Track suspension advice

All the info you need to race E30's

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Black_Potato
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Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:30 pm

redcar wrote:Black_Potato, i find it highly amusing that you're quick to point out that people on here don't have a clue about suspension setup etc. Yet you appear to have little idea about what parts are actually fitted to your car! Would the parts i've asked you about (subframe bushes for example) not form a vital part towards how you are expressing your opinions regarding suspension setup?
i have been very transparent and know my limitations, i also pay others to prep my cars so dont claim to know every nut and bolt.

how about you contribute?
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Demlotcrew
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Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:02 pm

I do all my own work on all my cars, I have spent a lot of time and money developing the chassis, suspension and brakes, fine tuning and optimising every system and process as I go. I let my car do all the talking, despite everything else including my abrasive communications skills, once you see and experience what I've made you'll soon sir come to my way of thinking, not because I'm persuasive but because it works and works very well! :)
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redcar
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Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:32 pm

Black_Potato wrote:
redcar wrote:Black_Potato, i find it highly amusing that you're quick to point out that people on here don't have a clue about suspension setup etc. Yet you appear to have little idea about what parts are actually fitted to your car! Would the parts i've asked you about (subframe bushes for example) not form a vital part towards how you are expressing your opinions regarding suspension setup?
i have been very transparent and know my limitations, i also pay others to prep my cars so dont claim to know every nut and bolt.

how about you contribute?
i did contribute! Best to settle things on the track tbh.
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Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:29 am

Exactly! :)

When is your next practice and at what track? It would be good to see your car in action.
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Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:07 am

redcar wrote: did contribute! Best to settle things on the track tbh.
What exactly? I've yet to see you say anything of any value. How would you going out in his car show you anything? You'd just be like the rest if the Billy's who just sit there grinning like idiots 'because race car' or what ever the plebs say. I also expect the test days mr patato does are proper test days where you need a lisence so's to get away from as many dangerous 'I've seen the fast and the furious' muppets as possible.
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Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:10 am

Now now Rix, that's a bit harsh! Anyone can get a race licence, you can then race in Formula 1 :)
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Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:16 am

That's why I didn't say get away from 'all' the dangerous muppets lol.

On another note, putting down people 'just because they do P8R' is a bit if a low blow. Yeah sure it's not WTCC however the regs are just as tight and its just as much about setup and driver skill. At least he's out there doing it :thumb:
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Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:28 am

I've looked at P8 many many times, the fees are a fraction of khumo that's now full of rich teams and is boring to watch and the regs are far more relaxed.

I'm very keen to get in to racing, but I'm being drawn to a radical series, it's far more driver dependant.

Just need to keep working on the business so I can finance it.
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Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:39 am

Have you looked at CSCC Tintops? That's what I call value, £350 for 30minute practice and a 40minute race and you can share the driving to save costs if you want or go solo. There as quite a wide range of cars but makes for interesting racing. It's what I'm aiming towards. The regs are a little more open than P8 however.
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Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:23 am

rix313 wrote:
redcar wrote: did contribute! Best to settle things on the track tbh.
What exactly? I've yet to see you say anything of any value. How would you going out in his car show you anything? You'd just be like the rest if the Billy's who just sit there grinning like idiots 'because race car' or what ever the plebs say. I also expect the test days mr patato does are proper test days where you need a lisence so's to get away from as many dangerous 'I've seen the fast and the furious' muppets as possible.
Really? Are these test track days where you need a race license much different to normal track days?

I've been to rockingham on a normal track day where there were two e30s that competed in some championship. They weren't fast at all. Maybe because they have so many regulations to abide by.
I'd just like to go and see how fast his car is and maybe learn something from it?
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Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:34 am

rix313 wrote:Have you looked at CSCC Tintops? That's what I call value, £350 for 30minute practice and a 40minute race and you can share the driving to save costs if you want or go solo. There as quite a wide range of cars but makes for interesting racing. It's what I'm aiming towards. The regs are a little more open than P8 however.
I remember the site, but I never looked at it seriously, I think these guys also ran the Snet 24hr?

