E30 Zone

I am a regular on bike trackdays, but never with a car so thought it about time I fixed that. I am doing Castle Combe this Thursday, in my wholly inappropriate, shockingly unreliable, M30'd soft top.

Wish me luck, I think I may need it

Sweepstake on what overheats first lugging that boat anchor around? Engine, brakes or front tyres?

Martin.

Your car is Alpine White, therefore it will be AWESOME on track!

I'd advise making sure that pads/discs and fluid are in top condition.

ATE superblue makes a helluva difference rather than normal dot4 fluid

Front tyres.. Or the cab will snap in 2

Jhonno wrote:Front tyres.. Or the cab will snap in 2

Damn, mine is wrong wheel drive for that sort of shenanigans .....

I thought you sold the old girl!? I'd come along and say hi but off to Spa Thursday morning

rix313 wrote:I thought you sold the old girl!? I'd come along and say hi but off to Spa Thursday morning

I tried selling it, but the car thought otherwise and grenaded its autobox. So, it is now converted to manual. 'Tis destiny I tell you .....

Spa, sounds like an epic trip. Enjoy. Are you racing/testing there?

Martin.

MJJ_ZX6RR wrote:I tried selling it, but the car thought otherwise and grenaded its autobox. So, it is now converted to manual. 'Tis destiny I tell you .....

Spa, sounds like an epic trip. Enjoy. Are you racing/testing there?

Martin.

Ah fair enough. 'tis a while since I spoke to you last, hope all is well!

I'm working with an Aston GT4 Vantage in their one make series

Castle coombe is just down the road from me, going there myself once my E30 is back to health and has its ticket. If the brakes start to go, watch out for for bobbies, suddenly jumps up at you and unless you know it well, start off going through their slow or it will catch you out. If in doubt, use the run off and go straight (should be some bollards to weave through and then rejoin the circuit).

Have a right laugh from the pit straight up through Folly but stick right before Quarry, its a longer bend than you think (lots of overtaking done there) and the final bend, Champ, can be taken faster than you think, stick to 4th through there and upto 5th just before Folly and keep it planted until you brake for Quarry.

Used to race there in the Autoitalia Championship, running 2 alfa 156's and a single alfa 33.

Usually instructors on hand to come out with you for a few laps to help you find your braking points etc and best lines through the corners which will differ from a bike route as you probably know.

Cheers for the tips, I have ridden Combe a few times, but I am sure the speeds will be very different. My track bike will touch 170 before Avon Rise and braking into Quarry, I'd need a 3 mile long 1 in 3 hill do that in the E30.

The part that concerns me is how the car will stand up to track use. A road bike will go round a track all day long with no complaints, I get the feeling a road car will boil brakes and overheat tyres quite quickly.

Oh well, I will take it easy to start with and see how it goes tomorrow.

Martin.

just start off slow and build up. Would recomend fresh disc and track pads and a fluid change (and bleed of course) unless yours are pretty new. Even then a set of track discs and pads are an idea if you are going to do a few, just swop them over come track time.

Tyres will get rather warm and worn, rear wheel drive remember so backside out action will cause additional wear and slow your times down (normally happens at Quarry, seen many people sideways there, even mini super 7's on racedays are arse out or on 4 wheel drifts). Just remember on a bike you can normally get on the power that bit sooner than you can in a rear drive car, too early and the backend will step out before you know it.

Good luck, its a fast circuit (also the 2nd widest in the UK) so good for trackdays and also people new to trackdays as there is plenty of space out there. Just watch out in case simon Norris turns up (he does reasonably regularly on trackdays as well as race at castle coombe) he is genuinely a loon on trackdays and probably the fastest person out on track, regardless of what car he is in.

Give the brakes a bleed at lunch time to keep the fluid fresh and for piece of mind, and keep an eye on your tyres pressures. You'll find your front left will get the biggest hammering so make it a couple of psi lower than the others before you go out. Just remember to give it a cool down lap before you come in so you don't haul up with smoke pouring out the wheel arches.

Tower is the corner I like the least, it falls away from you at a funny angle. At Camp try to hit that kurb on the exit, you can always tell when some one hasn't driven Combe much as they always exit Camp in the middle of the track as they take it too slow.

Looks like good weather for it any way, better than when I did it last November in the snow when it was -3 (brrr) and there was black ice every where that made ya arse twitch

m8782538 wrote: simon Norris turns up (he does reasonably regularly on trackdays as well as race at castle coombe) he is genuinely a loon on trackdays and probably the fastest person out on track, regardless of what car he is in.

