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Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:49 pm
by oldbimmer
The topic of "best suspension kit" has been discussed elsewhere at length but this seems to have been more geared towards road use as opposed to track work.
Excluding coilover kits, what is the general concsus of opinion for the best TRACK suspension setup from the following:
1. Koni adjustable kit
2. H&R cup kit
3. Bilstien dampers/ KW springs
Would be interesting to hear some opinions on the subject
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:40 pm
by manu6
I have the H&R Cup , and in my opinion this is the best so far , before the real racing set-up .
My car is amazing fast on corners only with this suspension , and a set of Toyo's , nobody belives , when I say that the rest is completly standard wich is the truth .
Good friends , racing drivers , they are still now , afther 2 track days seasons , surprised with the handling of this "old" 325 .
Hardly no roll , perfect for wet and dry , double springs , for low and high speed .
My good friend
http://www.fleurysport.ch/Page?nom=video , same of you know is videos , was also quite surprised with this H&R cup , every things becames so easy , to a point for Is new car , he ordred the same .
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:10 pm
by northloop
Hardly no roll .......... have you looked at the picture you posted? If that's no roll I would hate to see roll
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:23 pm
by JohnH
I just put Bilstein shocks and Eibach springs on the iS along with new top mouts all round - have to say I highly recommend that combo
If you shop around there are huge differences in prices - I got the shocks off an ebay seller in the US
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:26 pm
by fuzzy
ive went for bilstein shocks and spax spring.handles well but not much track time as yet.
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:21 pm
by manu6
northloop wrote:Hardly no roll .......... have you looked at the picture you posted? If that's no roll I would hate to see roll
Yeah , but check the Toyo's how hard are they working , this is a 3rd gear , 6.000rpm corner .
... same corner .
The set-up for H&R Cup are made for the Ring , so not only they are excellent , but so easy , this car with this suspension , every one can go fast with .
The June 11 , we are again in Dijon , is some of you are near by , came have a look .
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:24 pm
by maxfield
Still takes car control to drive an E30 fast, a subaru with it's electronices on the other hand is easy to drive.
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:30 pm
by fuzzy
maxfield wrote:Still takes car control to drive an E30 fast, a subaru with it's electronices on the other hand is easy to drive.
try telling that to my mate who recently wrote of his wrx
rwd is a different style of driving to 4wd but you still hit objects with the same force
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:32 pm
by maxfield
fuzzy wrote:maxfield wrote:Still takes car control to drive an E30 fast, a subaru with it's electronices on the other hand is easy to drive.
try telling that to my mate who recently wrote of his wrx
rwd is a different style of driving to 4wd but you still hit objects with the same force
Obviously he pushed a bit to hard.
At least with RWD you can hit is sideways
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:16 am
by Francisco
maxfield wrote:Still takes car control to drive an E30 fast, a subaru with it's electronices on the other hand is easy to drive.
An M3 E30 is as easy and as intuitive as RWD car gets. Hence the myth.
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:23 am
by maxfield
Francisco wrote:maxfield wrote:Still takes car control to drive an E30 fast, a subaru with it's electronices on the other hand is easy to drive.
An M3 E30 is as easy and as intuitive as RWD car gets. Hence the myth.
Never pushed an E30/M3 to the limits, yet.
But have heard that the M3 is a very forgiving car.
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:18 am
by djs325
I've got Koni 2-way dampers in the front, 1-way in the rear, with Eibach Springs front and rear on Yokohama AO48 Tyres (205/50 R15). Have nothing but nice things to say about them in my racing 325i.
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:28 am
by northloop
The set-up for H&R Cup are made for the Ring , so not only they are excellent , but so easy , this car with this suspension , every one can go fast with .
A suspension set up which is ideal for the ring will not be ideal for other circuits.
I have a H&R coilover kit which is specific to the ring and the front is hard but the rear is soft. This would not be ideal in the UK.
I'm not trying to pick fault by the way, just point out that what is good for the ring isn't necessarily good for everywhere else
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:58 pm
by Dan318-is
northloop wrote:The set-up for H&R Cup are made for the Ring , so not only they are excellent , but so easy , this car with this suspension , every one can go fast with .
A suspension set up which is ideal for the ring will not be ideal for other circuits.
