E30 Zone

Hi Guys, This past week has been a nightmare and I'm looking for some advice on my options.

I went to a trader to view a Titan Silver E46 323Ci for my wife on Saturday 7th June. I decided to buy it as "sold as seen" with no warranty but the car would have an oil & filter change done before collection.

The car was collected on Friday 13th June (can you see where this is going?) and was driven about 40 miles to my home and parked in my garage for a fortnight while I waited for the private number plate transfer from her E36 318is Coupe to be carried out.

During this time I de-chromed the window trims, fitted clear side repeaters & L.E.D. rear lights, installed 2 x 12" subs & amp in boot and cleaned the entire car inside & out (clay barred, Meguiars paint cleaner, polish & wax).

The car was put on the road on Monday 1st July.

Last Saturday morning (19th July) my wife was driving to work and had only travelled a few miles from home when she heard a knocking noise from the engine. She immediately pulled over and shut the engine off. She phoned me and I drove my works van over to where she had stopped. I started the engine and as soon as I heard the noise I shut it off immediately. I knew that there was internal engine damage straight away. I then drove the wife to work in my van and returned to where the car was parked and got a mate to tow the car to my mechanic.

On Monday after work I went to the garage where the car had been towed to. The oil filter had been removed and the oil was drained from the sump. This is what the findings were -



































Now obviously the oil & filter change had not been carried out as promised by the seller. The filter is so badly clogged that it has caused oil starvation to the engine. The oil is like treacle & the filter has started to disintegrate and there are metal filings in the oil & filter. At the very least the engine is going to need new bearing shells and obviously worst case is a new engine. The extent of damage won't be known untill it is investigated further.

I phoned the seller straight away and the first thing I said was "Can you confirm that the oil service was done on my car before the sale" to which he replied "Yes it was. I paid for it to be done." I then explained the entire situation and he stated that I was not to worry about it and that he would get it repaired, either by getting the garage who he had originally paid to carry out the oil service to foot the bill or by paying for it directly himself and recovering the cost back from them.

Now he is saying that because the car was "sold as seen" he does not have any obligation to pay a penny towards the repair cost but he is willing to pay £300 towards the final bill as a "good will gesture"!

£300 is not even going to put a dent in the final cost of this and as far as I'm concerned he can stick his £300. I'd rather drag this out through the court with the possibility of losing than accept a poxy offer like that.

Any advice would be much appreciated.




(A very p1ssed off Taylor.)

If he is a registered trader "sold as seen" shouldn't hold in court as the car has to be fit for purpose.

I'd see consumer advice bureau (is that what it's called? CAB?) to see what options you have. Nail the lying bastard to a wall but remember - your goal is not to get revenge, it's to get money from them

Hi , I am a trader and I am well aware of the law concerning this kind of thing. If he is VAT registered you have some rights. Most people do not realise this but as a trader you have to provide a 3 month warranty with any sale over (£1500) I think. Unless for example your invoice states that there is a crack in the windscreen then that is obviously not covered but in general the law is like this.

CAR sold from private to private = no comebacks
CAR sold from private to trade = no comebacks
CAR sold from trade to trade = no comebacks ( although generally sort out amicably to continue business)
CAR sold from trade to private = statutory 3 month warranty for major defects.

You should contact you local trading standards office and your Citizens advice and I am sure that they will confirm what I am saying.

The problem is that it is most likely that the guy you bought from will mysteriously not be VAT registered and will disappear to a new caravan park somewhere

I was going to say the 3 months thing although I wasn't aware of the over 1500 quid part. That would be handy to know for sure.

What sort of trader was he? As the last guy (sorry don't know name) is thinking, was it some backstreet "been ther 2 weeks" type of merchant of was he an established business. This will make a big difference.

did you get it in writing that the oil service etc would be carried out?

You need to speak to the trader find out where he got the oil service done.

Make sure he got a receipt for it take a copy of the receipt with the oil filter to trading standards immediately and inform ministry of transport.

do you have a receipt of purchase for the vehicle?

if you pm me the chassis i can see when it last visited a bmw dealer

Cant see what the vat registration would have to do with it or the amount paid. I had to go through a similar thing with an e30 convertible I got from a dealer and I am sure it all boils down to fit for the purpose.
The first thing you should do mate is phone your local trading standars before you do anything else.
Andrew

further to the above comments.

It was a condition of sale that an oil & filter change was done, so the guy is in breach of contract.

You probably have no written evidence of this yet, so it is worth trying to see if you can somehow get him to acknowledge in an email about the oil & filter change and then he has no way of denying of the existence of such agreement.

Then it would be worth asking him to provide you with a copy receipt for the oil & filter change he allegedly paid the other garage to do.

This will get messy and drag on for a while, but odds are you should eventually see a result.

If you have legal protection policy also known as "family legal protection" with a home & contents insurance policy, that will usually give you access to a solicitor free of charge and they will argue the case for you, but you do of course need to gather the above bits of evidence.

It's not what you know, but what you can prove.

