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M20B25 885 Cylinder head
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:45 pm
by GTE
Happy new year,
I am having a problem with my engine, its been some weeks that a small amount of water is disappearing from the expansion tank we check and double check were the water is going no leaks no nothing. Yesterday I have found on the oil dip stick 5-6 small spots of oil-mayonnaise. I believe I have a crack cylinder head. Take in to consideration that the cylinder head was done a year ago from a very good and highly professional shop. I have spoken with them and informed me that the M20 cylinder heads have the tendency to crack under the camshaft and I should find a second hand unit.
Do you now anyone that sells ready recondition cylinder heads?
Any choices?
Any help will be much appreciated.
Best Regards
Andreas
Re: M20B25 885 Cylinder head
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:52 pm
by maxfield
A good M20 head is hard to find now days, but I'm sure there will be somebody on here with one.
It was properly diagnosing before saying it want a cylinder head on it. They are common for cracking as the machine shop said.
Re: M20B25 885 Cylinder head
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:02 pm
by GTE
Hi and thank you for the quick reply!
I am looking for a very good second hand unit or a recondition!!!!
Thanks
Re: M20B25 885 Cylinder head
Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:22 pm
by E30coupwes
Really hard to find a good one to be honest! I've been looking for a good one for several months and finally got my self a rebuilt one of eBay, I had to pay a lot for it tho!
Have a look on eBay there's one on now but it needs fully rebuilding, it's extreamly cheap too
Re: M20B25 885 Cylinder head
Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:14 pm
by GTE
Hi and thank you for the info. I am looking now to buy a brand new cylinder head from AMC.
Any opinions on the amc cylinder head????
Re: M20B25 885 Cylinder head
Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:49 pm
by Brianmoooore
AMC heads are reckoned to be OK, AFAIK, but wouldn't it be a good idea to do some diagnostics on your existing head first, to establish whether or not there is actually something wrong with it?
Re: M20B25 885 Cylinder head
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:38 am
by GTE
willnz wrote:Brianmoooore wrote:but wouldn't it be a good idea to do some diagnostics on your existing head first, to establish whether or not there is actually something wrong with it?
My thoughts exactly!
Hi, the head was welded (very little spots from water damage), skimmed, valves guides replaced, done the valves and pressure tested. What else shall I look taking in to account all the above that was done 1.5 year ago by a professional shop!!!!!
Any advice?
Thanks
Re: M20B25 885 Cylinder head
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:14 am
by Brianmoooore
I see nothing in the OP that convinces me that there is anything serious wrong with the engine at all. The two symptoms mentioned are a small coolant loss and a few small spots of mayonnaise on the dipstick.
Coolant loss: In my experience, a M20 E30 will not maintain the level in the bottle at the correct point. It will blow out coolant until it is around 10mm - 15mm below the seam on the bottle, and then nor drop any further.
I once had a M20 as a daily driver that would very slowly consume coolant. It took two years to discover a very intermittent drip from the water pump, that only occurred when the engine was running, and only when it felt like it.
There can be a tiny hole in the radiator matrix that evaporates almost instantly, or a pin hole in a hose leaking a jet so fine that it's impossible to find until you accidentally put your hand in the way.
Mayonnaise: The spots on the dipstick were picked up on the stick as it was withdrawn. If it was the general condition of the oil, then the whole of the dipstick would have been covered in it, and the level probably high.
The combustion of petrol produces vast quantities of water vapour, some of which will end up in the oil as part of the small amount gasses that blow by the pistons. The majority of this is boiled off by the hot oil and extracted by the crankcase vent. system, but some will find its way into cool nooks and crannies, such as the dipstick tube or oil filler cap, and form small quantities of mayonnaise.
Re: M20B25 885 Cylinder head
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:23 am
by GTE
willnz wrote:Before you strip anything, get the cooling system pressure tested, making sure the engine is at operating temperature. Remove the cam/rocker cover before doing this test. While the test is underway, look for water weeping up from under the camshaft, particularly towards the rear of the head. This is one spot where the head is inclined to crack if overheated.
