Brake upgrades: Hi-Spec & Wilwood

[oldbimmer]

Does anyone here have any comments to make on the relative merits of Hi-Spec & Wilwood products???

Opinions seem to vary from person to person. I'm currently preparing my car for some more track action this year and am considering an upgrade to 4 pot calipers and 280mm discs (to fit under BBS 15").

Any input appreciated..

[funky-monkey]

As far as I have read, Wilwood are very good for a budget product. But stay the hell away from Hi-Spec there stuff is meant to be that bad and service that is very abusive that they have gained there own complaint website. It was on here not so long ago.

[northloop]

Is a brake upgrade actually required? Would uprated discs and pads not suffice?

Interested as I will be at this point in the non too distant.....

I was thinking of running something like standard discs with pagid yellow endurance pads. I know these will speed up how quickly I kill the discs but so be it, you cant have it all.

Gary

[funky-monkey]

I run pagid rs-29's on the front of mine, and once you have a bit of heat into them they are great and I've had no problems with them killing the disks although I'm told the compound was recently changed so the old ones may have been bad for that. As for big brakes, unless you are full on racing then the standard callipers with up rated pads, fluid and lines will be more than enough.

[northloop]

I used to use them on my old subaru. They worked fine. Obviously they are more agressive than standard pads and will therefore use discs at a faster pace.

[oldbimmer]

Very interesting about Hi-Spec. I have seen a rather nasty website dedicated to moaning about their after sales service. People simply don't waste their time putting together a complaint website unless they are REALLY p*ssed off!

The real question though - Are standard calipers with uprated discs and pads good enough for hard use at a trackday??

For the '04/'05 trackday seasons I used my trusty old 320i (with drums at the back ). I made sure the braking system generally was in A1 condition. I then added ATE powerdiscs, Goodridge hoses and EBC Redstuff pads. I found this to be a good combination BUT I had to treat the brakes with a little respect and did no more than 5-6 laps before a cool down.

This year I have an E30 323i with all round discs, so maybe a disc, pad and hose upgrade would be sufficient.????

However, I feel an upgrade to slightly bigger discs and perhaps more importantly, losing the single pot sliding cailpers would be in order for serious use.

It would be good to hear from anyone who has a Wilwood (or other) upgrade in use at the moment

[Lloydie38]

I know Taffy has willwood and he really rates them on his race cars, he advised me to get them but make sure you put dcent pads in them - Miltech.

If you search in Motorsport section you will find the thread..
Cheers

Ian

[oldbimmer]

I know Taffy has willwood and he really rates them on his race cars, he advised me to get them but make sure you put dcent pads in them - Miltech.

If you search in Motorsport section you will find the thread..
Cheers

Ian

Will have a look. Thanks..

Miltech??? Never heard of them.

Do you use Wilwood yourself then??

[lancelot]

You don't mention what car you are running, but here goes my little story with my e30 M3. I pretty much use my car soley for track use and just general enjoyment. It's still fully trimmed, but is fairly handy on track. I did all the normal tweaks, hoses, fluid, better pads, backing plates and proper brake vents. The stock brakes worked and stopped the car, but I was filling my garage with toasted disks. Ultimatley, the problem is this. BMW just love to supply their cars with nasty cast iron calipers, as you may know AGA cookers are made from cast iron. The reason, cast iron retains heat really rather well. So couple that to some nice hot disks and you have yourself a nice minature Aga at the bottom of each strut leg, gently cooking all the braking components to hell. One of the reasons people like Porsche fit alloy based calipers is not just because they look funky, but becaus ethey shed heat a lot better. So I took the plunge and went and bought a set of AP's for the car. It's the best upgrade I have ever done. Yes they are expensive, but you pay once and the job is done. Apart from an interim clean up done last year, I haven't touched them in 2 years. The pads are still spot on, the disks are perfect and they stop like a very stoppy thing. Save your money and get the best.

Rgds

Roops

[oldbimmer]

What a great analogy - an AGA cooker!

Thanks for your input.. I fully agree with your philosophy of buying quality kit - My road car (E36 M3 evo) is treated to the best kit money can buy. As a result, my new track toy (E30 323i) will have to be completed on a reasonable budget. We'll see... Even the best plans don't always work out.

[Lloydie38]

Take the AGA prepared hot disks off, pop the tin kettle on and 4 mins later hot water for a nice cup of tea - Champion

[kam]

I've got a set of Wilwood 4 pot Superlite Radial mounts on my E21 323i. I haven't seen any track action with them yet, hope to be seeing some this year, but for fast road use they're great. Can't complain and didn't cost the earth either, much better than standard items.