I think his 'speed' is more to do with the car than his skill. I'd make sure you're not in the same session if you like the way your car looks lol! He's a nice guy but his driving is a bit scary.

m8782538 wrote:Just watch out in case simon Norris turns up

Is this the guy behind the Evo Tuning company - Norris Designs I think? There is always a few very quick Evos on the race days, normally matt black ones, but occasionally a short wheelbase 900+ bhp monster. Great to watch.

Martin.

The Matt black ones were the Ajec cars, Norris' Combe Saloons car was white. Either way they always blew up . Don't have them any more, has made the saloons much more interesting as the rest of the field gets a proper race IMO.

m8782538 wrote:Would recomend fresh disc and track pads and a fluid change (and bleed of course)

rix313 wrote:Give the brakes a bleed at lunch time to keep the fluid fresh

Hmmm, so my plan of doing nothing but putting fuel in it and dropping a few PSI all round may have some flaws

Martin.

you will probably be ok, when did you last check your discs and pads? if less than half worn you should be fine, but be prepared to change them afterwards, all depends on how hard you are on your brakes and tyres, smooth driving style takes less out of both, hence start slow and steady and build up your speed, also lets your brakes warm up before you really start hammering them.

Start slow, learn the track, as you gain in confidence your speed will automatically increase, nice any easy first 3 or 4 laps, then you will notice your speed has increased (if you take your eyes off the track to check your speedo).

Just had a thought, E30zone members all on trackday, on track at the same time, lol, E30 convoy.

just realised not a good idea, me at the back in my 316i, lol. Need to get a new helmet first, got rid of my old one, and suit when i stopped rallying.......d'oh

There's quite a few track E30's in our area, not a bad shout that

True, a couple in swindon, chippenham, yourself in Westbury, i think some in salisbury, Its our local circuit and a good one too.

I am still hoping to have my 2dr on the road by christmas, its costing that much to get sorted, and in the current economic climate its not easy, luckily everything apart from the welding is being done by me at weekends so once its sorted and i have a new skid lid i'll be on track before long.

m8782538 wrote:Just had a thought, E30zone members all on trackday, on track at the same time, lol, E30 convoy.

Why does this spring immediately to mind ?

that would happen if i was out first in my 316i, lol. I would sit at the back and wave as i get lapped.

I'll be either there or (more likely) at the rolling road behind the circuit. I dropped the car up at the weekend to get it set up on the RR for tomorrow, but Paul (ShepsEvo3) has a dislocated shoulder. I'm going to do do the spannering and he'll run the dyno tomorrow, still hoping to get out for a few laps afterwards. My brother will also be there, I'm in a silver 318is, he has a Clio.

Cheers
Brian

Well, the old girl did me proud and survived 174 miles of open pitlane tomfoolery with distinction.

The day started a little damp, so the first couple of sessions were fairly steady.





Sun came out mid morning, so got a chance to use the best feature of my particularly unusual choice of track car. Still, at least it is a no-sunroof shell





No track day would be complete without the usual over-exuberance putting in an appearance. I found the rear brakes would lock up far more easily than expected, even after discovering that the ABS is not working.





I took advantage of a bit of free instruction, and that was very useful. Smooth meant faster, but 'tis a real shame that screeching tyres and out of shape corner entry was a lot more fun.





Tyresd survived well, but the brakes took a right pounding. Standard road brakes were simply unable to shed the heat needed.

Great fun, will have to do that again.

@Brian, was yours the silver, caged PBMW car? It was nice to see aniother E30 there, but I did not manage to come over and say hello - sorry about that.

Martin.

Hope you had a good day, saw the car when I was walking past for a pee but was gone on the way back. You were out on track any time I was around after that. Had a bag of sh!t day all round really. The guy who does the ignition mapping at the dyno was on holiday so spent all morning with the car at the dyno doing fk all useful except changing the jets which could have been done in half an hour. Bit of a p!55er when the car was booked in specifically to get the ignition mapped on the dyno, but hey ho. So missed a lot of track time, added to the dyno cost made for an expensive morning really. I've not done a track day in years so forgot about needing long sleeves, had to go out in my coat as I was only wearing a T shirt . Did a couple of slow laps then came in to soften off the front shocks. The adjusting knob came off in my hand and the shocks pi55ed hydraulic fluid out everywhere. Leda coilovers bought off the zone, first time used but I've had them a few months, great buy . Did another few laps with three out of four shocks, then called it a day

Not exactly a day to remember then Brian, sorry to hear that.

