E30 Zone

Hi Folks,

Does anyone know the law regarding moving a vehicle that is currently SORN, I know it can't be driven, but can it be towed?
I want to move my touring to the bodyshop for some work and was wondering if this is legal, the car has no tax or MOT.

Any info much appreciated.

Jamie

no, i think you would have to trailer it. or wait till late at night then drive it

jon

Think a trailer is the way - that is unless the bodyshop also does MOT's and you "book it in" for one - assuming that the car isn't an obvious weighbridge dodger you could probably get away with it in that case in the event that you did get stopped

If its not insured though forget it - get a trailer.

Thanks for the info guys, the car has no insurance, tax or MOT!! Its no weighbridge dodger and it's certainly not a car I would like to lose to the law!!(I've been told they get pounded).

Mmmm looks like I'm gonna have to find someone who can trailer it for me, can't believe you're not allowed to move a car, it's not like I would be driving it around! I have tax,mot & Insurance on my other car(the one that would be doing the towing) Ah well atleast I know, so thanks again for your replies.

Regards

Jamie

cant you tow it on a rope

don't think towing and untaxed, un MOT'd, uninsured car either by rope or solid bar is legal - pretty sure its gotta be on a trailer.

You can legally tow it with an A-frame (or you could)

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... ight=frame

How far has it got to go?

About 8 to 10 miles, then the same journey back(obviously!!).

If it was only a couple of miles id risk driving it,
but a 20 mile round trip is a different story

Oh Lee thanks for the link, looks like I'm gonna be on the scrounge for a driver with a trailer!!

You can tow it with an A frame....not worth the risk driving it.

It'll get crushed!!!

Definately would not risk driving it, no way could I see it go to the crusher!! Unfortunately I don't have a towbar fitted to my car(pardon my ignorance, I'm presuming you need one for an A Frame!!) That's why I was wondering if I could do it with a solid towing bar fitted to the towing eye, but it's a no-no, got an idea of someone who might have a trailer and will have to offer the reddies and get it done thay way, atleast I know the law now so thanks to everyone who has replied.

Regards

Jamie

could you borrow some trade plates?

trade plates or trailor

Trailer and take the plates off just to be sure!

Put it in the post and let Postman Pat come and pick it up and take it to the bodyshop - you just need some few staps!

An a frame would leave the rear wheels on the road it is then classed as being used on the road this is against the terms of SORN therefore you may only move it on a trailer since no part of a untaxed vehicle may be used or stored on a public highway!

If that were not the case every pikey that wanted to store their untaxed car in the road could do by jacking the front of the car up!

Phone up your local "MOT failures bought for cash" type guy and offer him a few quid to stick it on his low loader! He's getting minimal money for scrap at the
moment and should be thankful for the extra cash income!

march109 wrote:An a frame would leave the rear wheels on the road it is then classed as being used on the road this is against the terms of SORN therefore you may only move it on a trailer since no part of a untaxed vehicle may be used or stored on a public highway!

March my man,it has nothing to do with the amount of wheels on the ground.
Using an A frame,or indeed a solid tow pole renders the car a "trailer" in terms of the law.
The ONLY requirements that are needed are legal tyres and working back lights( a trailer board can also be used if no rear lights are present).
You would of course need trailer entitlement on your license to tow though.

My understanding from a traffic officer friend is that regardless it is not legally classed as a trailer!! Since it has it's own methedrine of propulsion and brakes, remove the engine and brakes or tie the braking system into that of the towed vehicle and a copper would be hard pushed to prove it's not a trailer but other wise you are stuffed, this is also the advice given by the AA and RAC, go on phone them!!

The won't tow a untaxed vehicle because it's illegal intact they won't recover an untaxed vehicle at all because of the new rules meaning they need what's known as an o licence!

If your an aa or rac member they will happily give you this advice for free over the phone!

Sorn means statutory off road notification, no part if the car may be on the public highway or land at all! If you push it would you argue it's not a car it's a wheelbarrow?? Just towing it two wheels off the ground doesn't make it a trailer!!

The penalty is I believe a maximum of £5000 fine and or imprisonment, that said I've done it and used the old mot excuse and it worked a treat though in fairness I was moving it to storage 2 minutes away to sort it for the mot.

I guess this is where the confusion arrives,my info was also from a copper. I think really it's a case then of luck,i've pulled many untaxed,uninsured nails on a tow pole in front of coppers without so much as a raised eyebrow. Yet there are people on here who seem to have had bother.
IIRC the AA & RAC have never recovered any cars with no tax,my brother got in trouble about 12 years ago because of this,his engine blew,the AA collected it,and propmptly reported the fact he had no tax.
Good old "grey area" situation

march109 wrote:Phone up your local "MOT failures bought for cash" type guy and offer him a few quid to stick it on his low loader! He's getting minimal money for scrap at the
moment and should be thankful for the extra cash income!

