E30 Zone

If you have the standard 4-bolt E30 hubs and are interersted in upgrading your front brakes to 280mm x 22mm double ventilated discs with four-pot calipers, then right-click here and select "save target as..." to download my detailed how-to document.

This is a PDF file and will require Acrobat or similar to read it.

All of the work contained in this file is my own, including the engineering drawings, and thus I own the copyright. However, feel free to disseminate this document without alteration.

And in case anyone is wondering, I'm not trying to sell anything here, and I am certainly not in the business of manufacturing parts for anyone, so please don't ask. If you don't like my work then feel to explain why using sound engineering principles. I'm always open to constructive criticisms and I am happy to answer questions.

PDF doesn't work for me.

works for me.

Geoff, great work.

Can you tell us how much it's likely to cost for all the parts that need purchasing (Calipers, discs pads)?

Geoff, great work.

Can you tell us how much it's likely to cost for all the parts that need purchasing (Calipers, discs pads)?

Been a while since I did my brake upgrade, but if memory serves correct is was somewhere around £350 per alcon four-pot caliper and around £75 per Ferodo DS2500 disc. The pads I'm afraid I can't remember. I'm outside the UK so you'll probably find them cheaper where you are. I have dealt directly with Alcon in the UK, but I suspect that within the UK they might sell only through their agents.

I realise that the Alcon calipers are a bit pricy, but they really are a top quality product. However, if anyone wants to make the conversion using any other make of caliper I am sure its possible simply by changing (if at all necessary) the design of the caliper mounting bracket.

PDF doesn't work for me.

Sorry if anyone has problems getting to the PDF file. If left-clicking on it doesn't open it up (after some delay I guess) then right-click and select "save target as". I'm afraid our FTP server isn't the fastest, but it will download eventually.

What a fantastic document. It's really a refreshing change to see an upgrade described on a car forum in such good detail.

Excellent write up there.

I do like the choice of caliper.(The Rolls Royce of brake calipers)Well worth the £££££ that they actually cost.


Would you mind if the details/drawings etc were posted on the Zone Wiki????

Now that is one quality article/write up

Thank you very much for the positive feedback guys. I really appreciate it. It makes the effort of writing something like this worthwhile.

Would you mind if the details/drawings etc were posted on the Zone Wiki????

BadDave, I'm happy for the diagrams to be copied across to the Zone Wiki, but would appreciate it if a link is maintained to the original document for the sake of completeness.

Could you post some photos of your space framed e30 please

GeoffBob wrote:.... but if memory serves correct is was somewhere around £350 per alcon four-pot caliper and around £75 per Ferodo DS2500 disc. The pads I'm afraid I can't remember .....

Well Ferodo DS2500 are brake pads for sure, not disks...
I can't access the pdf. It doesn't exists on the server.

scaraveos wrote:Well Ferodo DS2500 are brake pads for sure, not disks...
I can't access the pdf. It doesn't exists on the server.

Just checked, its still there on the server. PM me your e-mail and I'll mail you a copy if you can't get at it. It's not a big file.

Part numbers of exact parts required are identified in the download. However, since you ask, see below for the label the on disc box:



Fortunately I still had the packaging. Looks like DS2500 to me, could be wrong

MrBenn wrote:Could you post some photos of your space framed e30 please

Will do, with pleasure, MrBenn. Some photo's here http://www.e3024v.com/board/index.php?topic=514.0 if you haven't already seen them.

I need to get some more recent pics up here on this forum as soon as I get a chance.

Nicely done!! I'm in awe! Would love to attempt something like this one day.......

How long do you think till it's finished?

MrBenn wrote: Nicely done!! I'm in awe! Would love to attempt something like this one day.......

How long do you think till it's finished?

Many thanks MrBenn, much appreciated. She's more or less finished at present. I'm just waiting for the two front wings to arrive from France, and then I'll finish off the paint work. She's perfectly driveable as she stands, and she goes like stink! Once the two front wings are on and painted I'll post some new photo's. She looks quite different at present from the old photo's, so its really time I took some new ones.

See attached the fitment and bed-in procedure for the Ferodo DS2500 280mm x 22m discs. Left-click on the image to enlarge and the text should become readable. Left-click again on the open image to enlarge the image one or more times again.

Otherwise, right-click, print, and then view with a magnifying glass

Brakes look great mate, what spacers are you using? They look about 10mm?

i want some discs..... but cant find them anywhere. ds 2500 is only bringing up pads. wheres brianmoore... he knows everything about everything.

even on ferodo's website they only list pads under the DS sections. no discs what so ever

anyone know which car the discs were originally for?

VW G60 disk are 280mm x 22mm

George_Of_The_Jungle wrote:anyone know which car the discs were originally for?

If you haven't already downloaded my how-to guide here , then please do. I go to great lengths in this document to describe the required discs, including a description of which vehicles used them. I also present detailed drawings of the discs. Note: These discs have a 17mm offset, which may differ from other 280mm x 22mm discs.

gcs325i wrote:Brakes look great mate, what spacers are you using? They look about 10mm?

Yes, 10mm spacer between wheel centre and disc. See my how-to guide to determine which spacer you will require, as this is dependent upon the rims you want to use.

Everybody, Please note:
Without this download this thread will be useless to you. There is a fair amount of engineering required to fit these discs and the verbal description of the work, as well as the detailed drawings, is beyond what I can present here.

I already know what I need just wondered what manufacturer yours were that's all.

gcs325i wrote:I already know what I need just wondered what manufacturer yours were that's all.