Looks good, do you have to sign up for a full season?
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Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:03 pm

I just had a good look over the Regs, they look ok to me, except that TinTops has a max CC limit of 2000 so thats all my cars out of the question. :(

There is the Deutschemarque series 8)
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redcar
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Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:05 pm

Demlotcrew wrote:I just had a good look over the Regs, they look ok to me, except that TinTops has a max CC limit of 2000 so thats all my cars out of the question. :(

There is the Deutschemarque series 8)
sr20! winkeye
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Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:21 pm

Must have original factory engine.
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Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:31 pm

Must have original factory engine.
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Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:13 pm

Its a new day so lets agree the E30 is a great car and its cool people have differnet ways of making them go fast :bmw:

Just to clarify on the P8 bits etc...

Project 8 Racing is a company that holds the MSA permit to go racing. P8R then runs 2 race series the Production BMW Cup which is based on E30 318i and 320i and Racing Saloons which is mixed make pre 93 saloon cars, more similar to tintops etc.

In PBMW Cars built very much to OEM spec (120bhp 318i-140bhp 320i). The main custom component on these cars is the dampers/springs which are free based on 1 way adjustment. Roll cages, adjustable top mounts, bushes (non solid) are allowed. there are more changes you can make but its basically a case of blue printing a BMW car and letting driver tallent show. The winning drivers here are very quick, for example this years winner is Ben Winrow winner of the Clio Cup, Fiat Arbarth 500 etc.. feel free to look him up but he wouldnt be out classed in BTCC, previous winners such as Rob Smith are racing at the ring in modern M3's etc..
Entries.. something like 100 drivers per year, so nothing to do with me I can hand on heart say its serious racing and its far from easy. Cost £5-15k per anum I would have thought. Cars likewise £5-15k to build.

RS is a lot more open, its class based pre 93 saloon cars of lots of makes, some drivers just go because its a bit of fun to run their favorite car around racing with whatever is near them rather than considering out right winds. Others are people who are very quick link John but dont really want to empty many thousands down the drain in some other series. Still running at the front in the more competitive classes could easily see 10's of thousands spent per year.

Re Test days, yes you need a race license, your car needs to be able pass scruitineering etc.. There are no real rules as such as there are on track days and timing is very much part of it.

If you want to get an idea of the pace of either series, look at TSL timming at say Brands hatch Indy and you will get an idea of what times people can put in. A well driven PBMW car is down in the 58's, TTRS are very varied but I expect my car will be capable of a 56, although maybe not with me driving !

Re engines, pretty ,much all race series are based on a standard block to start with, if not they are somthing like sport Libre which is real cheque book racing like you have never seen. I actually came to the E30 after several lotus some of which had non standard engines which whilst fun are not of much use to go racing with.
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Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:48 pm

Demlotcrew wrote: I remember the site, but I never looked at it seriously, I think these guys also ran the Snet 24hr?

Looks good, do you have to sign up for a full season?
Demlotcrew wrote:I just had a good look over the Regs, they look ok to me, except that TinTops has a max CC limit of 2000 so thats all my cars out of the question. :(

There is the Deutschemarque series 8)
Quite a few Kumho guys went over to Deutschemarques after getting bored with the Kumho championship. A few were band though as the Kumho cars are slightly freer in terms of regs so used to turn up, beat every one then bugger off which annoyed them some what. It took a while for CSCC to realise before doing anything about it.

When I spoke to the CSCC about doing a race the summer just gone, they offer a taster race where you don't have to resgister the car or sign up to the club for a year, you just have to register for that race. Ultimatly it means you can go and do a race with them and if you don't like it you haven't wasted money signing up etc for a year then not using it.

