I dont fancy driving up to pick them up, it'll waste time. :cry:
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Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:36 pm

^^^ Use DHL or UPS, much cheaper than Royal Fail. Probably about a tenner to send - less if you know someone with a business account...
ian332isport
E30 Zone Team Member
E30 Zone Team Member
Posts: 5380
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:00 pm
Location: West Sussex
Contact:

Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:34 pm

Is this some sort of weird masonic trouser action :wink:


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If it aint broke - Modify it...
d6dph
Married to the E30 Zone
Married to the E30 Zone
Posts: 12435
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Tiptree. Essex

Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:49 pm

Pahahahahaha What does he look like! :lol:
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