I have a H&R coilover kit which is specific to the ring and the front is hard but the rear is soft. This would not be ideal in the UK.
I'm not trying to pick fault by the way, just point out that what is good for the ring isn't necessarily good for everywhere else
Fair point but if you are going in to that much detail your budget/time/knowledge must be far beyond e30 trackdays in my opinion. There would be an ideal set-up for each track the world ocer; hence why touring car and rally teams have huge budgets with hundreds of set ups just for a select few tracks. For a laugh and for some semi-serious track day fun in a £2000 rusting bmw, HnR coilovers and cup kits, whether they are engineered for the ring' or not should do the job in my opinion.
p.s. lucky bastard having HnR coilovers
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:53 pm
by northloop
Dan,
If you felt how soft mine feel at the back then you might change your mind. I am sceptical how good they will be. They are however the same spec as Castrol hague cup cars. We shall see though.
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:07 am
by Dan318-is
Rock hard isnt always the best though! Technically, if you have a car as stiff as possible and then go round a corner at a high speed one and wheel lifts of the ground that is 25% less grip; this is how i see it. I suppose the beauty of the Hnr coilies is that you can change that.
For me, i have inverted bilsteins with HnR springs and eibach rollbars; the biggest difference i have ever noticed handling wise to my car however is a set of t1r proxies.
what tracks are you going to take the car with the coilovers round? I assume they are on a 325?
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:42 am
by northloop
Dan,
My car will live at the ring hence the reason I bought the kit I did. It will run standard ARB's as again the quick locals over there recommend it. If the spring rate is wrong it can easily be changed.
I was trying to point out previously that what is right for the ring may not be right for other UK circuits
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:47 pm
by oldbimmer
manu6 wrote:northloop wrote:Hardly no roll .......... have you looked at the picture you posted? If that's no roll I would hate to see roll
Yeah , but check the Toyo's how hard are they working , this is a 3rd gear , 6.000rpm corner .
... same corner .
The set-up for H&R Cup are made for the Ring , so not only they are excellent , but so easy , this car with this suspension , every one can go fast with .
Car looks good..
What Toyo tyres do you have? R888?
The June 11 , we are again in Dijon , is some of you are near by , came have a look .
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:48 am
by MJG
This hasn't really been answered yet. What do all the hardcore e30 trackdayers/racers use? Koni's?
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:09 am
by manu6
http://www.profolio.fr/petitjean/11461d.html
A few pics from Dijon , my car easy to recognise ... .
First time with dry track in this very fast circuit . Still a perfect compromise between road and track use , the same for the Toyo's . In the afternoon again rain , and as always the car performs really good .
One thing , by dry track , once a certain speed is reach , the lack of power of the car becames a huge handicap . It is possible to go quicker , but the car starts to "dance" , the suspension and the tyres have to work really hard without the help of the power .
A Z4 3.0 from a British driver , only with Toyo's and standard suspension , and a few other things , was impossible to follow .
In my car , it is still possible to lower the suspension , I go try , just to see . But too much and the rear wheels they maybe loose grip .
So again , there is for sure better suspensions , but this H&R are made to be easy and for the level of a normal driver . Words of Franz Fabien , one of the ring Masters , Northloop for sure knows who is .
But , in 4 gear , Pouas corner on the limit , a real race car , with a racing suspension and real slicks , is much faster , but the price also , for sure , is ... racing .
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:22 am
by northloop
manu6
Yes I know who Franz Fabien is
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:41 pm
by Simon13
my bit
i use H&R cupkit springs with bilstein inverted type dampers. Gary my springs are also soft on the rear. I've used Hartge anti roll bars too, with good effect. Last trip i did the car handled very neutrally and also on toyo tyres! proxies mind.
It's perfect for me as my car is a daily and the ride comfort is fine and then when we go to the ring it's not a wobble bus round there
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:08 am
by oldbimmer
Hi all,
I thought I'd post a follow up to this one..
I have now bought an H&R cup kit together with H&R anti-roll bars. All I can say is that it's absolutely superb kit and has totally transformed the way the car handles. It's maybe a little firm for an everyday road car but on the track it excels. As MANU6 says, it's now so easy to drive the car fast on track.
I can thoroughly recommend this set up!!
Re: Koni, H&R or Bilstein
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:43 pm
by manu6
Cheers !!!!!