It's easy to be wise after the event, but I would have checked the oil and engine thoroughly prior to parting with my hard-earned. In this case, I suspect an oil & filter change wouldn't necessarily have made alot of difference if it's been neglected over a long period Hope you get compensated OK.

you should find the following information interesting
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/c_secondhand_cars.pdf

Firstly - that engine is scrap. Forget about putting a set of shells in, it's finished. The crank will be buggered, the oilways full of swarf and crap.

Assuming you repair it yourself, a good used engine is the only way to go - it's a double Vanos M52TU so you could even drop a 2.8 in there. You may want to get the car fixed and then sue the tw*t. The car is no use to anyone sat there for three months whilst the courts chase him.

taylor...my brother is a trading standards officer, he's helped my mates out loads....if you want to chat to somone, non offical to see where you stand..give me a buzz and ill pass your number on to him..

my pal bought a car few years ago...needed new bits...said they'd fit them...way home the exhuast fell of....two weeks later of aruging with the trader my mates wife called me...i gave her my bros number...the trader "collected" the car within a hour of getting of the phone to him and handed over a full refund......

if he can help he will......07871024596

I have a low milage 323 engine if its of interest.

Doesnt look like that car has had fresh oil for a few years

Thanks to everybody who has replied to this.

Dan you have a pm.



Went to see Trading Standards today and they say I have a very good case. They said that the trader has flaunted both civil law and criminal law and that it is illegal for him to sell cars "Sold As Seen". I have been advised to give my garage the go ahead to do some investigative work and make a statement reporting their findings and to quote an estimate for total cost of repair (either repair to engine or fitting new engine). It will probably be Monday/Tuesday before I know the situation from my garage. I will be spending some time over the weekend looking at replacement engine options as I think that is what is inevitably going to be required.



Taylor.

Hi Taylor, sorry to hear of your dilemma, I hope it all gets sorted.

One comment, slightly off topic, but I noticed you said you fitted LED rear lights to the coupe... I was just wondering if you had the encoded so the LSZ control unit knows it has LED rear lights and not standad bulb type lights. Its a required part of the retrofit and wasn't sure if you knew or not?

PS: I hope you skin this pr*ck for what he's done to you

stuartgallafant wrote:Hi Taylor, sorry to hear of your dilemma, I hope it all gets sorted.

One comment, slightly off topic, but I noticed you said you fitted LED rear lights to the coupe... I was just wondering if you had the encoded so the LSZ control unit knows it has LED rear lights and not standad bulb type lights. Its a required part of the retrofit and wasn't sure if you knew or not?

PS: I hope you skin this pr*ck for what he's done to you

Cheers mate! Don't worry - Trading Standards are gonna shaft him for it. Only downside is I have to pay out for the full repair cost for now and probably wait months to (hopefully, all going well) get the cost back.

Regarding the LED rears they are not genuine BMW ones - They have built in resistor packs so just plug and play.


P.S. My garage left me a message today to go in and see them but I didn't get it untill after closing time. Will be going in tomorrow to find out the situation. Will let you all know the score tommorrow.



Taylor.

This is a really shit drama mate good luck in sorting it out.

First of all, sorry to see this mess tbh!
This is just sad to read but it looks like UK and Sweden have the same laws about this big issue.
If you buy a car from a traider, they need to provide 3 months waranty on the car and cant sell it as "sold as seen" I hope you manage to get this sorted, and I hope the seller have burned his figers about this car!

I think a dealer can get away with selling a car for spares or repair. Whilst this E46 drama is just horrid, no trader can realistically guarantee a used car till the end of the road let alone 3 months. I wouldn't want to be selling used cars, too much aggro.

Andyboy wrote:...I wouldn't want to be selling used cars, too much aggro...

Definately

I was gonna buy a Renault Clio from my company we received as a trade in. Was a good price at £2600...

...but then, our scumbag dealer principle wants to add an "administration fee" of £250 PLUS it has to go through the workshop for a 'health check' at a cost of £100... AND they aren't even providing ANY sort warranty!!! The cheek of it!!

So a nice cheap little car is now just a normal priced car. I told them to stick it!

Right Guys, got an update today from my mechanic. No. 6 bearing shells are fubar and there is slight scoring on the crank which is enough to justify a re-grind. So crank would need to come out which means timing chain off which means cylinder head off. Labour costs alone mean that most economical option is a replacement engine.

They are going to supply me with estimates for both options (cost to repair existing engine and cost to fit a replacement engine). So I should have the estimates tomorrow and then I can go back in to trading standards to get the ball rolling on a claim.

I have also found a possible replacement engine.


Taylor.

stuartgallafant wrote:

Andyboy wrote:...I wouldn't want to be selling used cars, too much aggro...

Definately

I was gonna buy a Renault Clio from my company we received as a trade in. Was a good price at £2600...

...but then, our scumbag dealer principle wants to add an "administration fee" of £250 PLUS it has to go through the workshop for a 'health check' at a cost of £100... AND they aren't even providing ANY sort warranty!!! The cheek of it!!

