E30 Zone

I'm sure it has been done to death but I couldn't find it!

Is there an aftermarket quick rack about?
Demon tweeks do some pretty cheap stuff for escorts etc-i.e less than a second hand e36 M3 rack,but I couldn't see anything for an e30.
There must be some about as I doubt e30 rally cars would be any use without one.......

When it comes to doing the e36 conversion-does it have to be a m3 rack or will any e36 rack be an improvement?

E30 racks are 4 turns lock to lock.
Regular E36 racks are 3.25 turns lock to lock.
M3 E36 racks are 3 turns lock to lock (only the 3.0L I think).
Z3 racks are 2.7 turns lock to lock.

cheers for that,I take it the z3 rack is the same as an e36 rack when it comes to getting it on an e30?

I've never seen one so I'm not sure. BTW - I think that the M3 and Z3 rack have less maximal travel than the other racks. They still have quicker ratios (z3 quickest m3 secont quickest), but the lock to lock number by itself doesn't show the whole picture.

Normal E36 rack is 3.4 turns.

M3 Evo rack is the same as a normal E36 rack with limited travel, which leads to 3.2 turns.

3.0L M3 rack is progressive and desperately slow in the middle. (3 turns, same amount of travel as Evo rack.)

Z3M/breadvan rack is the same as the Evo rack.

Non-M Z3 rack is the one to have. 2.75 turns for the same travel as the Evo/Z3M rack (3.2 turns), easily the fastest rack.

I've personally measured and confirmed all of the above.

There must be some about as I doubt e30 rally cars would be any use without one

Some use a LHD Talbot Sunbeam rack, turned upside down, standard track rods. (2.25 or 2.4 turns, loads around with the option.)

Not sure what's involved, but that's deffo what they do.

Cheeers for the info,does anybody know if the z3 racks go on?

I emailed demon tweeks but helpful as ever they didn't bother replying,I spend loads there too,set of c*nts.

The sunbeam rack could be a go,I know someone who has one kicking around thier garage!(he collects all sorts of random stuff)

Z3 racks almost bolt straight in, just need small spacers made to fit on top of the rack where the through bolts go in, and steering coupling needs modifying a little as pinion angle is slightly different. Pretty straight forward job though. Do a search on some of the other forums, I have seen a detailed installation with pics on one of them, although I can't remember which one.

Yes I have fitted a Z3 rack to my E30 M3 rally car (its RHD ) , it fitted straight on with a 13mm spacer I think it was where it fits in the cross member as the Z3 rack is thinner , I even used the Z3 track rod ends , its plenty quick enough now when my 313:5bhp kicks in , it spends more time sideways now

godspeed@ any chance of a pic? did you follow the guide from the articles section here on the zone - you reckon it would clear a 6 branch manifold?

have a look here
http://e30m3performance.com/installs/in ... /index.htm

Isn't there a clearance issue when fitting the E36 rack to the M42 engined cars

Godspeed wrote:Yes I have fitted a Z3 rack to my E30 M3 rally car (its RHD ) , it fitted straight on with a 13mm spacer I think it was where it fits in the cross member as the Z3 rack is thinner , I even used the Z3 track rod ends , its plenty quick enough now when my 313:5bhp kicks in , it spends more time sideways now

Did you have to fashion one of those adapter things for the joint?
I take it clearance is ok,if so thats a bonus since the m42 engines are not miles different sizewise to the m3 ones. Cheers.

I also have a M42 engined (road rally) car. Am I right in thinking the Z3 rack is different from the E36 one and will fit my car?

if so.....excellent

Z3 rack is the same as the E36 rack, it's only different internally.

LHD Sunbeam rack is the way to go for a rally car.

picked up a z3 rack today,will let you all know how the fitting goes!

i believe there are clearance issues with the exh manifold against the steering U/J with the 318is, be interesting to see how you go!

Just been looking at it,I don't know if anyone has put e36 rack on an IS since they are the same as the z3 rack externally,but unless there is a difference in the splines I cant see why it won't work with the standard e30 bits all the way to the rack,doing away with all this spacer lark????
It looks pretty close,there also looks to be a fair bit of room near the manifold now,only the heatshield on the standard uj gets close to it.

If it all gets a bit tight I might just take a sledge to the chassis leg

I think (been told but can't confirm as I haven't seen it) that the E36 rack is a straight E30 swap without any special spacers etc if you use the two main bracket bolt holes at the front of the central mounting points as per manual steering racks, not the two that are closest to the crossmember.

The process is underway! Much discussion at work today with old school fix anything mechanic,between the two of us we came to the conclusion with some measuring and a smidgen of maths that apart from a spacer to lift the rack up a bit it should be a straight swap,noticed my shiny z3 rack has a bent arm on it though Hoping that the e30 end will go on it where they split in the gaiters,if not its back to the breakers..............
Its on my drive now,just waiting for the rain to stop,Iwill take pics of the process and post them at some point!

good man! looking forward to this.

Started getting on with it this aft,got badass spanner rash trying to undo track rod bolt-I reckon I have chipped a bone in my hand.nice one.
Had to cut the fecker off in the end,I have decide that lying on the floor is not the way to do things,I need a ramp-I'm pretty sure that my main issue is going to be the pipes,the rest looks cool,should have it sort of done tomorrow!

If it works,i will do a little tech guide-but if it is easy my best advice would be get a rack and take it to a garage and pay a couple of hours labour,with air tools and a ramp it would be easy as some of the bolts are a total bitch to get at when you are on the deck!