The 24hr at Snett is the 2CV one. There's the 360 motor club which do the 6 hour race at Snett though which I fancy doing next year if time and funds allow.
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Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:44 pm

Found this image floating around on the net, notice the rather large rear ARB winkeye

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Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:24 pm

Oh look, a racing car.... :mad:
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Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:33 pm

You should tell him to take it off Dan :teehee:
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redcar
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Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:53 pm

Spot the 28mm rear ARB :mad:
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Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:58 pm

That's 28mm too thick! Doh :)
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redcar
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Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:08 pm

Demlotcrew wrote:That's 28mm too thick! Doh :)
Shall I tell him to disconnect it at the next DN?
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Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:08 pm

Demlotcrew wrote:You should tell him to take it off Dan :teehee:
Definitely doesnt run standard road suspension, slicks, and I dont think for one minute it has an open diff. Maybe you should phone him to make sure? While your on ask him how thick the bar is, maybe ask him out for a date too as you sure have the horn for a rear anti roll bar atm
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Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:14 pm

Forgive me DanThe, clearly the OP was asking for suspension advice for a road car, to be used on the road :)
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redcar
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Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:18 pm

Dan, doesn't your track car have coilovers, semi slicks and an epic diff?
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Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:41 pm

Harj when I took the bar off the car was on E36 rear dampers, B6 fronts, eibach springs and had an open diff, 10 year old goodyear tyres and oversteered like a bastard.
Ive gradually been changing bits as I go, changed to the torsen diff and it obviously improved things, then H&R coilovers, loads better, I fitted Gaz golds at the weekend and the 75% lock diff a few weeks ago, the bar is hanging on the wall, it will be going back on soon
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Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:46 pm

Ok cool, how come you changed from h & r coil overs to gaz golds? Were you not impressed with the h and r, I would have assumed that they're better than the gaz
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redcar
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Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:46 pm

Ok, fair enough. how come you changed from h & r coil overs to gaz golds? Were you not impressed with the h and r, I would have assumed that they're better than the gaz
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Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:44 pm

Reasons I changed was due to the adjustability and a set came up at a great price with hardly any use, ive not done anywhere near enough track days to get the car set up properly, ive no doubt I could use the H&R with other mods and be happy with them, ive mostly been going off what other E30's around me are doing and trying it out, its just a track day car that I mess with in my spare time and have a few days out in every now and then.
Unfortunately I havnt developed my chassis or optimised my cock stroking process, im not trying to build a pretend group A racer and im not here to knock anybodies efforts or blow any trumpets, just for fun :wink:
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Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:52 pm

Fair enough mate. Suppose everyone's expectations and desired are different :)

What have you done with the h&r, would you be interested in selling them
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Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:40 am

DanThe wrote: im not here to knock anybodies efforts or blow any trumpets, just for fun :wink:
Oh don't be such a grown up, much better to try and take the pi55. When this is done from personal experience of trying different set ups and finding a set up that suits preferred driving style and other bits of the car package - on a race track not McDs car park - then fair enough, when it is done from a position of limited - if any - track based experience of different set ups, it's all a bit sad really.

Anyway, the really important suspension questions that haven't yet been addressed. Is -60 drop Ok on the front, or would -80 look cooler? And would I have to roll my arches to fit 10 x 16s with a 225 stretched? :snigger:
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Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:59 am

DanThe wrote:Reasons I changed was due to the adjustability and a set came up at a great price with hardly any use, ive not done anywhere near enough track days to get the car set up properly, ive no doubt I could use the H&R with other mods and be happy with them, ive mostly been going off what other E30's around me are doing and trying it out, its just a track day car that I mess with in my spare time and have a few days out in every now and then.
Unfortunately I havnt developed my chassis or optimised my c**k stroking process, im not trying to build a pretend group A racer and im not here to knock anybodies efforts or blow any trumpets, just to sell my wares :wink:
:)
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Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:51 am

What works for one driver doesn't mean it works for all drivers IMHO. Driving styles is a big part of suspension setup. Somebody who is a hard late braker will prefer a different setting compared to the fast at apex driver etc.
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Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:51 am

What works for one driver doesn't mean it works for all drivers IMHO. Driving styles is a big part of suspension setup. Somebody who is a hard late braker will prefer a different setting compared to the fast at apex driver etc.
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