Sorry, thought you asked what size. I started with Isotta, 16mm, hubcentric spacers, which I machined down to 10mm once I had determined the exact size I required. I also machined up two 3mm spacers that fit between the inside face of the discs and the hubs, in order to bring the centre-line of the discs back in line with the bearing centre-line. This also pulls the iniode face of the larger discs away from the track-rod-ends, which can be a problem if left unchecked.

MR geoff bob you are a true legend where have you been hiding i have been reading your posts with great interest
especially the forced induction thread after some reading on some info it all sank into place
cheers
Ben

Got you, all ready got the 3mm ones fitted up on my set-up, but I've been looking for 10mm's for a while but will just get a set of wider ones machined down. I also managed to get the standard heat shield's to fit with a bit off fettling with a grinder to allow room for the calipers.

My set up is a rather basic 280mm 4 pot set-up in comparison to yours tho.

gcs325i wrote:Got you, all ready got the 3mm ones fitted up on my set-up, but I've been looking for 10mm's for a while but will just get a set of wider ones machined down. I also managed to get the standard heat shield's to fit with a bit off fettling with a grinder to allow room for the calipers.

My set up is a rather basic 280mm 4 pot set-up in comparison to yours tho.

Well done! Please post some pics when you get a chance.

I haven't bothered to put my heat-shields back yet, and so far haven't had any problems. But I'm keeping my eyes peeled for any signs that the rubber boots on the track-rod ends have started to burn. Without the heat shield the discs seem to cool quite effectively, but I'm prepared to put the shields back if I have to.

Remember, the idea is to choose your spacer so that the centre line of your wheel sits as close as possible to the bearing centre-line, which is 24mm deep into the hub (with disc in place). That's why the specified ET on the front of the E30 is 24mm. This will maximise your bearing life.

Since we are probably all using different rims, its likely that we all require different spacers. Unfortunately it's not always possible to get the wheel centre-line to line up with the bearing centre-line (sometimes the caliper strikes the inside face of the rim, or the tyre smacks the strut), but its always good to get the centre-lines as close to each other as possible. With the rims that I have on the front of my car at the moment I am out by 11mm, but I don't think the bearings are likely to fail catastrophically on the track, so I am happy.

I thought Isotta made a 4-bolt, PCD100, 10mm spacer, but I could be wrong? When I initially measured up I thought I would need at least a 13mm spacer, so I bought 16mm spacers with the intention of taking off 3mm. But in the end this figure came down to 10mm, which is better.

The Isotta part number is S1026C and can be found at http://www.isotta.com. To anyone else reading this, don't use these spacers unless you are certain that they won't result in an excessively reduced ET when added to your wheels. Even if you are prepared to change your bearings regularly, you don't want to increase the scrub-radius on a track car as this will result in brake-steer.

My reason for the spacer is to allow clearance for the caliper from the inner wheel face on a standard 15" bbs rim (which will require a 12mm spacer) taking the ET closer to 12 or on a 16" borbet A I'll require a 10mm spacer taking the standard offset of ET20 to ET10, which judging by my current rims which are ET13 should handle reasonably well. Obviously as mine is not a track car there is not as much constant abuse on every part of the car. There's some pics in the link in my sig under the picture.

gcs325i wrote:My reason for the spacer is to allow clearance for the caliper from the inner wheel face on a standard 15" bbs rim (which will require a 12mm spacer)

Yeh, I know that feeling. That really is the only reason I have to have the spacer as well. Using the 15" x 7J Gottis shown in my how-to guide (will also work for 16" Gottis) the spacer provides the required clearance around the caliper and the wheel centre line is only 1mm to the side of the bearing centre line. A great solution!!

Sadly, I cut my front struts 30mm lower (lowered the strut towers) and now have coil-overs running behind my tyres, so I had to reduce the inner Gotti barrels from 7" to 6", so I now have 11mm extra srub-radius that I didn't want. But she holds together and goes like stink so I'm happy

gcs325i wrote:taking the ET closer to 12 or on a 16" borbet A I'll require a 10mm spacer taking the standard offset of ET20 to ET10, which judging by my current rims which are ET13 should handle reasonably well. Obviously as mine is not a track car there is not as much constant abuse on every part of the car. There's some pics in the link in my sig under the picture

I understand. Should work just fine. Great pics and nice workshop by the way. Mazda 4-pots, nice! I hadn't seen that thread yet. Thanks.

GeoffBob wrote:Thank you very much for the positive feedback guys. I really appreciate it. It makes the effort of writing something like this worthwhile.

Would you mind if the details/drawings etc were posted on the Zone Wiki????

BadDave, I'm happy for the diagrams to be copied across to the Zone Wiki, but would appreciate it if a link is maintained to the original document for the sake of completeness.

I'll put something up on the wiki and link back for your approval.

hoshy wrote:

GeoffBob wrote:Thank you very much for the positive feedback guys. I really appreciate it. It makes the effort of writing something like this worthwhile.

Would you mind if the details/drawings etc were posted on the Zone Wiki????

BadDave, I'm happy for the diagrams to be copied across to the Zone Wiki, but would appreciate it if a link is maintained to the original document for the sake of completeness.

I'll put something up on the wiki and link back for your approval.

Thanks Hoshy, much appreciated.

Thought I'd bump this seeing as some discussion around brake upgrades has resurfaced.

How's your rear upgrade going Geoff?

Received the Z1 rear discs and Alcon 2-piston calipers, but thus far have not begun the upgrade. Much too busy finishing off other things on the car at the moment.

How much did the disks and callipers cost? - most BBK's I've seen are 1500 dollars from the states, so should be a massive saving.