Or go round to your bodyshop as ask them to collect/return the car

It is I agree a grey area perhaps why the dvla don't provide any clear guidance on their website, frankly the won't like anything that doesn't fill the government coffers with shekkels. As you say many of us have got away with it but put in more complex terms as I understood the description:

a towed vehicle can only be classed as a trailer if it is not capable of propelling itself and/or it is under 750 kg if it is over 750 kg then it must be a braked trailer and all wheels (even including those not on the ground must have brakes keeping to the letter of the law) that must be working in tandem with that of the towing vehicle. Also the weight is determined by the manufacturer weight as stamped on a plate in the vehicle not the actual weight (in the case of stripped out track cars).

Also the "trailer" must conform to all nomal trailer rules ie. Functioning tail lights and didplaying tow vehicle reg. And the manufacturer weight must also be within the maximum towing weight of the tow vehicle which is stamped on that vehicles information plate!

And on top of all that you must have the relevent drivers licence to tow.

If you come up against a particuarly anal copper he will get you for something!

You two are both as bad as each other, why do you think a copper would tell you the truth?

Rog, if somebody is steering a car or has even the slightest amount of control over it then in the eyes of the law they are driving

DanThe wrote:You two are both as bad as each other, why do you think a copper would tell you the truth?

Rog, if somebody is steering a car or has even the slightest amount of control over it then in the eyes of the law they are driving

because we happen to be related (by marriage), she would be in the shit if I got "done" on the basis of her advice, though in this case she has simply said it's not possible to do it and keep to the letter of the law.

nm1 wrote:trade plates or trailor

old traffic cop saying regarding trade plates " red on white, stop on sight " trade plates are like a red rag, begging to be pulled for a thorough check especially of it's an old/tatty/cheap car!

march109 wrote:

DanThe wrote:You two are both as bad as each other, why do you think a copper would tell you the truth?

Rog, if somebody is steering a car or has even the slightest amount of control over it then in the eyes of the law they are driving

because we happen to be related (by marriage), she would be in the shit if I got "done" on the basis of her advice, though in this case she has simply said it's not possible to do it and keep to the letter of the law.

Fair enough
I take my hat off to you, I wouldnt be able to sleep at night

She's not married to me!

march109 wrote:

nm1 wrote:trade plates or trailor

old traffic cop saying regarding trade plates " red on white, stop on sight " trade plates are like a red rag, begging to be pulled for a thorough check especially of it's an old/tatty/cheap car!

Just drive it through Cheshire, Greater Manchester, Lancashire and West Yorkshire then...seems they don't care there

A friend drove their car from Chester to Huddersfield on borrowed TPs with no tax, MOT or insurance. Plod didn't bat an eyelid when we went past them on the '62

(guess we were just lucky)

But back on topic, what's it going to the bodyshop for? MOT repairs?

If so, just book it into your local MOT station for a few days after it's going to the bodyshop then get the bodyshop (which will undoubtedly have some) to lend you their trade plates and drive it there. If you are unlucky enough to get stopped then you are on your way to the bodyshop to have your car fixed so that it will pass its MOT when you take it for the one it has booked...

A trailer is the only legal way. If you were to drive it to an MOT station for a pre booked test then you would need insurance.

If an A frame is used then it does have to meet "trailer" spec ie over 750kg then it will need braking etc.

This is why the number of motorhomes towing small cars is diminishing; because they are classed as trailers and if over 750kg they do not have brakes and lights. Althugh I believe there is one company that does supply apparatus to allow the "trailer" brakes to work.

hennabm wrote:A trailer is the only legal way. If you were to drive it to an MOT station for a pre booked test then you would need insurance.

If an A frame is used then it does have to meet "trailer" spec ie over 750kg then it will need braking etc.

This is why the number of motorhomes towing small cars is diminishing; because they are classed as trailers and if over 750kg they do not have brakes and lights. Althugh I believe there is one company that does supply apparatus to allow the "trailer" brakes to work.

So in effect,towing using an 'A' frame is illegal unless the towed vehicle wieghs less than 750kg?

I believe there is an exemption totow a broken down vehicle with soemone in it as the brakes can then be applied etc. But towing an empty car over 750kg with no braking capacity may well be on the "wrong side ".

There are A frames availble with a braking system, there is a mechanism where the frame attachs to the tow-ball, and when you brake the towing vehicle it moves some arms and pulls on a cable that travels through the window of the car being towed to inside the vehicle, then a bracket is attached to the seat base and a rod will push onto the brake pedal activating the brakes of the towed vehicle when you brake. There is adjustment in the mechanism so you only need a small percentage of the brakes to be applied. Its quite expensive to buy one (IIRC £600), but ideal if you dont want a trailor and want to tow cars the legal way as most cars weigh over 750kg.

As regards to a SORN'd vehicle, it states it must not be kept on the road, or used on the road (IE being driven under its own power), however it does not mention being towed.