Martin.

Probably a day to remember, just for all the wrong reasons . Supposed to be racing there in a fortnight, still need to sort out ignition mapping and now front shocks as well so yesterday was a step backwards rather than forwards. Ho hum

MJJ_ZX6RR- Glad you enjoyed the day out, i did notice a bit of tyre smoke in the pics, I did say take it slow and smooth which seemed to of paid of a bit a least, brakes do take a pounding and going in hard and fast straight away would had really killed them. I do love Castle Combe, fantastic circuit and very quick and easy to learn. Britcar racing weekend here we come.

Brian28- are you in PBMW (Sat) or Toyo Saloons (Sun) or both? I am probably going down on sunday with my wife and my son (his first time seeing facing first hand, he is only 3). If you are there on sun and likely to need a hand let me know in advance, i used to rally and be part of Cozens Racing (stock Hatch and Autoitalia) and can offer an extra pair of hands. Issue with cars always come at the best times, guarenteed, don't ya just love the extra work when there is always so much already to do getting ready for the next race

MJJ_ZX6RR wrote:Standard road brakes were simply unable to shed the heat needed.

I know how to sort that out, a dash of sexy 4-pot caliper rightness!

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... 9&start=24

Pretty impressive milage without things breaking though!

keri-WMS wrote:I know how to sort that out, a dash of sexy 4-pot caliper rightness!

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... 9&start=24

Pretty impressive milage without things breaking though!

Thanks Keri,

I think I will be coming your way very soon. The rears at least are now totally shot, would not be suprised if the fronts are too but will be stripping over the next couple of weeks to check.

If possible, can you try and explain (in fairly simple terms) how your brake kits would manage the heat better than OEM stuff? I found my standard brakes powerful enough, but they started to fade after 3 laps and by 10-12 laps, I would have to pull in and let things cool. I am interested to understand how your discs and calipers differ.

Martin.

It will be better vented discs and a different compound pad. you'll be supprised what a difference uprated pads on their own make (without really worn standard discs) higher friction so better stopping power but less heat. If you are going to do more and more track days, get a set of uprated discs and pads just for trackdays as a cheaper alternative to a full brake conversion. quicker to do too and parts quicker, cheaper and easier to source normally.

That said the wms kits i've heard are very good and suitable for road and track so less messing about changing discs and pads over. depends on what you want really.

In terms of heat vs a 4-pot (and larger disc) setup vs std discs and std pads here are the advantages:

- 4 pots don't have frictional losses like an OEM 1-pot has in it's sliders, so (a) you get better "feel" and (b) both pads exert the same force. This makes the pads the same temperature, and also keeps the temperature on the disc more even reducing the chances of warpage etc.

- 4 pot race pads are cheap! So a more heat resistant compound can be half the price.

- A larger disc will give you slightly more mechanical advantage (leverage) but also more thermal mass (meaning that the same energy input results in a lower temperature), and higher surface area to shift the resulting heat. Also a larger disc does a better job of pumping cooling air.

Hope that helps! There's loads more brake-geek blurb I wrote in the wiki page: www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/index.php/Brake_Upgrades

I would love better brakes but my issues is clearance and its only an M10 so not that quick, only running 15" rims. So uprated discs available for mine, just pads, so i think i would need to do a front strut conversion first. Rear are drums so not a lot can be done with them so again a rear disc conversion so its a lot of work for a 316i

m8782538 wrote:I would love better brakes but my issues is clearance and its only an M10 so not that quick, only running 15" rims.

Is that the 15" BBS? Clearance isn't a problem in them on the 280x22 size - or most 15's for that matter!

no, they are 15" BMW rims, ever seen them before, been trying to find them for the last 6 months but no luck. My car is German Import, Europe only Model so possibly similar senario for the wheels. 205/55/15, ET26 if that helps. Does it matter that the car is on 45mm struts and has the standard solid discs? would the upgrade still fit?

m8782538 wrote:no, they are 15" BMW rims, ever seen them before, been trying to find them for the last 6 months but no luck.

Do you have a photo of the wheels on your car?

Does it matter that the car is on 45mm struts and has the standard solid discs?. would the upgrade still fit?

Yep, all the same fitment as far as brakes go.