If you confirm a pressure leak in the cooling system, but do not see any trace of water escaping under the camshaft, you should then investigate whether it has blown the head gasket between the oil and the cooling galleries. (This because you have found sludge on the dipstick, suggesting water is mixing with the oil).
Hi Man, thank you for your reply and help.
I will check and see what is going on!! When the head gasket was replaced I bought a set of Victor Reinz head set which I belive is a very good brand???
No the engine never overheated!!
I will check and inform asap
I would also examine the spark plugs for evidence of water leaking into the combustion chamber- normally this will make the porcelain on the spark plug very white. If this is evident, it could point to cracking through to the inlet/exhaust port and/or head gasket failure.
If you had overheated the engine recently (I assume you have not or you would have mentioned it), you could reasonably expect a cracked head. These heads do not normally crack out of the blue. I think you have a good chance that the head gasket has failed, not the head. Check before just buying a new head.
If it is a head gasket failure, make sure you get the head/block surfaces checked for straightness and use a decent head gasket, not some of the cheap asian sh*t that is floating around..!!
Re: M20B25 885 Cylinder head
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:54 am
by GTE
Brianmoooore wrote:I see nothing in the OP that convinces me that there is anything serious wrong with the engine at all. The two symptoms mentioned are a small coolant loss and a few small spots of mayonnaise on the dipstick.
Coolant loss: In my experience, a M20 E30 will not maintain the level in the bottle at the correct point. It will blow out coolant until it is around 10mm - 15mm below the seam on the bottle, and then nor drop any further.
I once had a M20 as a daily driver that would very slowly consume coolant. It took two years to discover a very intermittent drip from the water pump, that only occurred when the engine was running, and only when it felt like it.
There can be a tiny hole in the radiator matrix that evaporates almost instantly, or a pin hole in a hose leaking a jet so fine that it's impossible to find until you accidentally put your hand in the way.
Mayonnaise: The spots on the dipstick were picked up on the stick as it was withdrawn. If it was the general condition of the oil, then the whole of the dipstick would have been covered in it, and the level probably high.
The combustion of petrol produces vast quantities of water vapour, some of which will end up in the oil as part of the small amount gasses that blow by the pistons. The majority of this is boiled off by the hot oil and extracted by the crankcase vent. system, but some will find its way into cool nooks and crannies, such as the dipstick tube or oil filler cap, and form small quantities of mayonnaise.
Hi thank you for your reply.
The water level stayed solid on the max level for more than 1.5 year not a single mm drop down. The engine needs water about 400ml every 3 days (the leak is small) is there a chance that the cylinder head is cracked near the exhaust valve and the water goes thru the exhaust???
Regards
Andreas
Re: M20B25 885 Cylinder head
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:30 am
by Brianmoooore
It may well turn out that the head is cracked as you say, but it'll be a very expensive exercise for no gain if a new head is fitted and the leak remains.
A pressure test on the cooling system (pressurise the cooling system to two bar with compressed air) would be a good test to conduct. Leave the system pressurised for several hours, and you stand a good chance of finding where the water is going.
Don't attempt to crank the engine afterwards with the spark plugs in, in case a cylinder has filled with water.
Re: M20B25 885 Cylinder head
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:26 am
by HairyScreech
Leaks, leaks everywhere!
As these cars age the possibility of a tiny leak goes through the roof, several time what is thought to be a cracked head is actually a small leak as Brian said.
The heater is a good one as it can be tiny leaks behind the dash that you can't easily see.
As Brian says, do a proper pressure test on the system, if it is the head then there should be water visible in the cam valley around cylinders 5 and 6.
However the cracked head is a bit over hyped, yes they crack but it's not the first suspect despite what the internet would have you believe.
Also check the breather hose from the cam cover to the throttle body, when mine blocked with gunk it really mayoed up the inside of the cam cover and filler cap.