So a nice cheap little car is now just a normal priced car. I told them to stick it!

You were going to spend your hard earned on a clio?!

bss325i wrote:

stuartgallafant wrote:

Andyboy wrote:...I wouldn't want to be selling used cars, too much aggro...

Definately

I was gonna buy a Renault Clio from my company we received as a trade in. Was a good price at £2600...

...but then, our scumbag dealer principle wants to add an "administration fee" of £250 PLUS it has to go through the workshop for a 'health check' at a cost of £100... AND they aren't even providing ANY sort warranty!!! The cheek of it!!

So a nice cheap little car is now just a normal priced car. I told them to stick it!

You were going to spend your hard earned on a clio?!

Don't knock em, cheap and fun, I've had 4 of the things! Rolled one up the M4 and came out without a scratch too. I think mine were rare in that I never put halfrauds special 'lexus lights' and 4" tailpipes on any of them.

Stuart, what's the crack with that then? Not exactly offering you a perk then!

Sorry to hear about this, i hope you get the guy nailed for this and for the cost of that hire car you had to get

I have only tried to rebuild one M52 engine back when i did it for a living and it pulled the first head bolt thread straight out, the boss told me to do the rest (for reasons best known to himself, he was a prat!) and all but 1 pulled.

I would go for the replacement lump based on that alone, those alloy blocks are made as lightweight as possible and it's not always a good thing.

Just bought this -

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :IT&ih=012



Does anybody know if the exhaust manifold on a 325Ci is the same as a 323Ci?



Taylor.

bss325i wrote:

stuartgallafant wrote:

Andyboy wrote:...I wouldn't want to be selling used cars, too much aggro...

Definately

I was gonna buy a Renault Clio from my company we received as a trade in. Was a good price at £2600...

...but then, our scumbag dealer principle wants to add an "administration fee" of £250 PLUS it has to go through the workshop for a 'health check' at a cost of £100... AND they aren't even providing ANY sort warranty!!! The cheek of it!!

So a nice cheap little car is now just a normal priced car. I told them to stick it!

You were going to spend your hard earned on a clio?!

Taylor325i wrote:Just bought this -

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :IT&ih=012



Does anybody know if the exhaust manifold on a 325Ci is the same as a 323Ci?



Taylor.

Why did you buy that?

march109 wrote:

Taylor325i wrote:Just bought this -

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :IT&ih=012



Does anybody know if the exhaust manifold on a 325Ci is the same as a 323Ci?



Taylor.

Why did you buy that?

Because I need a replacement engine.



Taylor.

djk wrote:

bss325i wrote:

stuartgallafant wrote: Definately

I was gonna buy a Renault Clio from my company we received as a trade in. Was a good price at £2600...

...but then, our scumbag dealer principle wants to add an "administration fee" of £250 PLUS it has to go through the workshop for a 'health check' at a cost of £100... AND they aren't even providing ANY sort warranty!!! The cheek of it!!

So a nice cheap little car is now just a normal priced car. I told them to stick it!

You were going to spend your hard earned on a clio?!

Don't knock em, cheap and fun, I've had 4 of the things! Rolled one up the M4 and came out without a scratch too. I think mine were rare in that I never put halfrauds special 'lexus lights' and 4" tailpipes on any of them.

Stuart, what's the crack with that then? Not exactly offering you a perk then!

No mate, not a perk at all! SO much so, that one of the parts guys went to a rival dealership and got a better deal!!

And its not for me, its for the missus!

got a double 323 engine out of a 2001 model if any good to you?

badboy007 wrote:got a double 323 engine out of a 2001 model if any good to you?

Thanks for the offer mate but I've bought an engine from a 325Ci which is being delivered on Monday.



Taylor.

Taylor325i wrote:

badboy007 wrote:got a double 323 engine out of a 2001 model if any good to you?

Thanks for the offer mate but I've bought an engine from a 325Ci which is being delivered on Monday.



Taylor.

Excuse me for saying this taylor but I think your taking a HUGE risk on this. If that ebay lump turns out to be scrap then you'll be fighting 2 people and the original garage won't refund any costs you've outlayed for scrap. Remember you have a good case here and the law is on your side. You are quite within your right to demand a "Gauranteed" replacement is fitted.

The best move for you would (IMO) to have let the garage that has investigated the work, source and fit the new lump. They are then liable for all work. All costs can then be recovered either by the seller for the replacement and sourcing of an engine OR by the fitting garage if the replacement is also scrap.

Buying an unknown quantity from ebay with effectively no warranty, from a seller with 97% feedback is madness IMO.

Good luck though, hope it works out for you

casper8r wrote:If he is a registered trader "sold as seen" shouldn't hold in court as the car has to be fit for purpose.

I'd see consumer advice bureau (is that what it's called? CAB?) to see what options you have. Nail the lying bastard to a wall but remember - your goal is not to get revenge, it's to get money from them

Spot on!

Good luck with this mate...sue the f**ker and nail him to the wall....

...and possibly drop in a 2.8 M52TU...