[oldbimmer]

Very intersting Kam. Did you buy them from Rally Design as a complete kit?? If so, did everything fit OK out of the box??

What pads are you using??

[Turbo-Brown]

Got the Midilite kit and 280mm discs on mine. Again not ever been near a track but they're without doubt better than the original stoppers!

Of course the other advantage of alloy calipers is that they tend to weigh less than iron ones which has a positive effect on road holding and comfort etc.

[kam]

Oldbimmer, When I had my car in for some work last year, I got my mechanic to order them (not sure where) and he had alloy mounting brackets CNC'd up on site (he's got a cnc machine). Cost me £700 supply and fit with the braided hoses too. I would recommend them, and I know the stuff Rally Design do is good, have heard good things about them.

The pads at the moment are Mintex 1144's I think. There is a Mintex track Pad he recommended, which I will be ordering when I get to track it a bit. Disks are black diamond grooved & vented.

Here's a few pics of them just about visible behind my 15" Alpina's:

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i264/ ... G_0813.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i264/ ... G_0791.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i264/ ... 600287.jpg

[Taffy]

I ran the Wilwood kit on our old E30 race car, in fact the current owner still uses them, when I 1st got them I thought they looked cheap but having tested them i was amazed how good they are for the money, stunning value and I would highly recommend them, wouldn't touch Hi Spec, garbage IMO, Wilwood or AP's but the Wilwood are a 1/4 of the price

[oldbimmer]

Thanks for your input guys..

Kam, cheers for the pics - are the discs larger than standard?? (i.e 280mm)

Turbo Brown - I've got my eye on Midilite, with 280mm discs like yours. If thats enough to keep a twin turbo 325i honest, then I suspect they will be fine for me! - 2 Turbos? How did you do that??

Taffy - What pads do you recommend???

[kam]

Mate, mine are only 255mm standad spec, it's an E21 323 not an E30. Works OK at the moment with the power I'm putting down. Go for them, you won't regret it, well I didn't!

[keri-WMS]

Does anyone here have any comments to make on the relative merits of Hi-Spec & Wilwood products???

Opinions seem to vary from person to person. I'm currently preparing my car for some more track action this year and am considering an upgrade to 4 pot calipers and 280mm discs (to fit under BBS 15").

Any input appreciated.. :)

Our WMS 280mm kit fits under 15" BBS's as another option. Also we've been looking into the pads that are available to fit WMS calipers and have found the part numbers for:

1) EBC (Green (yuk!), Red, Yellow, Blue) - we can supply these with the kits.
2) Carbotech (Panther / Panther Plus / Panther XP etc)
3) Ferodo (DS2500 / DS3000 / 4003 / DS1.11 / DS2.11 etc)
4) Pagid (RS4-2 blue etc)
5) Mintex (M1144 / 1155 / 1166 etc)
6) Performance Friction (various conpounds)
7) Hawk (various conpounds)
8) Wilwood (their pads....)

LINKS:

Zone Shop WMS thread (with photos): http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... ic&t=34867

Our most track-addicted E30 kit buyer so far: http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... ic&t=43391

[funky-monkey]

Keri,
What's the difference between your stuff and Wilwood?

[oldbimmer]

Keri,

In addition to the above questions,

Who makes these calipers?? Would be great to learn more about WMS as a company/organisation..

Cheers.

[Turbo-Brown]

2 Turbos? How did you do that??

with great difficulty, which is why I'm doing it again, only much more complex this time

[keri-WMS]

Keri,

In addition to the above questions,

Who makes these calipers?? Would be great to learn more about WMS as a company/organisation..

Cheers.

I've been running WMS for a few years but that's still pretty new and we're expanding rapidly, we're based in the UK and the machining/manufacture is split between several outside suppliers to get the best quality, performance and value we can for the customer's money.

What's the difference between your stuff and Wilwood?

They are quite close in terms of specifications (CNC macined billet aluminium, race use, share the common motorsport pad formats etc etc) but Wilwood has no relationship whatsoever with WMS!! (..other than competing with each other of course! )

[Turbo-Brown]

Out of interest how much difference does Wilwood forging of some of their more recent calipers make to their performance, deflections etc?

[fuzzy]

As far as I have read, Wilwood are very good for a budget product. But stay the hell away from Hi-Spec there stuff is meant to be that bad and service that is very abusive that they have gained there own complaint website. It was on here not so long ago.

would you happen to have a link to this complaint site? i was considering hi spec for mine

[keri-WMS]

Out of interest how much difference does Wilwood forging of some of their more recent calipers make to their performance, deflections etc?

I can't run any tests on their stuff so I don't know myself. It probably makes less difference than design details though...? Bridge bolts etc help, but flex is always a trade-off against weight and size.