Right then,bout halfway here are some pics

1)Here are the racks together,note different pipe fitting locations and slightly different pinion shaft angle z3 rack is top one


2)This is the mounting point on the subframe,hole with washer shaped mark is the origional point,as you can see I have used the further forward hole(I think they are for none pas racks)


3)This is the uj on the pinion-angle doesn't matter really as they have loads of movement in them-note clearance from lower bit of manifold where it goes 2-1 and on the right from the engine mount.plenty of space.


4)this is where the uj comes up to that daft rubber joint near the downpipes,it looks tight from this angle,but the next pic shows my hand between the joint and the manifold in the same place but from a different angle you can just see the bottom of the rubber bit above my hand.


5)My hand!


I think it should all be cool,track rods can be used only problem now is the pipes,but they may reach.
I put the rack on the bottom of the mount with a plan to putting spacers above it,it seems to fit better that way and in theory should be less stressful on the car.
Not sure how it would go on a 6cyl e30,but then they are too slow and heavy to need quick steering ,but then I havent been under one to check it out!

Before anybody points it out I know I haven't put any bolts in-previously mentioned spanner rash feels like a broken thumb so grip isn't great!
This conversion will prob be fairl easy with a ramp and some practice,its a bastard doing it on the floor!

BTW I have a normal hand,its looks a bit fookin wierd in that pic!

wow! think i better get myself a z3 rack! you say you're using the e30 track rod ends? btw a non-sunroof lazerblau 318is? awesome!

I'm using the Z3 track rod ends,not a lot different shape wise-look a bit odd-I don't understand why they don't just make them straight????

You could use the e30 ends with some fiddling-it was the bolt halfway down the e30 track rod that abused my hand so it is being filed under B1N!

btw a non-sunroof lazerblau 318is? awesome!

Thanks! I'm breaking a white IS btw,not much left but still have nice doors and bootlid,plus spot on electric sunroof,complte with black roof panel and switch.
Surprising how much more headroom there is in blue car tho.
The chap i got the rack off has a few of them Ԛ£100,his place is a treasure chest,he had 750/850 v12 engines piled up amongst other things!
his site is www.gcdbreakers.com

More done today.......

Rack is on and bolted up with some big washers used as spacers,I will machine some proper ones if it all works.(call my car the prototype!)


you will need to cut a bit of the plastic away on the undertray,since the rack is bit further forward the boot just catches it,It will wear out pretty quick if you leave it


For the pipes,I have butchered the origional ones so could get them on the new rack.Plan is to join them back together with some high pressure hose but run them in front of the engine fixed to the tray under the radiator i think,you could run them behind the rack oe spec which I may do in future after its proven to be good but I doubt it makes any difference unless you are one of those slightly sad,still living with your mum concours types


You can see them going forward in this pic-not pretty but you cant see it from anywhere,I had to thread camera down a gap to get the pic.
I need some nuts for the track rod ends and a bit of pipe then it will be running.It works now with the engine of-feels quick too

schuey wrote:I doubt it makes any difference unless you are one of those slightly sad,still living with your mum concours types...

...or just don't want it to look butchered?

Interesting project though, have you calculated how the new rack position will respond to bump steer? How does the tie-rod arc differ? How will toe alter as the steering moves from lock to lock? What will the new rack position do to the ackerman angles?

I'm personally guessing you are going to have some very strange things happening but would love to be wrong. It would be great if you could just bolt the rack in the other holes and everything works...

Bump steer shouldn't be an issue since the monuting holes i'm using are for the manual rack,the standard rack was pretty shit when it came to bump steer,but that could be down to the geometery changing as a result of the low suspension,I reckon there won't be any difference there.
By my maths the toe angle will change going from lock to lock but only by a margianal amount over the standard setup,the tie rod arc is slightly different-but I had a look at a vectra rack today and the tie rods come out at quite an angle on them....

The only proof will be in driving it,I have been racing since I was 10 so hopefully I will notice anything major,wether I can sort it out is another matter

As for ackerman angles, i doubt they are anything like they were 16 years ago,due to the abuse the car has had! I think the age old e30 rear wheel camber problem doesn't help with any of those technical things(Ihope,ignorance is bliss eh?)

...or just don't want it to look butchered?

I just found some nice,very flexible stainless braided hose that will fit down the crossmember behind the rack nicely-so as not to upset the purists

I'm still messing with fitting mine to an M20 and even mounted in the rear holes in the subframe it only just clears the sump, and thats without the front hose on it.

The other problem as Ste mentioned is bump steer, at high speeds i've got a feeling it will get a bit twitchy being such a quick rack.

schuey
once you get it running it may be worth keeping an eye on the temperature of the fluid because the Z3 has a cooling pipe that runs around the front of the rad.

in that case I may leave the pipes up front so they pick up the cool air under the rad....

I dont know what the m20 sumps are like but the m42 sump makes life difficult with getting the rack on and off takes a bit of wiggling to say the least!
If its real twitchy it may be better without the belt on,but i reckon it will be a beast to park like that!

schuey wrote:the monuting holes i'm using are for the manual rack

Are you sure about that?

There didnt seem to be enough metal around the front edge of the front holes on mine to mount anything to, at least not very securely.

I went to the extra little bit of trouble it causes to mount my E36 rack in the rear most holes too.
I've got a mate who had a mk3 Escort once and, due to rust, has rack mounting gave up, rack fell off and he ended up upside down in a field!
Lucky not to be seriously hurt!

Great effort! Hope it comes together well. Let us know how it feels to drive. Will be following you down this route if the feeling is good

G